# How Can 59,054,087 People Be So Dumb? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 4, 2004, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-59-054-087-people-be-so-dumb/272995 "2004-11-04T17:09:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Exgineer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-59-054-087-people-be-so-dumb/272995/101 "2004-11-04T20:52:56Z")
Sorry, **gobear** , I didn’t see your post until I hit “reply.” Put that way, I have no problem with it at all. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-59-054-087-people-be-so-dumb/272995/102 "2004-11-04T20:56:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Don’t get me wrong – I’m not sitting here choking back tears at you lumping me in with 59,054,086 other people that you call dumb. But that attack is symptomatic of what drove me crazy these past five years here on the board: that if a political view doesn’t match yours, it’s dumb. It’s NOT, necessarily. It is different. Calling it dumb is both wrong and a practical error in strategy, as has been demonstrated. So calling those with different political views a “[bleating herd](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5046890&postcount=11)” would be out of line then? Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![SaxFace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@SaxFace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaxFace)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-59-054-087-people-be-so-dumb/272995/103 "2004-11-04T21:01:24Z")
And another. Here’s a photo of a French magazine cover: [![](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/Saxface/DSC00263.jpg) ](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/Saxface/DSC00263.jpg) That’s a giant poster hanging in the window of the bar on the corner. Gave me a good chuckle. Note: “Putain” is an expletive meaning “fuck”. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-59-054-087-people-be-so-dumb/272995/104 "2004-11-04T21:03:48Z")
Then I was obviously wrong in my interpretation of **gobear** ’s posts and I humbly apologize. However, if conservatives all of a sudden started sounding exactly like the liberals, I’d wonder what their true agenda was or when the other shoe would drop because I must be missing something. But that’s just me and maybe I’m too cynical in my old age (or perhaps, just in the last couple of days). Sorry **gobear**. I didn’t mean to make you defend yourself. If reframing is all that’s being done, than it’s up to each individual voter to inform themselves and live with their conscience over it’s decision. Oh, and I thank **Exgineer** and **Lord Ashtar** for answering my question. I was beginning to feel like the invisable poster today. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-59-054-087-people-be-so-dumb/272995/105 "2004-11-04T21:04:35Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > So calling those with different political views a “[bleating herd](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5046890&postcount=11)” would be out of line then? Looks like you missed this month’s issue of the [Sacred Leftist Screed](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=284650), Steven. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-59-054-087-people-be-so-dumb/272995/106 "2004-11-04T21:06:47Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > So calling those with different political views a “[bleating herd](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5046890&postcount=11)” would be out of line then? Not that **Bricker** needs me to defend him, but it seems obvious to me that he was referring to a small sample of SDMB posters. It doesn’t seem to me to have anything to do with their political ideology. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-59-054-087-people-be-so-dumb/272995/107 "2004-11-04T21:13:33Z")
Great headline. It is the same question all of my friends in Las Vegas, Chicago, LA, NY and Berlin have been asking. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-59-054-087-people-be-so-dumb/272995/108 "2004-11-04T21:15:29Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > So calling those with different political views a “[bleating herd](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5046890&postcount=11)” would be out of line then? It would be ABSOLUTELY out of line, yes. Why do you ask? That’s not what I did in the post you linked to. There, I said: > [@Bricker](#): > > If I were a psychic, and claimed a “success” for this prediction,Id be laughed out of these boards. The OP says, in effect, “Yep - right on schedule – another terror warning, just as I thought.” > > Congratulations on correctly predicting the issuance of another warning after it happened, and using language that suggests it was obvious to you ahead of time – the obvious inference being that its timing is a matter