# How can any member of the Senate not see the Capitol insurrection as a deeply personal attack? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 11, 2021, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-any-member-of-the-senate-not-see-the-capitol-insurrection-as-a-deeply-personal-attack/932706 "2021-02-11T19:49:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2021, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-any-member-of-the-senate-not-see-the-capitol-insurrection-as-a-deeply-personal-attack/932706/61 "2021-02-12T19:56:56Z")
> [@LivingGhost371](#): > > You do know it’s possible we can give all Americans jobs like back in the 1950s without reinstituting 1950s racism? Just slap enough tariffs on whoever so it’s cheaper to make iPhones in the United States, and watch the reason for the insurrection disappear. Except all Americans didn’t have jobs back in the 1950’s - half the adult population was expected to stay solely within the home providing free domestic, child, and elder care. In many areas a wife could not have a job outside the home without her husband’s permission. It being legal to pay women less added additional pressure to keep half the adults out of the job market. It screwed over any woman who didn’t have a husband for whatever reason, and if she had kids it screwed them over, too. > [@LivingGhost371](#): > > Also, I was actually in the position of “needing it” growing up, and we had to accept things like the government cheese and food. It was utterly humiliating and degrading, I felt like we had failed society, and I desperately prayed that no one at school would ever find out. I’m not going to dispute how you felt - how you felt is how you felt and there’s no arguing with that. However, when I was accepting government help (and yes, I too remember the cheese) I never felt that way. I did feel humiliated at a church-run food pantry once, but that’s why I never went back there. Other places were more interested in helping me than shaming me or converting me so I went there. I agree that kids can be little monsters, and often their parents aren’t any better. I wish our society would stop demonizing the poor. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2021, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-any-member-of-the-senate-not-see-the-capitol-insurrection-as-a-deeply-personal-attack/932706/62 "2021-02-12T20:14:30Z")
> [@LivingGhost371](#): > > I don’t recall Pearl Harbor being about Japan making hard working Americans angry, desperate and destitute by stealing their jobs. That is, of course, the complete opposite of what I said. I honestly don’t know where you got it. I invite any actual historian to clarify, but it’s my understanding that what drove Japan to war was the fact that the west (or maybe just the US) had instituted political policies that had the potential to hamstring Japan’s economy. This was an existential threat to Japan, and they reacted accordingly. You proposed that the US should impose policies with the deliberate intent of cutting off trade between the US and those other countries. This would of course _destroy_ the american middle and lower classes due to cutting off their access to numerous goods. But sure, okay, who cares about them. The point here is that other countries would likely see this as a hostile action, because it would be one. Now, admittedly, it’s a little unlikely that other countries would actually be existentially threatened by this - they’d probably just ramp down production a bit and focus on selling to other, non-american countries. The people existentially threatened would be middle and lower-class americans, and they don’t have an army. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2021, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-any-member-of-the-senate-not-see-the-capitol-insurrection-as-a-deeply-personal-attack/932706/63 "2021-02-12T20:19:44Z")
> [@LivingGhost371](#): > > You do know it’s possible we can give all Americans jobs like back in the 1950s without reinstituting 1950s racism? Just slap enough tariffs on whoever so it’s cheaper to make iPhones in the United States, and watch the reason for the insurrection disappear. Thanks for showing your ignorance of manufacturing. If someone forced iPhones and other such to be made in the US, they would be made in automated factories that would not employ that many people - and definitely not people who used to be coal miners. Manufacturing output has increased in the US, but not manufacturing jobs. And I’ve heard someone from a major electronics company say that they don’t automate their factories in SE Asia because the people are cheaper than the machines. Coal is dying. Even Trump’s subsidies didn’t help. That’s a good thing. I remember when the news each evening gave pollution reports. No longer. Coal doesn’t just make your windows dirty, it makes your lungs dirty, and that can and will kill you. That worth it to you? Let’s train the coal miners for good jobs in clean energy. Win win. Sounds to me like you want to force companies to set prices and hire people for your political goals. I might be wrong, but that sounds like socialism to me. You a socialist? Not that there’s anything wrong with it. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2021, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-any-member-of-the-senate-not-see-the-capitol-insurrection-as-a-deeply-personal-attack/932706/64 "2021-02-12T20:31:23Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Not that there’s anything wrong with it. I know our Soviet friends have for the past several decades enjoyed their guaranteed lifetime jobs in obsolescent industries producing low quality products for a market not subject to any kind of competition or change, all overseen by the cryogenically preserved corpse of Comrade Breznev. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2021, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-any-member-of-the-senate-not-see-the-capitol-insurrection-as-a-deeply-personal-attack/932706/65 "2021-02-12T20:37:26Z")
