# How Can A Loving God Allow Innocent People To Die? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 25, 2006, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-loving-god-allow-innocent-people-to-die/381755 "2006-11-25T17:29:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2006, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-loving-god-allow-innocent-people-to-die/381755/201 "2006-12-04T21:11:14Z")
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness] Uh, yeah they do–I guess you’ve never had hamsters for pets, or else you would have seen mother hamsters eating their babies for convenience. Mother rabbits spontaneously abort their fetuses if they think it’s going to be difficult to care for them. (Or, rather, if their bodies “think” that–it’s not a conscious choice, obviously). Nature’s not nice. Daniel [/QUOTE] Grizzly bears eat their young as well. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2006, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-loving-god-allow-innocent-people-to-die/381755/202 "2006-12-04T21:18:06Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Grizzly bears eat their young as well. [/QUOTE] I’m sure a lot of creatures do. There was a fantastic article in the godless New York Times recently about the vicious mothers in the animal kingdom, including one type of eagle who watches bored as some of her children peck her other children to death and then toss their bodies out of the eyrie, or something like that. It was creepy stuff. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![johnny\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@johnny\_M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnny_M)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-loving-god-allow-innocent-people-to-die/381755/203 "2006-12-15T01:30:22Z")
Sorry for the delay. It is finals week in school. I would like to thank everyone who commented on the forum, but mostly those who have just read the forum. I hope I have given you a way of thinking outside the normal realm of things and how I tried to relate things to events in todays world. Just two other comments I want to make. To non beleivers: You may not beleive in God but he beleive in you. He is also going to prove it to you. He is going to give you the same cross (or suffering) as he gave his son Jesus. When you receive this great gift how will you carry it? Will you carry it proudly fighting with everything in you to survive or are you going out on your belly? The best way of teaching is by example. So how are you going to teach your children that when things go bad you surrender or fight? Move to Oregon and be put to death through euthenasia, remember we live in america and have the right to choose, so choose. Also to non beleivers if you are correct and there is no God then we will all be in the same place anyway but if you are wrong and beleivers are right then you are in deep shit, huge problems. For beleivers our possiblites are endless yours are already written. There is still time to change your mind and that will continue until you take your last breath. Just love one another, help each other, and the world can be a better place. Once again thank you. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-loving-god-allow-innocent-people-to-die/381755/204 "2006-12-15T01:43:19Z")
[QUOTE=johnny M] He is also going to prove it to you. He is going to give you the same cross (or suffering) as he gave his son Jesus. [/quote] Damn, your imaginary friend sounds like a real asshole. [QUOTE=johnny M] When you receive this great gift how will you carry it? [/quote] So your particular branch of your religion is kinda like The Church of Stockholm Syndrome? [QUOTE=johnny M] Also to non beleivers if you are correct and there is no God then we will all be in the same place anyway but if you are wrong and beleivers are right then you are in deep shit, huge problems. [/quote] And yet, even you believers are in “deep shit” if any of the myriad of Gods you dismiss turn out to be real. You aren’t worried about offending Ahura Mazda, Zeus, Odin, or Osiris… are ya? Odd, that. Could it be that your argument is based on a massive dose of hypocrisy? Maybe others aren’t any more worried by your fear mongering than you are about Ahura or displeasing Mighty Typhonis? Although it’s awful cute that you think people should be terrified that your imaginary friend will kick their asses if they don’t worship him. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-loving-god-allow-innocent-people-to-die/381755/205 "2006-12-15T01:53:19Z")
[QUOTE=johnny M] ``` He is going to give you the same cross (or suffering) as he gave his son Jesus. When you receive this great gift how will you carry it? ``` [/QUOTE] I won’t carry it. I’ll just toss it back and say “nope. You were nasty enough to your kid. Why should I stand for that kind of treatment?” I realize you really believe all this, but let me ask you, why should anybody worship such a capricious, vicious, petty being? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-loving-god-allow-innocent-people-to-die/381755/206 "2006-12-15T02:16:04Z")
[QUOTE=johnny M] He is going to give you the same cross (or suffering) as he gave his son Jesus. [/QUOTE] How thoughtful! 1. Cut it up into thousands of little splinters. 2. Sell them to believers for $99 a pop. 3. Profit! ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-loving-god-allow-innocent-people-to-die/381755/207 "2006-12-15T02:34:41Z")
