# How can anyone defend closing of private property on Federal land? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 6, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-defend-closing-of-private-property-on-federal-land/670534 "2013-10-06T22:26:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-defend-closing-of-private-property-on-federal-land/670534/21 "2013-10-07T23:09:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Cite? > > I visited the Vietnam Wall during the Clinton/Gingrich shutdown; no barriers, either there or across the street at the Lincoln Memorial. (Granted, I didn’t walk across the street, but i could see it perfectly). > > So I’m going to call bullshit on that claim. > **[1995 and 2013: Three differences between two shutdowns | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2013/10/01/politics/different-government-shutdowns/)** > > All government shutdowns are not created equal. The shutdowns in ’95 and ‘96 occurred in a politically and economically different time. Photo of the Lincoln Memorial shut down in 1995. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-defend-closing-of-private-property-on-federal-land/670534/22 "2013-10-07T23:20:56Z")
And let’s put on our thinking caps and think, think, think Mr. Bricker. Is there any other difference between 1995 and 2013. Let’s think, think, think… Do we have more security now at airports? Do we have more security at our borders? Do we worry more about these security things than we did in 1995? Hmmmmm. What, what, what do you think Mr. Bricker? Why YES, YES, YES, we do, we do, we do! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-defend-closing-of-private-property-on-federal-land/670534/23 "2013-10-07T23:22:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So I’m going to call bullshit on that claim. Care to walk that back? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-defend-closing-of-private-property-on-federal-land/670534/24 "2013-10-07T23:32:06Z")
> [@JustBecause14](#): > > Closing an inn, forcing people out of their homes, blocking scenic views of parks, not allowing football games to be broadcast to our troops overseas-- these are things that seem to be done solely for the purpose of “punishment.” Does no one see this? Really? The government has been shut down before, it was shut down for 3 weeks in the 90’s. None of these things happened. Why now? **Hold Congress’ pay for example. Anyone on board with that?** It’s been suggested. It would violate the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-defend-closing-of-private-property-on-federal-land/670534/25 "2013-10-07T23:42:37Z")
> [@JustBecause14](#): > > The government has been shut down before, it was shut down for 3 weeks in the 90’s. None of these things happened. Why now?= ['Cause they did.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/30/absolutely-everything-you-need-to-know-about-how-the-government-shutdown-will-work/) > [@](#): > > Parks and museums: The National Park Service will close more than 400 national parks and museums, including Yosemite National Park in California, Alcatraz in San Francisco, and the Statue of Liberty in New York. The last time this happened during the 1995-96 shutdown, some 7 million visitors were turned away. (One big exception was the south rim of the Grand Canyon, which stayed open only because Arizona agreed to pick up the tab.) ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-defend-closing-of-private-property-on-federal-land/670534/26 "2013-10-08T00:04:45Z")
> [@JustBecause14](#): > > Closing an inn, forcing people out of their homes, blocking scenic views of parks, not allowing football games to be broadcast to our troops overseas-- these are things that seem to be done solely for the purpose of “punishment.” Does no one see this? Really? The government has been shut down before, it was shut down for 3 weeks in the 90’s. None of these things happened. Why now? Hold Congress’ pay for example. Anyone on board with that? There are far worse things that are happening with the shutdown than the closing of the national parks; those are just the most visible things. Just off the top of my head: The NTSB has had to cancel all accident investigations. There was a plane crash in Santa Monica which they were looking into; this investigation is now stopped in its tracks. A bunch of scheduled aircraft deliveries are not being made because the branch of the FAA that issues airworthiness certificates is shut down. By now everyone knows that the CDC and NIH are shut down. That can’t be good for the health of the nation’s people. This shut down is about much more than just the national parks! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-defend-closing-of-private-property-on-federal-land/670534/27 "2013-10-08T00:30:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by JustBecause14 View Post > The government has been shut down before, it was shut down for 3 weeks in the 90’s. None of these things happened. Why now?= > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > ['Cause they did.