# How can a harbor pilot handle a ship they've never been on before? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 26, 2020, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-harbor-pilot-handle-a-ship-theyve-never-been-on-before/848534 "2020-02-26T04:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-harbor-pilot-handle-a-ship-theyve-never-been-on-before/848534/21 "2020-02-26T21:54:25Z")
> [@EdelweissPirate](#): > > I can think of many other examples, but you get the point. Do you now think that Irish pilot used “drive” this way, or am I off the mark? Your interpretation was my original thought, until I remembered (from where I don’t know) that pilots don’t actually take over for the helmsman. My understanding is that pilots are pretty much just consultants that the ship’s master or captain relies on for local knowledge. The master may brief the pilot on the ship’s maneuvering characteristics but it is ultimately the master’s knowledge that dictates how the ship moves. Where, when, and how fast are in the pilot’s wheelhouse (pun intended). ---
**Author:** ![bernardch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/34f0e0/32.png) [@bernardch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bernardch)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-harbor-pilot-handle-a-ship-theyve-never-been-on-before/848534/22 "2020-02-27T04:16:59Z")
One of the cruise discussion forums I frequent has several merchant Mariners, retired USCG officers, other deck officers and a proficient poster who is a chief engineer on a tanker, if I recall, and formerly an engineer on Norwegian Cruise Lines. When the subject of pilots comes up he will post that the pilot will advise, monitor and suggest, but only will assume the helm if invited by the captain to do so. Otherwise the captain or designated ship’s officer is at the helm. He further posts the only time a pilot will automatically assume the helm is during a Panama Canal transit. CB ---
**Author:** ![williambaskerville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f14d63/32.png) [@williambaskerville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/williambaskerville)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-harbor-pilot-handle-a-ship-theyve-never-been-on-before/848534/23 "2020-02-27T05:58:26Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > I was the guest in the house of a retired harbor pilot for Colb, Ireland. Colb, Ireland ? I’m guessing this was either Cobh or Cork ? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-harbor-pilot-handle-a-ship-theyve-never-been-on-before/848534/24 "2020-02-27T11:06:50Z")
> [@bernardch](#): > > …a proficient poster… :dubious: He was good at posting? Or did you maybe mean prolific? ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-harbor-pilot-handle-a-ship-theyve-never-been-on-before/848534/25 "2020-02-27T11:28:50Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > Here is a link about the Columbia River Bar Pilots. > > [https://www.columbiariverbarpilots.com/](https://www.columbiariverbarpilots.com/) > > The pilots have to transfer from the pilot boat to the larger ship out in the ocean, a very dangerous feat. Timing the grab to the ladder in less than perfect conditions, because the goods on the boat need to be delivered or picked up, you can’t wait for perfect. Old and out of shape doesn’t work. Sometimes they use the pilot boat, sometimes a helicopter. > > I thought those interested might like this. This bought back a memory of an old film I saw on TV a while ago. Set in the early 20th century, the coastguard does a daring rescue and crossing the ‘bar’ is a major feature. Can anyone else remember it? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-harbor-pilot-handle-a-ship-theyve-never-been-on-before/848534/26 "2020-02-27T12:17:57Z")
They don’t need to be familiar with each individual ship, only with a representative sample of ships. Get to know enough, and you can understand the ship you’re on by comparison with other ships you’ve been on that are similar in whatever the key traits are. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-harbor-pilot-handle-a-ship-theyve-never-been-on-before/848534/27 "2020-02-27T12:37:10Z")
> [@bernardch](#): > > He further posts the only time a pilot will automatically assume the helm is during a Panama Canal transit. This also happens when transiting the [Kiel Canal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiel_Canal). And typically, it isn’t the pilot - it’s the pilot’s assistant, known as a helmsman. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-harbor-pilot-handle-a-ship-theyve-never-been-on-before/848534/28 "2020-02-27T13:42:00Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > They don’t need to be familiar with each individual ship, only with a representative sample of ships. This. A ship’s handling qualities will vary with its size and loading, so a pilot will need experience with these. But the behavior of various ships of roughly the same size and loading will not vary wildly. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-harbor-pilot-handle-a-ship-theyve-never-been-on-before/848534/29 "2020-02-29T04:49:47Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > How on earth does anyone fall into that line of work? Is it mostly passed down, father to son or whatnot? Quite often it is a family history with the Merchant Marine. I am the son of a Marine Engineer and from him I heard stories about sailing and heard about the Maritime academy. But a few of my class mates took the entrance exam to the maritime academy in response to a radio advertisement. When the applied they did not know the difference between the engine department and the deck department. some of my class mates failed the exam to enter as a deck Midshipman and were asked if they wanted to become an engineer instead. I had several classmates with fathers as either deck or engineers, 1 the son of an ABS, one than on who parent worked or owned a ship yard. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-harbor-pilot-handle-a-ship-theyve-never-been-on-before/848534/30 "2020-02-29T05:00:35Z")