[QUOTE=johnny M] Sorry for the delay. It is finals week in school. I would like to thank everyone who commented on the forum, but mostly those who have just read the forum. I hope I have given you a way of thinking outside the normal realm of things and how I tried to relate things to events in todays world. Just two other comments I want to make. To non beleivers: You may not beleive in God but he beleive in you. He is also going to prove it to you. He is going to give you the same cross (or suffering) as he gave his son Jesus. When you receive this great gift how will you carry it? Will you carry it proudly fighting with everything in you to survive or are you going out on your belly? The best way of teaching is by example. So how are you going to teach your children that when things go bad you surrender or fight? Move to Oregon and be put to death through euthenasia, remember we live in america and have the right to choose, so choose. Also to non beleivers if you are correct and there is no God then we will all be in the same place anyway but if you are wrong and beleivers are right then you are in deep shit, huge problems. For beleivers our possiblites are endless yours are already written. There is still time to change your mind and that will continue until you take your last breath. Just love one another, help each other, and the world can be a better place. Once again thank you. [/QUOTE] Given the choice of “living” a miserable, pain-filled existence with endless IV tubes and no recognition of anyone I used to know, I’m thinking I’d choose that euthanasia option. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-loving-god-allow-innocent-people-to-die/381755/208 "2006-12-15T02:43:40Z")
Maybe there is a god. [QUOTE=johnny M] Also to non beleivers if you are correct and there is no God then we will all be in the same place anyway but if you are wrong and beleivers are right then you are in deep shit, huge problems. [/QUOTE] Clearly, by your logic, you will be eaten last. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-loving-god-allow-innocent-people-to-die/381755/209 "2006-12-15T03:56:52Z")
Which [reminds me…](http://youtube.com/watch?v=L1BkXy8JVP8) ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-loving-god-allow-innocent-people-to-die/381755/210 "2006-12-15T13:11:45Z")
[QUOTE=johnny M] ``` Just two other comments I want to make. To non beleivers: You may not beleive in God but he beleive in you. He is also going to prove it to you. He is going to give you the same cross (or suffering) as he gave his son Jesus. When you receive this great gift how will you carry it? Will you carry it proudly fighting with everything in you to survive or are you going out on your belly? The best way of teaching is by example. So how are you going to teach your children that when things go bad you surrender or fight? Move to Oregon and be put to death through euthenasia, remember we live in america and have the right to choose, so choose. ``` [/QUOTE] Actually, I live in Canada. “When you receive this great gift how will you carry it?” - being tortured is a gift? I wouldn’t want to be on your Christmas list! “…surrender or fight?” - are you suggesting that only christians fight against adversity? ---
**Author:** ![MovingTarget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/edb3f5/32.png) [@MovingTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovingTarget)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-loving-god-allow-innocent-people-to-die/381755/211 "2006-12-15T15:57:40Z")
I was raised to believe that god was a kind and merciful god. Then I did two things. I looked at the world around me, and I read the bible. These two things led me to the conclusion that the whole story is stupid and make believe. Nuff said. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-loving-god-allow-innocent-people-to-die/381755/212 "2006-12-15T16:25:17Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] Which [reminds me…](http://youtube.com/watch?v=L1BkXy8JVP8) [/QUOTE] I’m on dial up. What’s the video? ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-loving-god-allow-innocent-people-to-die/381755/213 "2006-12-15T16:39:58Z")
mu ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-loving-god-allow-innocent-people-to-die/381755/214 "2006-12-15T16:42:30Z")
[QUOTE=Sapo] mu [/QUOTE] Not mu, Ry’leh. Cthulhu dwells in Ry’leh. Yes- I’m aware of the proper answer to ‘do dogs meditate?’. But I think the Cthulhu response is funnier. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-loving-god-allow-innocent-people-to-die/381755/215 "2006-12-15T16:43:40Z")
[QUOTE=DocCathode] I’m on dial up. What’s the video? [/QUOTE] [Calls For Cthulu.](http://callsforcthulhu.blogspot.com/) Best bit of that episode IMO Caller: I’m flying! I’m really flying! My car is actually levitating over the traffic. Jesus Christ! Cthulu: WRONG. (sound of crashing car and car alarms) ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-loving-god-allow-innocent-people-to-die/381755/216 "2006-12-15T16:48:10Z")
If I want to call Cthulhu, I’ve got this fungoid amorphous cell phone. Yog Sothoth is the gate and the key to the gate. He is the All In One and One In All. He’s your secret to no roaming or long distance charges. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-loving-god-allow-innocent-people-to-die/381755/217 "2006-12-15T17:17:38Z")
[QUOTE=Snipe1978] I was raised to believe that god was a kind and merciful god. Then I did two things. I looked at the world around me, and I read the bible. These two things led me to the conclusion that the whole story is stupid and make believe. Nuff said. [/QUOTE] The OP asks how a "loving " god can allow, etc., etc. Even assuming that any being of that sort exists, all evidence that I see points to that being’s total indifference with regard to human affairs. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-loving-god-allow-innocent-people-to-die/381755/218 "2006-12-15T17:40:12Z")
Simplifying a previous answer to the OP, maybe a loving god somehow knows that it is better that these innocents die. Maybe our perception of their innocence is wrong. Maybe the good ones are rewarded with death and we bad ones are stuck here. Maybe “loving” doesn’t mean what we think it does. Everytime we talk about god, we are flatworms discussing quantum computing. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-loving-god-allow-innocent-people-to-die/381755/219 "2006-12-15T19:48:26Z")
[QUOTE=Sapo] Maybe “loving” doesn’t mean what we think it does. [/QUOTE] Yes, it does. It’s a human word defining a human concept. It means what we say it means. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-loving-god-allow-innocent-people-to-die/381755/220 "2006-12-15T23:55:49Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Yes, it does. It’s a human word defining a human concept. It means what we say it means. [/QUOTE] It means “emotional response”, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-loving-god-allow-innocent-people-to-die/381755.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-loving-god-allow-innocent-people-to-die/381755.md?page=12)