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/30/absolutely-everything-you-need-to-know-about-how-the-government-shutdown-will-work/) > [@](#): > > Parks and museums: The National Park Service will close more than 400 national parks and museums, including Yosemite National Park in California, Alcatraz in San Francisco, and the Statue of Liberty in New York. The last time this happened during the 1995-96 shutdown, some 7 million visitors were turned away. (One big exception was the south rim of the Grand Canyon, which stayed open only because Arizona agreed to pick up the tab.) Keep on fighting the good fight. People will “remember” stuff from the 1995 shutdown that never happened. See **Bricker** ’s post above. They are having this reinforced daily by “news” sites that are peddling complete fabricated BS. So you have a long road in front of you - fighting ignorance that people really actually enjoy keeping. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-defend-closing-of-private-property-on-federal-land/670534/28 "2013-10-08T00:43:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Care to walk that back? > [@Bricker](#): > > Cite? > > I visited the Vietnam Wall during the Clinton/Gingrich shutdown; no barriers, either there or across the street at the Lincoln Memorial. (Granted, I didn’t walk across the street, but i could see it perfectly). > > So I’m going to call bullshit on that claim. Say Cowgirl, got anything to say about the pics posted of the LM barricaded in 1995? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-defend-closing-of-private-property-on-federal-land/670534/29 "2013-10-08T00:44:10Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > Here’s the Lincoln Memorial during the 1995 shut down: > > [http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130919132640-01-government-shutdown-1995-horizontal-gallery.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/01/politics/different-government-shutdowns/&h=360&w=640&sz=69&tbnid=aycLGzsoqsHw1M:&tbnh=99&tbnw=176&zoom=1&usg=\_\_7jo31CHl-LBzrj8MI-Od8m7zaDs=&docid=JQuj3TmwewnFbM&sa=X&ei=zT5TUsi1Cer64AOi8oGICQ&ved=0CDMQ9QEwAA](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130919132640-01-government-shutdown-1995-horizontal-gallery.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/01/politics/different-government-shutdowns/&h=360&w=640&sz=69&tbnid=aycLGzsoqsHw1M:&tbnh=99&tbnw=176&zoom=1&usg=__7jo31CHl-LBzrj8MI-Od8m7zaDs=&docid=JQuj3TmwewnFbM&sa=X&ei=zT5TUsi1Cer64AOi8oGICQ&ved=0CDMQ9QEwAA) > > You could have googled it yourself. > [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > [http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/01/politics/different-government-shutdowns/](http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/01/politics/different-government-shutdowns/) > > Photo of the Lincoln Memorial shut down in 1995. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Care to walk that back? Yes. I maintain the Vietnam Wall remained open, but in looking at those pictures, it’s now clear to me that standing at the Wall, I was too low to see the street, so while I didn’t see barricades at the Lincoln Memorial, that didn’t mean they were not there. I have a distinct memory of seeing the steps to the Lincoln Memorial clear and unbarricaded. Looking at that picture, I realize now that what I was seeing was the top, pure white marble area, not the actual street-level steps. Good lesson for me. I was wrong in my conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-defend-closing-of-private-property-on-federal-land/670534/30 "2013-10-08T00:49:34Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > People will “remember” stuff from the 1995 shutdown that never happened. See **Bricker** ’s post above. I didn’t remember anything wrongly. I reached a wrong conclusion based on my accurate memory. I made a point of saying I did not visit the Lincoln Memorial – just looked at it. Looking at these pictures makes me realize what I saw was not actually the street-level steps where the barricade was. So no doubt I was wrong, but not because I confabulated a memory. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-defend-closing-of-private-property-on-federal-land/670534/31 "2013-10-08T00:52:56Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > And let’s put on our thinking caps and think, think, think Mr. Bricker. Is there any other difference between 1995 and 2013. Let’s think, think, think… Do we have more security now at airports? Do we have more security at our borders? Do we worry more about these security things than we did in 1995? Hmmmmm. What, what, what do you think Mr. Bricker? Why YES, YES, YES, we do, we do, we do! Do we? If that’s true, can you explain how [this happened](http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/26/politics/lincoln-memorial-vandalized/index.html)? In other words, if, as you say, we have stepped up our security posture post-911 at the Lincoln Memorial, it doesn’t make sense to me that this woman was able to splash her paint and leave without getting caught, or even caught on video. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-defend-closing-of-private-property-on-federal-land/670534/32 "2013-10-08T00:57:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Do we? > > If that’s true, can you explain how [this happened](http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/26/politics/lincoln-memorial-vandalized/index.html)? > > In other words, if, as you say, we have stepped up our security posture post-911 at the Lincoln Memorial, it doesn’t make sense to me that this woman was able to splash her paint and leave without getting caught, or even caught on video. Ah yes, the old chestnut that if we don’t have perfect enforcement and protection, we have nothing. Well cowgirl, I guess we should give up entirely and just let the vandals roam free on the range of the entire country. That’s the only other option. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-defend-closing-of-private-property-on-federal-land/670534/33 "2013-10-08T00:57:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Do we? > > If that’s true, can you explain how [this happened](http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/26/politics/lincoln-memorial-vandalized/index.html)? > > In other words, if, as you say, we have stepped up our security posture post-911 at the Lincoln Memorial, it doesn’t make sense to me that this woman was able to splash her paint and leave without getting caught, or even caught on video. 95% is higher than 90% and lower than 100%. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-defend-closing-of-private-property-on-federal-land/670534/34 "2013-10-08T02:01:30Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > Ah yes, the old chestnut that if we don’t have perfect enforcement and protection, we have nothing. Well cowgirl, I guess we should give up entirely and just let the vandals roam free on the range of the entire country. That’s the only other option. Ok. Do you have a cite for any actual increase in security at monuments that was tied to 9/11 and is supportive of the theory alluded to above? In other words, you seem perfectly happy to advance your unsourced assertion and wave away mine. That seems unfair to me. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-defend-closing-of-private-property-on-federal-land/670534/35 "2013-10-08T02:03:11Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > 95% is higher than 90% and lower than 100%. Yes, those are accurate statements. Now all you need to make them relevant is some actual fact to connect to the numbers. Because if that isn’t present, it seems I can respond that zero equals zero, another indisputable mathematical fact. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-defend-closing-of-private-property-on-federal-land/670534/36 "2013-10-08T02:04:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Ok. Do you have a cite for any actual increase in security at monuments that was tied to 9/11 and is supportive of the theory alluded to above? > > In other words, you seem perfectly happy to advance your unsourced assertion and wave away mine. That seems unfair to me. > [@WWII Memorial shutdown controversy](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/140): > > Your plaintive cry arises from some sort of sense of justice. > > Guess what, cowboy? Ain’t no justice hereabouts. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-defend-closing-of-private-property-on-federal-land/670534/37 "2013-10-08T02:07:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Do we? > > If that’s true, can you explain how [this happened](http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/26/politics/lincoln-memorial-vandalized/index.html)? > > In other words, if, as you say, we have stepped up our security posture post-911 at the Lincoln Memorial, it doesn’t make sense to me that this woman was able to splash her paint and leave without getting caught, or even caught on video. Stepped up security isn’t perfect security. Didn’t you ever sneak past a cop when you were younger? I didn’t, but my delinquent brother slipped past guards all the time to tag walls. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-defend-closing-of-private-property-on-federal-land/670534/38 "2013-10-08T02:08:04Z")
Maybe what’s complicating things some is that there were two shutdowns in 1995, one in November, and another one in December? See the attached article, for instance: [http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=b7dPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=vFMDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4799,4743038&dq=shutdown+parks+closed&hl=en](http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=b7dPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=vFMDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4799,4743038&dq=shutdown+parks+closed&hl=en) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-defend-closing-of-private-property-on-federal-land/670534/39 "2013-10-08T02:12:16Z")
Although, it looks like, even in the November shutdown, only some parks were closed: [http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=A\_ErAAAAIBAJ&sjid=82kFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2392,1241799&dq=shutdown+parks+closed&hl=en](http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=A_ErAAAAIBAJ&sjid=82kFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2392,1241799&dq=shutdown+parks+closed&hl=en) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-defend-closing-of-private-property-on-federal-land/670534/40 "2013-10-08T03:32:13Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > Say Cowgirl, got anything to say about the pics posted of the LM barricaded in 1995? Warning for being a jerk. Last chance, **sinjin** ; if you act like a baby, I will give you a timeout. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-defend-closing-of-private-property-on-federal-land/670534.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-defend-closing-of-private-property-on-federal-land/670534.md?page=3)