Whoosh ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2021, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-any-member-of-the-senate-not-see-the-capitol-insurrection-as-a-deeply-personal-attack/932706/66 "2021-02-12T20:45:43Z")
Oh, I got the joke. **LivingGhose371** doesn’t want a “handout”, but he does want an entitlement in the form of an economy that “the government” somehow guarantees will never change and in which everybody can make a middle class living whether what they do is of any economic value or market need, e.g. mining coal that nobody wants to burn, which is exactly what killed the Soviet Union, and pretty much every other planned economy that resisted technological and social change. It’s ironic that the people so opposed to a “welfare” society are the ones most willing to embrace it when it fits with their particular view of how the world should work, e.g. all of the billionaires and investment banks who are perfectly happy to accept government handouts in the form of a “bailout” or “stimulus” from an economic downturn that they created through unsustainable speculation and endless credit. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2021, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-any-member-of-the-senate-not-see-the-capitol-insurrection-as-a-deeply-personal-attack/932706/67 "2021-02-12T20:49:28Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > And I’ve heard someone from a major electronics company say that they don’t automate their factories in SE Asia because the people are cheaper than the machines. This part is worth hilighting. If the US decided to go completely protectionist, closing the ports and bombing incoming shipments of clothing and appliances at the border, the result wouldn’t be that all of the retirement-aged people would be hired back to work at a comfortable six-figure wage. What would actually happen is ~~society would collapse into anarchy long before enough factories got up and running~~ factories would either hire a relatively small number of experts (not 60-year-old miners), or would hire people at starvation wages the way Walmart and Amazon like to do. Honestly I’m not certain there _is_ a way to employ everyone to middle class levels, if “everyone” includes people who have no useful skills and refuse to accept training because it’s ‘shameful’. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2021, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-any-member-of-the-senate-not-see-the-capitol-insurrection-as-a-deeply-personal-attack/932706/68 "2021-02-12T20:56:39Z")
It was a joke because there is stuff wrong with some brands of socialism, like the old Russian brand. People on the right in the US who condemn socialism espoused by some in the left aren’t condemning that type - which practically no one supports - but the European variety. Which is less socialistic than the remedies our friend seems to be supporting. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2021, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-any-member-of-the-senate-not-see-the-capitol-insurrection-as-a-deeply-personal-attack/932706/69 "2021-02-12T21:15:17Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Even if some of them felt personally threatened and/or attacked, they don’t see it as trump’s fault. They do not connect the dots They all connect the dots. It’s just that almost no Republican can win without deplorable votes. > [@aceplace57](#): > > I kept waiting for the Republicans to speak up in December and affirm that Biden legitimately won and it was a fair election. Republican Leaders should have been on the Sunday news shows reassuring the public that the election results had been investigated by the AG and found to be legitimate. The mob probably wouldn’t have showed up on Jan 6. You’re joking, right? Anyone going on the Sunday news shows would’ve been branded a traitor by Trump. Their names would’ve been added to the list of people to hang on 1/6. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2021, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-any-member-of-the-senate-not-see-the-capitol-insurrection-as-a-deeply-personal-attack/932706/70 "2021-02-12T21:15:35Z")
Agreed; protectionist policies like tariffs and buffering obsolescent industries designed to prevent change or competition are the worst and ultimately most unworkable aspects of economic regulation and “socialist” policies. On the other hand, The “Nordic Model” of market socialism, comprehensive welfare assurance (health, education, unemployment, child care), and institutionalized support for collective labor bargaining that doesn’t just result in a cottage industry of “labor unions” that essentially exist to shake down employers and union members alike, has resulted in nations with economic health and prosperity indices—including innovation and enterprise, safety and security, and personal liberties—that are at the top of the heap in every category, notwithstanding the high general quality of life in such nations. They haven’t achieved this by mining coal and protecting polluting industries, of course; they’ve gotten their by enabling and stimulating innovation and assuring that their citizens aren’t exploited by shady short term creditors or constantly living in fear of being bankrupted by a normal medical treatment. “Socialism”, is of course the bogeyman that conservative pundits and politicians like to wave around even as they ensure that money and tax benefits flow freely to their billionaire supporters (and the same is true for many “moderate” Democrats whose major donors are investment banks and the insurance industry, among others), as if the horror of horrors would be a favorable comparison to Sweden or Denmark. