# How can a piece of wing drift on the water? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 6, 2015, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-piece-of-wing-drift-on-the-water/727190 "2015-08-06T20:39:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-piece-of-wing-drift-on-the-water/727190/21 "2015-08-07T11:46:10Z")
I wonder what can be inferred from the condition of the flaperon? Being more or less intact would suggest, to me, that the plane didn’t impact the water at high velocity in one piece, either it may had begun to disintegrate before hitting the water or it came down at a relatively low speed; then again the lack of debris would suggest the latter rather than the former. In any case, seeing the debris distribution simulation that has been shown regarding this finding I find it puzzling that more debris hasn’t been found in Australian coasts. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-piece-of-wing-drift-on-the-water/727190/22 "2015-08-07T12:59:21Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > … In any case, seeing the debris distribution simulation that has been shown regarding this finding I find it puzzling that more debris hasn’t been found in Australian coasts. IANA expert, but that part of Australia is pretty sparsely populated. It’s not like there are suburban beachcombers out every morning all along the western coast. Instead there are a couple bigish cities/towns, a handful of small villages, and a lot of nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-piece-of-wing-drift-on-the-water/727190/23 "2015-08-07T13:39:59Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > I wonder what can be inferred from the condition of the flaperon? > Being more or less intact would suggest, to me, that the plane didn’t impact the water at high velocity in one piece, either it may had begun to disintegrate before hitting the water or it came down at a relatively low speed; then again the lack of debris would suggest the latter rather than the former. I dunno, many airplane crashes, even on land, have pieces that are more or less intact. Air France 447 fell from 38,000ft but there was still large pieces to recover. It may be worth noting that AF447 fell at 120mph vertical speed, not 500mph that people might think when they think of an airplane crashing. And that was an out of control stall, the proverbial “falling like a rock” scenario. Planes still have wings that give a lot of air resistance during a free fall… The flaperon is also located at the back of the wing so when the plane hits, it might be protected somewhat but the wing. I’m no expert so take that for what it’s worth, but it doesn’t seem far fetched to me that part of the flaperon survived any kind of impact. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-piece-of-wing-drift-on-the-water/727190/24 "2015-08-07T14:17:25Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > A Volkswagen will definitely float. > A Volkswagen will not float indefinitely. Thanks. That would be good to know if one had been missing for a year then washed up onto Reunion Island. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-piece-of-wing-drift-on-the-water/727190/25 "2015-08-07T16:06:20Z")
So does this do anything to solve the mystery , besides confirm that the plane probably crashed into the Indian or Southern Oceans? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-piece-of-wing-drift-on-the-water/727190/26 "2015-08-07T16:18:33Z")
That is itself a step forward, given some of the conspiracy theories that were floating around… ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-piece-of-wing-drift-on-the-water/727190/27 "2015-08-07T16:20:14Z")
> [@andrewm](#): > > Weight alone isn’t relevant to floating. It’s the density (mass per volume) that matters. See, the problem with that is that it did float. For 550 days and probably 2000 miles. So the guys lifting that object says something about its weight as a “a big honkin’ chunk of metal.” ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-piece-of-wing-drift-on-the-water/727190/28 "2015-08-07T17:29:05Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > See, the problem with that is that it did float. For 550 days and probably 2000 miles. So the guys lifting that object says something about its weight as a “a big honkin’ chunk of metal.” I don’t understand this comment at all. Obviously if the density of object A is lower than object B but they’re the same size, then object A weighs less. But whether an object floats or not depends on the density, not the weight. A battleship floats and a penny doesn’t because the battleship is less dense, not because it weighs less. –Mark ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-piece-of-wing-drift-on-the-water/727190/29 "2015-08-07T17:29:14Z")
> [@campp](#): > > I thought Boeing had NO other missing craft with this design. They will also want to confirm that the part was actually installed on an airplane at the time it went into the water. (That is, make sure this is not a spare part that had not been installed yet, or a piece that flunked QA at the factory [in Bangalore, India], or one that had already been removed/replaced from a plane that is still in service.) It seems most likely that it’s from the missing plane (the Malaysians say it is now confirmed), but there are other sources for aircraft parts besides crashed aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-piece-of-wing-drift-on-the-water/727190/30 "2015-08-07T17:48:18Z")
Am I correct that if you set a 737 on the surface of a lake and were able to keep it from filling with water that it would probably float indefinitely? ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-piece-of-wing-drift-on-the-water/727190/31 "2015-08-07T18:05:50Z")
