# How bizarre does the westernized Arabian Nights genre look to middle-easterners? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 18, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bizarre-does-the-westernized-arabian-nights-genre-look-to-middle-easterners/493563 "2009-04-18T20:50:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bizarre-does-the-westernized-arabian-nights-genre-look-to-middle-easterners/493563/1 "2009-04-18T20:50:54Z")
Maybe Paul in Qatar or others could give us an answer. It started with Arabic folktales, which were then translated and collected by nineteenth century western authors such as Sir Richard Burton. In the twentieth century Hollywood got into the act and produced movies based on the adventures of Sindbad, Alladin, and Ali Baba, all of which in typical American fashion became cliches. By now the entire trope is self-referentially deconstructed, giving us such things as Disney’s animated Aladdin. I was wondering just how bizarre this must look to actual middle-eastern peoples, and I have no idea how I would explain the opening theme song of Disney’s Aladdin to an inhabitant of modern day Baghdad. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bizarre-does-the-westernized-arabian-nights-genre-look-to-middle-easterners/493563/2 "2009-04-19T06:47:36Z")
How have the Ray Harryhausen films done in that area? ---
**Author:** ![RachelChristine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@RachelChristine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RachelChristine)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bizarre-does-the-westernized-arabian-nights-genre-look-to-middle-easterners/493563/3 "2009-04-19T16:14:17Z")
Interesting question. I’ve been wanting to read Arabian Nights, because I never have. I just don’t know what translation to get… Any suggestions? ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bizarre-does-the-westernized-arabian-nights-genre-look-to-middle-easterners/493563/4 "2009-04-19T17:41:24Z")
According to Brewers Dictionary of Phrase and Fable both Alladin and Sinbad may have been written by an early French translator. You gotta wonder how mid-easteners feel about it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bizarre-does-the-westernized-arabian-nights-genre-look-to-middle-easterners/493563/5 "2009-04-20T04:57:16Z")
I have a faint memory that the Alladin story was actually a later period addition, from an Indian source. Anyway, I rather like the _The Arabian Nights_, translated by Husain Haddawy, based on the text of the 14th-century Syrian manuscript edited by Muhsin Mahdi (ISBN 0-679-41338-3). ---
**Author:** ![mshar253](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@mshar253](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mshar253)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bizarre-does-the-westernized-arabian-nights-genre-look-to-middle-easterners/493563/6 "2009-04-20T05:00:19Z")
> [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](#): > > I have a faint memory that the Alladin story was actually a later period addition, from an Indian source. Anyway, I rather like the _The Arabian Nights_, translated by Husain Haddawy, based on the text of the 14th-century Syrian manuscript edited by Muhsin Mahdi (ISBN 0-679-41338-3). We had to read different parts of that, translated by Haddawy, for my World Lit course in the past month. I enjoyed it very much, and I intend to read it in its entirety over the summer. If anyone who hasn’t read it is expecting it to be like a Disney movie … it isn’t. It’s very raunchy and violent, and, if you’re a man who already have trust issues with women, this certainly isn’t a book you should be reading, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bizarre-does-the-westernized-arabian-nights-genre-look-to-middle-easterners/493563/7 "2009-04-20T05:18:56Z")
Um, yes. Quite. Thank you **mshar253** for the warning. I should have thought of that. Don’t read it if you have very delicate sensibilities. The 14th century may not have been the great age of subtlety. That aside, I loved it. Sure it’s got a lot of sex and violence, but it talks about _food_! ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bizarre-does-the-westernized-arabian-nights-genre-look-to-middle-easterners/493563/8 "2009-04-20T06:02:56Z")