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2021, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-any-member-of-the-senate-not-see-the-capitol-insurrection-as-a-deeply-personal-attack/932706/71 "2021-02-12T21:19:01Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > You’re joking, right? Anyone going on the Sunday news shows would’ve been branded a traitor by Trump. Their names would’ve been added to the list of people to hang on 1/6. I think you’re right. It makes me even more disgusted Mr T still wields political power. Somehow the Republicans have to discredit this guy. It’s scary to think he will run again and easily win the R primaries. There’s no R candidate that I currently see that could beat him. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2021, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-any-member-of-the-senate-not-see-the-capitol-insurrection-as-a-deeply-personal-attack/932706/72 "2021-02-12T22:01:55Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > It seems there are three kinds of Republicans: those who have at least a bit of honesty and vote to convict: those actually in favor of the insurrection; and those who know perfectly well that Trump is guilty, but are scared of being primaried. The last two will vote to acquit and Trump will go around proclaiming total exoneration. What everybody else that is not a Trumpican will think about those who will vote to exonerate: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/0wwc5fEa_uE/maxresdefault.jpg "Trump Impeachment Trial told through political cartoons") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wwc5fEa_uE) (Just the first cartoon/tumbnail is needed, no need to play the video for the other cartoons) ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2021, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-any-member-of-the-senate-not-see-the-capitol-insurrection-as-a-deeply-personal-attack/932706/73 "2021-02-12T23:51:30Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > point at those 60 year olds and say “All the competition is gone! Now go forth and make IPhones!” Yeah, there’s something odd about the people who say it’s ridiculous to make coal miners “learn to code”, but seem to think, “Go make iPhones!” is a reasonable solution. ---
**Author:** ![LivingGhost371](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b9e5f3/32.png) [@LivingGhost371](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LivingGhost371)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-any-member-of-the-senate-not-see-the-capitol-insurrection-as-a-deeply-personal-attack/932706/74 "2021-02-13T00:09:54Z")
So things were great when only one parent had to work to support a family and the other could be at home raising their kids and doing actual parenting and spending time with them rather than dumping them off at some daycare. Don’t get me wrong, I’d be just fine with having my wife go to work in a factory or fab and me staying home to raise the kids. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-any-member-of-the-senate-not-see-the-capitol-insurrection-as-a-deeply-personal-attack/932706/75 "2021-02-13T00:17:12Z")
I’m talking about my grandmother who was the sole breadwinner for her widowed sister, her niece, and her own two sons being paid less than half what men doing the exact same work were paid, and when she asked for a raise was told she should get another husband. I’ll also mention it was entirely legal to pay Black people - of any gender - less than a White man for doing the exact same work. The wage was sufficient for one parent to pay for an entire family ONLY if you were White man. And the lower classes didn’t have daycare - the kids were either left with a relative while the parent(s) worked or were left to fend for themselves. The 1950’s were not nearly as wonderful as some people think they were. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2021, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-any-member-of-the-senate-not-see-the-capitol-insurrection-as-a-deeply-personal-attack/932706/76 "2021-02-13T01:41:41Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The wage was sufficient for one parent to pay for an entire family ONLY if you were White man. And of course, as previous cites have pointed out, even for white men that only held good until the next employment slump or layoff, of which there were a lot in the 1950s. Putting a whole family’s economic eggs in the one-breadwinner basket is a risky strategy. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2021, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-any-member-of-the-senate-not-see-the-capitol-insurrection-as-a-deeply-personal-attack/932706/77 "2021-02-14T14:52:08Z")
Nancy Pelosi states what happened quite well. I’m surprised 7 Republicans had the moral conviction to do the right thing. I’m sure they knew risking their political office wouldn’t change the outcome. > **[Pelosi scoffs at 'cowardly' GOP senators | WBMA](https://katu.com/news/nation-world/pelosi-scoffs-at-cowardly-gop-senators)** > > WASHINGTON (AP) — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi scoffed at the “cowardly” Senate Republicans who voted to acquit Donald Trump of inciting the Capitol siege. With the impeachment trial now over, some Democrats and Republicans in the House and Senate have... > [@](#): > > Pelosi panned those efforts as grossly inadequate in the face of the violent attack on the nation’s seat of power. Five people died. > > “What we saw in that Senate today was a cowardly group of Republicans who apparently have no options because they were afraid to defend their job,” she said at the Capitol. > > “We censure people for using stationary for the wrong purpose. We don’t censure people for inciting insurrection that kills people in the Capitol.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-any-member-of-the-senate-not-see-the-capitol-insurrection-as-a-deeply-personal-attack/932706.md?page=3)