> [@Laggard](#): > > Am I correct that if you set a 737 on the surface of a lake and were able to keep it from filling with water that it would probably float indefinitely? Anything that floats is going to float indefinitely unless its density increases. The only way a plane’s density can increase is if external objects (eg. water) are added to it, or the size changes (eg. something crushes it). –Mark ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-piece-of-wing-drift-on-the-water/727190/32 "2015-08-07T18:31:03Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > A friend who’s an airline mechanic once told me that almost every part that goes into a modern airliner has a serial number on it. And they have to keep track of those for each plane, and when they replace a part, they update the records for that airframe. > > So I expect that if it’s a sizable part, it will be traceable to tht plane. My BIL has a business that makes new data plates for airplane parts that have been modified or repaired, so that the original plates are no longer valid. This stuff is rigorously controlled, both to help the investigations in case of crashes, as here, and to make sure that the parts are tightly quality controlled to try and prevent such a crash in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-piece-of-wing-drift-on-the-water/727190/33 "2015-08-07T21:51:00Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > I don’t understand this comment at all. Obviously if the density of object A is lower than object B but they’re the same size, then object A weighs less. But whether an object floats or not depends on the density, not the weight. A battleship floats and a penny doesn’t because the battleship is less dense, not because it weighs less. > > –Mark Kinda … The criteria is displacement actually. the weight of the water displaced by the boat must be the weight of the boat. So just as long as the boat is light enough that it keeps its water tight hull above water… The density of the boat and its load does not matter, only its weight… and the size of the water tight hull… The flaperon is sealed as it is in the line of the engine thrust and they don’t want it filling with soot/water/etc … The high pressure from the engine thrust would force stuff inside it if it wasn’t sealed. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-piece-of-wing-drift-on-the-water/727190/34 "2015-08-07T22:04:01Z")
> [@Laggard](#): > > Am I correct that if you set a 737 on the surface of a lake and were able to keep it from filling with water that it would probably float indefinitely? > [@markn\_1](#): > > Anything that floats is going to float indefinitely unless its density increases. The only way a plane’s density can increase is if external objects (eg. water) are added to it, or the size changes (eg. something crushes it). > > –Mark In the real world it’ll sink pretty quickly because it will begin to fill with water. Once enough water gets inside, it’ll sink just fine. Now if you want to wrap the whole thing in shrink-wrap or put it inside a big life raft to keep the water out, then it’ll float UFN. But that’s not a very sensible scenario. Said another way, I can’t really tell if your question is “Is an empty undamaged 737 less dense than water?” or “Is an empty undamaged 737 watertight AND less dense than water?” The answers to those questions are “Yes” and “No AND Yes -\> No” respectively. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-piece-of-wing-drift-on-the-water/727190/35 "2015-08-07T22:09:01Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > In the real world it’ll sink pretty quickly because it will begin to fill with water. **Laggard’s** question, which you quoted in your reply, was “Am I correct that if you set a 737 on the surface of a lake _ **and were able to keep it from filling with water** _ that it would probably float indefinitely?” –Mark ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-piece-of-wing-drift-on-the-water/727190/36 "2015-08-07T22:40:08Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > **Laggard’s** question, which you quoted in your reply, was “Am I correct that if you set a 737 on the surface of a lake _ **and were able to keep it from filling with water** _ that it would probably float indefinitely?” To be explicit: a sealed 737 is extremely buoyant. Look at the specs on [this page](http://www.b737.org.uk/techspecsdetailed.htm). Max takeoff weight of a 737-900 (to pick one) is 79 tons. If we consider _just_ the passenger and cargo volume, we get 108 m[sup]3[/sup] , which even in fresh water is 108 tons (more in salt water). Of course that’s a huge underestimate, since it excludes big chunks of the fuselage, the wings, etc.; and assumes we’re still at max takeoff weight. Even if you were able to land in one piece and seal every opening, the plane would break apart pretty quickly on the open ocean. It’s not designed for those kinds of forces. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-piece-of-wing-drift-on-the-water/727190/37 "2015-08-07T22:45:29Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Even if you were able to land in one piece and seal every opening, the plane would break apart pretty quickly on the open ocean. It’s not designed for those kinds of forces. Perhaps that’s why **Laggard** asked “Am I correct that if you set a 737 on the surface of a **lake** and were able to keep it from filling with water that it would probably float indefinitely?” ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-piece-of-wing-drift-on-the-water/727190/38 "2015-08-07T22:53:59Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > Perhaps that’s why **Laggard** asked “Am I correct that if you set a 737 on the surface of a **lake** and were able to keep it from filling with water that it would probably float indefinitely?” The Great Lakes easily get waves in the 15 foot range, and 20-30 ft aren’t unheard of. A 737 would rest comfortably on top of Lake Vostok for a long time, sealant or no. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-piece-of-wing-drift-on-the-water/727190/39 "2015-08-07T23:01:54Z")
True. The Edmund Fitzgerald was probably sunk by a rogue wave over 35 feet high. –Mark ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-piece-of-wing-drift-on-the-water/727190/40 "2015-08-08T01:05:59Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > Perhaps that’s why **Laggard** asked “Am I correct that if you set a 737 on the surface of a **lake** and were able to keep it from filling with water that it would probably float indefinitely?” I think my point was that a big chunk of metal as the OP called it can float and float quite well. A wing is mostly hollow. Seal it off and there should be no reason it won’t bob along in perpetuity. Assuming it doesn’t break apart. I said lake thinking of a more tranquil surface where the plane wouldn’t be subjected to 20 foot swells. Obviously though big lakes get big swells. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-piece-of-wing-drift-on-the-water/727190.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-piece-of-wing-drift-on-the-water/727190.md?page=3)