I have [this version](http://www.amazon.com/Book-Thousand-Nights-One-Night/dp/0415045436/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240206972&sr=8-1) which is, as you might be able to tell from the title, “A Thousand Nights and One Night”, a very literal and complete translation. The books are horribly misogynistic, hedonistic, and down-right sociopathic so-far as a modern-day American would view it. “The great hero Alawalla encountered a man and his family. But the man had cut himself and spilled blood upon the path that Alawalla was to cross. Knowing this for the curse it would be, Alawalla slayed the man, saving his testicles to sell at the market, taking his children as slaves after many lashings until their tongues were still, and took the dead man’s wife to his bed many times. Sing the praise of Alawalla, for he is wise!” (Repeat such minor encounters for 2000 pages) :eek: I actually read, in total, probably about a quarter of the stories. You just can’t root for the good guy to win when pretty much everything he does is amoral, so reading through them all is pretty much just a chore. But no idea whether modern day Arabs read the Thousand and One nights. They might not. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bizarre-does-the-westernized-arabian-nights-genre-look-to-middle-easterners/493563/9 "2009-04-20T06:54:56Z")
I was under the impression that most of the Arab world didn’t really view that the _Thousand and One Tales_ as an important part of their literary traditions. Is this impression correct or was a I led astray? Odesio ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bizarre-does-the-westernized-arabian-nights-genre-look-to-middle-easterners/493563/10 "2009-04-20T11:31:18Z")
I remember, as a child, being surprised to find out that Baghdad is a real city; I thought it was a made-up fairy-tale place. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bizarre-does-the-westernized-arabian-nights-genre-look-to-middle-easterners/493563/11 "2009-04-20T11:46:08Z")
**Alf Layla Wa Layla** could be called a veritable “Bazaar of the Bizarre” (to steal a phrase from Fritz Leiber). [Encyclopedia Iranica](http://www.iranica.com/newsite/index.isc?Article=http://www.iranica.com/newsite/articles/v1f8/v1f8a035.html) explains the very mixed origins of the tales–often scorned by serious Arab “men of letters” but popular in the bazaars. And views their their long evolution in the West with what seems like pride. > [@](#): > > Apart from the few tales used by novelists, poets, musicians, or script writers, the prologue of the Thousand and One Nights has exercised the greatest influence on occidental culture and through it on contemporary Arabic literature, which has sought in it a source of inspiration truly Arabic, even though the protagonists bear Persian names. Such exploitation is an indirect tribute to the Indo-Persian storytellers who provided the foundation for a monument long disdained by the Arabs and then revealed to the world by a West that has not yet finished taking delight in it. The [Journal of 1000 Nights](http://journalofthenights.blogspot.com/) reveals more treasures. Radio Cairo has broadcast plays from the Tales. [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_One_Thousand_and_One_Nights) indicates Bollywood has used some of the plots. The marvelous anthology remains a valuable resource for scholars and creators of popular entertainment. In many parts of the world. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bizarre-does-the-westernized-arabian-nights-genre-look-to-middle-easterners/493563/12 "2009-04-20T16:55:26Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > I remember, as a child, being surprised to find out that Baghdad is a real city; I thought it was a made-up fairy-tale place. If you do not shudder at the idea of reading comic books, please find and read Fables and Reflections (1993) by Neil Gaiman. It’s part of the Sandman series. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bizarre-does-the-westernized-arabian-nights-genre-look-to-middle-easterners/493563/13 "2009-04-20T17:11:07Z")
> [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](#): > > If you do not shudder at the idea of reading comic books, please find and read Fables and Reflections (1993) by Neil Gaiman. It’s part of the Sandman series. I was going to say the same thing. The story you’re referencing is a great piece. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bizarre-does-the-westernized-arabian-nights-genre-look-to-middle-easterners/493563/14 "2009-04-20T21:55:53Z")
> [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](#): > > If you do not shudder at the idea of reading comic books, please find and read Fables and Reflections (1993) by Neil Gaiman. It’s part of the Sandman series. I’ve seen references to the Sandman books for years, but haven’t gotten a chance to read them. Can _Fables and Reflections_ be read on its own? ---
**Author:** ![Asylum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@Asylum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asylum)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bizarre-does-the-westernized-arabian-nights-genre-look-to-middle-easterners/493563/15 "2009-04-20T22:11:19Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > I’ve seen references to the Sandman books for years, but haven’t gotten a chance to read them. Can _Fables and Reflections_ be read on its own? Yes, as long as you know that Morpheus (the Sandman) is lord of dreams and stories. It works as part of and develops the larger work, but it’s mostly stand alone stories, and “Ramadan” (the Baghdad story) is one of the better ones.