# How 'bout we condemn the BOTH Arabs and Israelis! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 2, 2002, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bout-we-condemn-the-both-arabs-and-israelis/101307 "2002-04-02T00:53:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bout-we-condemn-the-both-arabs-and-israelis/101307/161 "2002-04-11T17:34:44Z")
My previous post, in which I anticipated something like Armageddon if the Israeli incursion into the West Bank were not resolved within 48 hours from this past Tuesday, was clearly over the top. However, I am not at all sure that the Arab States will quietly stand by and allow the eradication of the semblance or prospect of a Palestinian State. There may not be tanks over the border or the old Jordanian Legion mounting a frontal camel-cavalry charge, but the Arab oil producing state can surely figure out something that will make Sharon’s government regret this thing. The irony is that Israeli tanks and personnel carriers are probably running on Arab oil. As to Israeli intentions toward the West Bank, it is worth noting that the Israeli occupation has been going on for 35 years now. In that time there have been any number of schemes and devices for an Israeli pull out from the West Bank and Gaza and the establishment of an independent Palestinian State that have been frustrated one way or another. In the mean time there has been continued plantation of Jewish settlements and continued measures that serve to make Palestinians realize that Israel is going to call the shots whether Palestinians like it or not and that there will be no Palestinian return to confiscated lands in Israel. Talking has gotten the Palestinians very little that is not subject to summary take back by Israel. Every Jewish settlement is one more reason for an Israeli government to find a real pull back from the West Bank politically inexpedient. I can certainly think that an otherwise rational and reasonable Palestinian would conclude that the only way Israel will pull out is if the cost of a continued occupation is more than Israel is willing to pay. At that point the “I regret that I have but one life to give for my country” mindset tends to take over. Is it my imagination, or have Israeli objective expanded? It seem to me that we started off with an expressed objective of isolating Arafat and the PA, which became the destruction of the infrastructure of terrorism (what ever that means) to the destruction of the Palestinian militia (what ever that is). Is this the same as making the continued presence of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza untenable? Is that the real objective—to force the Palestinians out and turn at least the West Bank into some sort of border march with the settlement as outposts? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bout-we-condemn-the-both-arabs-and-israelis/101307/162 "2002-04-11T21:04:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > _If_ an Israeli sniper > – intentionally shot this person (i.e., it wasn’t just a stray bullet), Considering that witnesses said that the same gunman was also sniping at hospital and ambulance workers who tried to save the woman, I think it’s pretty dang intentional. > [@](#): > > – knowing that she was a civilian, “Looks like some old grandmother hobbling on a cane.” “Are you nuts? It’s OBVIOUSLY a cleverly-disguised suicide bomber with a rifle! Shoot her!” > [@](#): > > – for the purpose of terrorizing the populace, I suppose the gunman _could_ have been bored… > [@](#): > > Assuming the story is true (and it was widely reported), I tend to believe the first condition, although I haven’t seen it confirmed. The _Los Angeles Times_ is not infamous for tabloid journalism, last I looked. And since they had names and witnesses, I think the veracity of the story could be verified if one were to make an attempt. > [@](#): > > So, **rjung** , what evidence or cites do you have as to the intent of the sniper and the reason for the shooting? Gosh durn it, **december,** I’m just a no-nonsense kinda guy who thinks that shooting _anyone_ hobbling on a cane outside of a hospital when there isn’t a firefight going on is either (a)reprehensible, (b)terrorizing, or ©both. But since you’re obviously considering yourself to be so infinitely wiser, perhaps you can tell me several situations where the afformentioned sniping would be acceptable? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bout-we-condemn-the-both-arabs-and-israelis/101307/163 "2002-04-11T22:40:50Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by rjung \* > Gosh durn it, **december,** I’m just a no-nonsense kinda guy who thinks that shooting anyone hobbling on a cane outside of a hospital when there isn’t a firefight going on is either (a)reprehensible, (b)terrorizing, or ©both._\* I agree. Your formulation also demonstrates the difference in a nutshell. An official policy of intentionally bombing large numbers of random civilians during a time of peace is _definitely_ **©both.** ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bout-we-condemn-the-both-arabs-and-israelis/101307/164 "2002-04-12T07:55:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > Your formulation also demonstrates the difference in a nutshell. An official policy of intentionally bombing large numbers of random civilians during a time of peace is _definitely_ **©both.** And that’s why (as I said earlier in this thread) that **both** the Israelis **and the Palestinians** are a bunch of flamin’ nutballs that need to get pimp-smacked. HARD. I hate 16-year-old girls who blow themselves up in crowded malls. I hate snipers who gun down crippled grannies outside of hospitals. You seem to be still clinging to the simple-minded assertion that one has to support either the Israelis or the Palestinians. When will you get it through your head that there are folks who are sick of the atrocities from _both_ sides? See the title of this thread if you need a reminder. Just because George W. Bush reduces the world to black-and-white terms doesn’t mean the world is obligated to comply. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bout-we-condemn-the-both-arabs-and-israelis/101307/165 "2002-04-16T22:46:29Z")
Good news. Tom Toles presents the answer to our current troubles in the Middle East in today’s cartoon. [http://www.ucomics.com/tomtoles/](http://www.ucomics.com/tomtoles/) Moving on to other issues, what about that UN? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dev\_Null](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@Dev\_Null](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dev_Null)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bout-we-condemn-the-both-arabs-and-israelis/101307/166 "2002-04-17T13:02:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GaWd \* > \*\* > > With what, exactly? It’s a war, ya fucking mook. Atrocities happen. 2 groups of people capping each other off. It’s All fucking heinous. > > Sam \*\* Aha. I confused your position with Sam Stone’s. I.e, Sam doesn’t seem to feel that both sides should be condemned. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bout-we-condemn-the-both-arabs-and-israelis/101307.md?page=8)