of politics and propaganda, rather than actual intelligence information. > > Of course, the usual bleatng herd has chimed in to agree. This is not castigating people for their differing political opinions. This is castigating people for their participation in the dishonest rhetoric of waiting until an event has occurred and THEN announcing that they knew it all along. I did not – and don’t – insult people for disagreeing with the administration, the war, or the political manuevering. But I can, did, and do insult them when they seek credibility by announcing they “knew it all along” AFTER THE EVENT HAS HAPPENED. In fact, it was just this attiitude that led me to be so vocal, ahead of time, about my own predictions. I didn’t want to come in here after Bush won and scream about how I knew it all along, unless I had actually laid it on the line ahead of time. I’m glad you linked to this thread. I have been meaning to dig it up and explore the predictions that people made there, after I forced them to make predictions ahead of time and be judged on them, instead of announcing after the fact that such-and-so event was “right on schedule” and they knew it all the time. Such people are not simply expressing differing opinions - they are being deceitful about what they “knew” and when they knew it. For that – yes, they get “bleating herd.” Distinction clear? - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-59-054-087-people-be-so-dumb/272995/109 "2004-11-04T21:16:02Z")
> [@El Cid Viscoso](#): > > PS to Diogenes: it’s all fine and well to harp on about the stupidity of our president. It’s his job, after all, to absorb these kinds of insults. But when you use Britain’s cheesecake answer to _The National Enquirer_ to insult a majority of America, you’ve gone too far. > > Step back from this for a second. Do you really think it’s right for you to attack and insult a vast number of your fellow countrymen? Is this action going to do any good at all? Gotta agree with that sentiment. If the opposition is as smart as it fancies itself to be, why didn’t they win? And frankly, Dio, if you live in Minnesota — I mean, deliberately — you got no room to call other people dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Roseworm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@Roseworm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roseworm)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-59-054-087-people-be-so-dumb/272995/110 "2004-11-04T21:19:57Z")
All the pundits and self-styled political experts got blind-sided on election night. The critical issue turned out to be, not the economy, not the war and foreign policy, but traditional values! And this crystallized around the issue of gay marriage. It is not an exaggeration to say that the Massachusetts Supreme Court (quite unwittingly) delivered the 2004 election to George W. Bush. And the Dems never saw it coming. But there were clear warning signs. During the Missouri referendum, 45% of the electorate turned out (as opposed to the normal 15%) and the voting was 70+% conservative. Earlier, Hollywood dismissed Mel Gibson’s \*The Passion of the Christ \* as a crazy vanity project. They were stunned when the film turned into a monster hit. Imagine that! American Christians actually turned out in droves to see a movie about Christ. Who’da thunk’it? It never occurred to Liberals that American Christians, starved after years of avoiding the immoral swill churned out by Hollywood, might actually embrace a film they could relate to. And Kerry’s clumsy and mean-spirited attempt to use Mary Cheney as a weapon against her own family and GWB backfired when people like James Dobson and Jerry Falwell rushed to Mary’s defense. Hate the sin, love the sinner. The point is, Liberals and Democrats and Hollywood-types simply do not understand Middle Americans and Evangelical Christians. This is because they do not _listen_ to them. All they do is talk down to them in that infuriating You-are-obviously-too-stupid-to-run-your-own-life-so-you-have-no-choice-but-to-vote-for-me-so-that-I-can-run-your-life-for-you way so typical of the Liberal elite. And then the honorable **Diogenes** weighs in. “How dare they vote for Bush? How can they be so stupid? Morons. Idiots. Knuckle-dragging inbred three-toed rednecks…” Ah, yes. How to win friends and influence people. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-59-054-087-people-be-so-dumb/272995/111 "2004-11-04T21:23:05Z")
