# How can a universe exist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 25, 2013, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-universe-exist/667110 "2013-08-25T06:18:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KR5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f05b48/32.png) [@KR5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KR5)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-universe-exist/667110/1 "2013-08-25T06:18:41Z")
For a universe to exist it must have a begining, maybe by a god or a natural event. But for either of those to have happened something must have created them. How can a god just happen how would it start to exist? Where would the matter come from for the natural event? I can’t fucking comprehend how I’m even alive right now, it makes absolutely no sense to me that I even exist. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-universe-exist/667110/2 "2013-08-25T06:23:38Z")
If a universe didn’t exist, there would be nobody wondering how a universe could exist. ---
**Author:** ![KR5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f05b48/32.png) [@KR5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KR5)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-universe-exist/667110/3 "2013-08-25T06:28:39Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > If a universe didn’t exist, there would be nobody wondering how a universe could exist. What are you talking about? I’m not questioning the existence of a universe. I’m questioning how a universe **can** exist. It’s obviously appearent that I exist I just can’t comprehend how. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-universe-exist/667110/4 "2013-08-25T06:57:54Z")
You can’t have _nothing_. It’s unstable. ---
**Author:** ![KR5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f05b48/32.png) [@KR5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KR5)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-universe-exist/667110/5 "2013-08-25T07:00:55Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > You can’t have _nothing_. It’s unstable. But if you have something then when did that something begin to exist? Unless you’re willing to argue that something doesn’t need a begining to start. Which seems like in illogical conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-universe-exist/667110/6 "2013-08-25T08:33:40Z")
> [@KR5](#): > > For a universe to exist it must have a begining, maybe by a god or a natural event. Why are you assuming that? > [@](#): > > But for either of those to have happened something must have created them. Why are you assuming that? > [@](#): > > How can a god just happen how would it start to exist? Where would the matter come from for the natural event? You’re assuming all sorts of things here. > [@](#): > > I can’t fucking comprehend how I’m even alive right now, it makes absolutely no sense to me that I even exist. Your own existence is one of the few logical axioms; you cannot deny or question your own existence. Ever hear of Descartes? ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-universe-exist/667110/7 "2013-08-25T09:47:18Z")
A quantum fluctuation in the nothing which preceded the Big Bang. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-universe-exist/667110/8 "2013-08-25T09:53:14Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Your own existence is one of the few logical axioms; you cannot deny or question your own existence. Ever hear of Descartes? But as the OP’s already explained, his question isn’t philosophical, it’s practical. He’s questioning _how_, not whether or why, the existence of the universe is possible. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-universe-exist/667110/9 "2013-08-25T09:57:40Z")
It’s possible because it’s possible. The universe is self-demonstrating. This does not imply a beginning, an end, a creation, nor a creator. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-universe-exist/667110/10 "2013-08-25T11:45:45Z")
Your question is framed within a paradigm of understanding that is obviously flawed, since the universe does exist. To date the typical cute answer from those who want to assert the need for a Prime Mover is that the existence of the universe within a spacetime framework mandates a first cause. Since a First Cause exists outside of natural law, this is another way of saying, “It’s magic.” The typical cute answer from a physicist might be that “nothing” is unstable and therefore something is inevitable–in our case, a big bang. Since “nothing” cannot have a quantum fluctuation nor any other attribute, this is another way of saying, “It’s magic.” In short, our paradigms result from observations and conclusions that are obviously not capable (at present) of containing the answer to your question: Why did the big bang happen? (Assuming the big bang paradigm itself holds up.) We are pretty confined to two difficult concepts: Before/After, and Because Of. We’ll probably need to fix those parts of our paradigm before we can answer your question. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-universe-exist/667110/11 "2013-08-25T12:30:34Z")
> [@KR5](#): > > For a universe to exist it must have a begining, maybe by a god or a natural event. But for either of those to have happened something must have created them. How can a god just happen how would it start to exist? Where would the matter come from for the natural event? I can’t fucking comprehend how I’m even alive right now, it makes absolutely no sense to me that I even exist. Need answers fast? Obviously you’re not the first nor last to ask this question and science has been working on finding the answers for quite some time now. There are threories and hypothesies and wild speculations from all sorts of people through time. And here’s the kicker… we may never really know. Can you be okay with that or are you worried it’ll be one of the questions on the SAT? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-universe-exist/667110/12 "2013-08-25T12:36:05Z")
Time is a part of the Universe, therefore, the concept of “before the Universe” is meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-universe-exist/667110/13 "2013-08-25T12:37:59Z")
It can’t. Happy now? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-universe-exist/667110/14 "2013-08-25T12:56:54Z")
What makes you think we’re capable of understanding the answer? Take, for instance, a dog. A dog has a certain amount of intelligence, and is capable of being taught to do some reasonably complex tasks. But no dog, no matter how hard you work with him, is ever going to understand simple algebra. They’re just not physically capable of grasping it. We like to think that humanity is qualitatively different from all other animals; that we’ve crossed some sort of threshold into consciousness, and that means that we are physically capable of understanding everything, even if we haven’t gotten there yet. But I don’t think the evidence supports that idea. As we look at the animal kingdom, intelligence seems to be a spectrum, and we’re merely at the far end of the Earth’s spectrum. How far that spectrum extends past us, and where on it we need to be to understand the universe are complete unknowns. To me, it seems like it would be a wild coincidence if we just happened to have ended up at the right point - that a level of intelligence evolved for surviving on the African savannah happened to also be sufficient for understanding the complexities of all of existence. But perhaps that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-universe-exist/667110/15 "2013-08-25T17:02:07Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > But no dog, no matter how hard you work with him, is ever going to understand simple algebra. They’re just not physically capable of grasping it. But long division and fractions are not out of the question? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-universe-exist/667110/16 "2013-08-25T17:28:02Z")
> [@KR5](#): > > For a universe to exist it must have a begining, maybe by a god or a natural event. But for either of those to have happened something must have created them. How can a god just happen how would it start to exist? Where would the matter come from for the natural event? The best answer is: We don’t know yet, but we’re trying to find out. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-universe-exist/667110/17 "2013-08-25T17:29:33Z")
Ken001 gave the right answer. We’re used to thinking that everything must come from somewhere. But at a really small level this isn’t true. Way down in the quantum realm, strange things (by our standards) happen. Things pop into existence from nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-universe-exist/667110/18 "2013-08-25T17:37:10Z")
It’s true that given the physical laws, the universe can spontaneously arise seemingly out of nothing. But why do we have the physical laws that we do? There have to be plenty of other sets of physical laws that could allow spontaneously-generating systems or, conversely, sets of physical laws in which nothing can exist, forever, stably. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-universe-exist/667110/19 "2013-08-25T17:39:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Time is a part of the Universe, therefore, the concept of “before the Universe” is meaningless. 😕 :eek: _BOOM_ ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-universe-exist/667110/20 "2013-08-25T17:41:19Z")
I sometimes wonder if major variations in physical laws are even possible, since an untold number of _other_ physical laws could be effected. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-a-universe-exist/667110.md?page=2)