> [@dstarfire](#): > > Seen a few videos lately about ships pilots, or harbor pilots, or whatever youcall the guys that use their expert knowledge of the waterways in an area to help big ships navigate a particular port safely. > > I’m not understanding **how they actually direct the vessels** they’re guiding in. They’ll be on several different ships each day, each with different handling characteristics, limitations, and the like. There’s no way they can be as familiar with that ship as it’s captain. Even if the ship is being moved mostly by tugs, doesn’t the behavior vary from vessel to vessel (depending on draft, load, construction, etc.)? > > Logically, I’d expect them to advise the ships captain on where to maneuver and what to look for, but in most of the videos they’re actually directing the speed of the ship (possibly giving steering directions as well) or coordinating the tugs. The requirement for most pilots is 1st a Unlimited Masters license. Thorough knowledge of the waters they are piloting through. They are experienced in handling ships. They operate almost all the same. Larger will require larger turning circles, heaver longer stopping times. They are not operating the ship directly but giving orders to the crew. If the pilot is giving orders that are unsafe the Captain will override him. When they get to the bridge they will be informed of how many turns (RPM) the different bells will be and the corisponding speed will be. They will be informed of the type of engines and the difference between ahead and astern bells. They will also be given any other information about the ships handling necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-harbor-pilot-handle-a-ship-theyve-never-been-on-before/848534/31 "2020-02-29T05:06:23Z")
> [@EdelweissPirate](#): > > I’ve noticed that people with certain “impressive” credentials tend to describe their work in the most reductive terms possible. Your pilot-host might have been using “drive” in this sense. > > I work with a number of ex-USAF people, and one, a former fighter pilot, says he was a “Viper driver.” To me, this phrase exemplifies the laconic self-assurance stereotypically attributed to fighter pilots… In _The Perfect Storm_, Sebastian Junger wrote that the most a Coast Guard pararescue diver would say about a terrifyingly mountainous sea that he had to dive into _at night_ was that it was… “sporty.” That really stuck with me. Sporty! ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-harbor-pilot-handle-a-ship-theyve-never-been-on-before/848534/32 "2020-02-29T05:09:53Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > I asked this question a few years ago: > > [The career path of a container ship captain?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=741361) > > Short version: just like learning to fly large commercial aircraft, there are formal academies where you go to learn this stuff, followed by licensing, followed by working as an officer on a ship, and eventually (with enough training and relevant experience) getting promoted to the rank of Big Cheese. > > Not sure about harbor pilots, but I expect it’s not much different. There’s a good article about the Port Revel school [here.](https://books.google.com/books?id=yjAsSR-6DdwC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA43&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false) The fastest you can get to the big cheese in 6+years. 3 unlicensed, 1 as a 3rd, 1 as a 2nd, 1 as a 1st. 4 tests will have to be taken and passed before each of the officer levels. Each test harder than the one before. And the 3rds can take a week to take and pass. 3 Mate unlimited test has 7 sections, 3rd Assistant Engineer unlimited has 8 sections. ---
**Author:** ![dstarfire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dstarfire/32/5762_2.png) [@dstarfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dstarfire)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-harbor-pilot-handle-a-ship-theyve-never-been-on-before/848534/33 "2020-03-03T05:50:46Z")
> [@bernardch](#): > > When the subject of pilots comes up he will post that the pilot will advise, monitor and suggest, but only will assume the helm if invited by the captain to do so. Otherwise the captain or designated ship’s officer is at the helm. > > He further posts the only time a pilot will automatically assume the helm is during a Panama Canal transit. > > CB Okay, \*\*that \*\*makes perfect sense. Sort of like how the passenger in a car might help their out-of-town friend in the drivers seat. > [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > The requirement for most pilots is 1st a Unlimited Masters license. Thorough knowledge of the waters they are piloting through. They are experienced in handling ships. They operate almost all the same. Larger will require larger turning circles, heaver longer stopping times. They are not operating the ship directly but giving orders to the crew. If the pilot is giving orders that are unsafe the Captain will override him. When they get to the bridge they will be informed of how many turns (RPM) the different bells will be and the corisponding speed will be. They will be informed of the type of engines and the difference between ahead and astern bells. They will also be given any other information about the ships handling necessary. Thank you. That’s one of the things I’d expect to be quite different between even ships of the same/similar size. A container ship built for maximum cost efficiency won’t handle the same as one made to carry cargo that is fragile, large, and/or oddly-shaped. I know some ships (like some of the cheap-as-possible freighters) rely on a rudder and fixed props for manuevering while others have multiple steerable drive pods. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-harbor-pilot-handle-a-ship-theyve-never-been-on-before/848534/34 "2020-03-03T10:50:43Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > The traditional way is that your father tasks your nursery maid with arranging an apprenticeship for you with an existing pilot. Just make sure her hearing is good. > > Also, carefully read your apprenticeship papers if you happen to be born on February 29… Well, sure - but that doesn’t happen very often. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-harbor-pilot-handle-a-ship-theyve-never-been-on-before/848534.md?page=1)