> [@](#): > > _by This Year’s Model_ > > I might add that in my county Bush received just under 30% of the vote, yet if I used that to assert that the Republicans had nominated a wildy unpopular candidate, I would certainly, and properly, be called on it. Yes, but you’d be called on it because you’ve made an error in your reasoning. Mr Kerry isn’t seen as “widely unpopular” because voters in Ohio and Colorado were galvanized against him, he’s “widely unpopular” because a very big portion of our population is old enough to remember the Vietnam War. And of that group, at least half of them have an extreme, visceral reaction to Mr Kerry and his actions during and after the war. Simple as that. My neighborhood has more vets than Lee Marvin’s fan club. Mesa County is literally _swarming_ with veterans. And I’m sure results were similar down near Colorado Springs. It’s different in Denver – I know, I used to work there. It’s fairly far left, but it’s a tiny pocket in a big, red state. And before you say anything about the Senate and House races, the Salazars are a rational, experienced team. Their elections over Walcher and Coors show the informed nature of the average Colorado voter. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-59-054-087-people-be-so-dumb/272995/112 "2004-11-04T21:24:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Hey, **Dio** … > HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! > > I love it! Sure, he’s a dummy, and so are 59,054,087 Americans. All raving dupes, the lot of us. > > And yet… guess who’s appointing the next couple of SC justices? Ummm… would that be … Bush? Why, yes, it would! > > HAHAHAHAHA!!! > > Guess whose party picked up seats in the Senate, and deposed the Minority Leader? Um… let’s see… Bush’s? Why, yes! > > HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! > > Oh, and which party picked up seats in the House, as well? > > C’mon, you can guess. > > So… would you rather be the smart guys, the intelligentsia, the progressive, sensitive, New Age, enlightened party that has a steadily shrinking and one might even say largely irrelevant role in American politics in the next two years? Or would you rather be the dumb goofball idiot party that actually controls all three branches of American government? > > BWAHAHAHAHA!!! Keep posting how dumb we are, **Dio**. I enjoy laughing at each one of your desperate posts. You must be feeling especially generous, **Rick**. It should be 3, and maybe 4, SC Justices, and you forget to mention the 3 net Governorships that the Pubs picked up. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-59-054-087-people-be-so-dumb/272995/113 "2004-11-04T21:25:10Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Gotta agree with that sentiment. If the opposition is as smart as it fancies itself to be, why didn’t they win? And frankly, Dio, if you live in Minnesota — I mean, deliberately — you got no room to call other people dumb. That’s right. Living in Minnesota is dumb. There’s no buxom nordic women up here, no clean air, lots of traffic, no reason to come here, you guys can stay right where you are. Oh…and we voted for Kerry. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-59-054-087-people-be-so-dumb/272995/114 "2004-11-04T21:26:25Z")
> [@Sauron](#): > > You do understand that when this country was a mere 90 years old, it engaged in a war against itself? A war that was the single bloodiest conflict it has endured, either before or since? The harm that conflict did to the country has been repaired. If any of you truly believe the harm that one President could do to this country is greater than the Civil War … man, I just can’t understand that. I think you read WAY too much into my post. I have no doubt that the country will eventually get past this; that doesn’t change the fact that the issues here go beyond simple partisanship. And I _certainly_ never made any comparison to the Civil War. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-59-054-087-people-be-so-dumb/272995/115 "2004-11-04T21:27:09Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > You must be feeling especially generous, **Rick**. It should be 3, and maybe 4, SC Justices, and you forget to mention the 3 net Governorships that the Pubs picked up. 🙂 Rehnquist for sure, and probably O’Connor, but who else do you see leaving the bench? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-59-054-087-people-be-so-dumb/272995/116 "2004-11-04T21:27:11Z")
> [@Roseworm](#): > > The point is, Liberals and Democrats and Hollywood-types simply do not understand Middle Americans and Evangelical Christians. This is because they do not listen to them. All they do is talk down to them in that infuriating You-are-obviously-too-stupid-to-run-your-own-life-so-you-have-no-choice-but-to-vote-for-me-so-that-I-can-run-your-life-for-you way so typical of the Liberal elite. Yeah, it reminds me of a scene from _One Hour Photo_. Robin William’s disturbingly psychotic character is sitting in his car, observing through binoculars the family he has quietly stalked for years, when it suddenly dawns on him that he is not going to see the reactions that he had spent so much time manipulating. With irony to rival any line in any screenplay ever, he peers through their window as he whispers, exasperated, “Are these people _crazy_?!” ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-59-054-087-people-be-so-dumb/272995/117 "2004-11-04T21:30:34Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > That’s right. Living in Minnesota is dumb. There’s no buxom nordic women up here, no clean air, lots of traffic, no reason to come here, you guys can stay right where you are. Been there. Saw the mall. It’s where my wife used to live. And her mother (now in Phoenix). And our daughter (now in Kansas City). > [@](#): > > Oh…and we voted for Kerry. Cool. And how’d that work out for ya? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-59-054-087-people-be-so-dumb/272995/118 "2004-11-04T21:35:21Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Been there. Saw the mall. It’s where my wife used to live. And her mother (now in Phoenix). And our daughter (now in Kansas City). God, No fool like an old fool. I thought you were like 11. 14 _maybe_. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-59-054-087-people-be-so-dumb/272995/119 "2004-11-04T21:40:31Z")
> [@Roseworm](#): > > All the pundits and self-styled political experts got blind-sided on election night. The critical issue turned out to be, not the economy, not the war and foreign policy, but traditional values! And this crystallized around the issue of gay marriage. It is not an exaggeration to say that the Massachusetts Supreme Court (quite unwittingly) delivered the 2004 election to George W. Bush. > > And the Dems never saw it coming. But there were clear warning signs. During the Missouri referendum, 45% of the electorate turned out (as opposed to the normal 15%) and the voting was 70+% conservative. Who are you talking about? I never saw a single prominent Dem predict a Kerry victory. Everyone but everyone thought it would be close but that Bush had the edge. > [@](#): > > Earlier, Hollywood dismissed Mel Gibson’s \*The Passion of the Christ \* as a crazy vanity project. They were stunned when the film turned into a monster hit. Imagine that! American Christians actually turned out in droves to see a movie about Christ. Who’da thunk’it?[/quoite] > Cite that they were “stunned?” I predicted it would be a big hit. When I first heard about the project, long before the controversey, I started a thread about it praising the concept. > > > [@](#): > > > > It never occurred to Liberals that American Christians, starved after years of avoiding the immoral swill churned out by Hollywood, might actually embrace a film they could relate to. > > Once again…cite? Who said it wouldn’t be a hit? > > > [@](#): > > > > And Kerry’s clumsy and mean-spirited attempt to use Mary Cheney as a weapon against her own family and GWB backfired when people like James Dobson and Jerry Falwell rushed to Mary’s defense. Hate the sin, love the sinner. > > What horseshit. There was nothing “vicious” about Kerry referring to Mary Cheney’s sexuality unless you think there’s something wrong with homosexuality. Mary Cheney is a gay rights activist, for fuck’s sake. And what did she need to be “defended” from, exactly? Who attacked her except the Republicans with their own bigoted amendment. > > One more thing, you do realize that Falwell saying “love the sinner” is in itself an insult, do you not? Mary Cheney is not a “sinner” after all. John Kerry said “she’s being who she is,” and Falwell called her a “sinner.” Who’s doing the attacking and who’s doing the defending there? > > > [@](#): > > > > The point is, Liberals and Democrats and Hollywood-types simply do not understand Middle Americans and Evangelical Christians. This is because they do not _listen_ to them. All they do is talk down to them in that infuriating You-are-obviously-too-stupid-to-run-your-own-life-so-you-have-no-choice-but-to-vote-for-me-so-that-I-can-run-your-life-for-you way so typical of the Liberal elite. > > Exactly how do “liberals, Democrats and Hollywood types” want to “run the lives” evangelical Christians? Please be specific. Have we tried to tell them who they can marry or that they have to send their children off to war? > > > [@](#): > > > > And then the honorable **Diogenes** weighs in. “How dare they vote for Bush? How can they be so stupid? Morons. Idiots. Knuckle-dragging inbred three-toed rednecks…” > > Well, can you deny it? > [@](#): > > Ah, yes. How to win friends and influence people. I’m not interested in winning friends, I’m interested in saving my country from itself. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-59-054-087-people-be-so-dumb/272995/120 "2004-11-04T21:42:25Z")
> [@sevastopol](#): > > I thought you were like 11. 14 _maybe_. Combine any other random thought you might have, and you’ll likely be twice as correct. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-59-054-087-people-be-so-dumb/272995.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-59-054-087-people-be-so-dumb/272995.md?page=7)