# How can anyone still be a Neoconservative in 2020? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 8, 2020, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-still-be-a-neoconservative-in-2020/846128 "2020-01-08T15:50:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-still-be-a-neoconservative-in-2020/846128/1 "2020-01-08T15:50:41Z")
After the failures the USA experienced with regime change and nation building Iraq and Afghanistan in the early 2000s up until the present day, the trillions of dollars we spent over two decades with so little good to show for it, how does anyone justify still being a Neoconservative in 2020? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-still-be-a-neoconservative-in-2020/846128/2 "2020-01-08T15:52:38Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > After the failures the USA experienced with regime change and nation building Iraq and Afghanistan in the early 2000s up until the present day, the trillions of dollars we spent over two decades with so little good to show for it, how does anyone justify still being a Neoconservative in 2020? They believe that they will personally benefit, and make more money. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-still-be-a-neoconservative-in-2020/846128/3 "2020-01-08T16:05:08Z")
Maybe this will be term-quibbling, but I don’t think “neoconservative” necessarily has to mean favoring war with Iran at all. One can be a hawkish conservative while also arguing that Iran is an unsuitable situation for a war. Neoconservative can mean favoring hawkish deterrence, but not actually fighting unless a major tripwire is crossed. Essentially, neoconservatism is three things blended together: Conservatism, hawkishness, and internationalism. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-still-be-a-neoconservative-in-2020/846128/4 "2020-01-08T16:55:23Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > After the failures the USA experienced with regime change and nation building Iraq and Afghanistan in the early 2000s up until the present day, the trillions of dollars we spent over two decades with so little good to show for it, how does anyone justify still being a Neoconservative in 2020? Are you talking about people like Elliott Abrams? Might be worth reading this article from WaPo: "\*Removing Maduro is part of a broader pattern of trying to reverse the “pink tide” of reformist and socialist leaders elected in Latin America since 9/11. These governments refused to participate in the various illegal and nefarious activities perpetrated by the Bush administration, including rendition, waterboarding, enhanced interrogation and other forms of torture perpetrated at black sites. This earned the ire of neoconservatives such as Abrams. Neoconservatives are seeking to staunch Chinese economic penetration of Latin America. But they also want to return to the halcyon days of the Cold War, when Washington could count on the region’s leaders to reflexively support its agenda, no matter how brutal their regimes or how dire the conditions they spawned\*." D’Haeseleer, B. (2019, Feb 5). “How the neocons captured Donald Trump.” _The Washington Post_. Retrieved January 8, 2020 from [https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/02/05/how-neocons-captured-donald-trump](https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/02/05/how-neocons-captured-donald-trump/) ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-still-be-a-neoconservative-in-2020/846128/5 "2020-01-08T17:31:36Z")
Money, dear boy. There’s lots of it to befound, being scum. Always has been, really. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-still-be-a-neoconservative-in-2020/846128/6 "2020-01-08T18:04:32Z")
Uhm, there’s hardly any neoconservatives around anymore. Most of them caved into Trumpism, the remainder are marginalized and pretty much in exile. ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-still-be-a-neoconservative-in-2020/846128/7 "2020-01-08T19:27:11Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > After the failures the USA experienced with regime change and nation building… GIven past performance, I’m sure there are still some neocon true believers, just as there are convinced Communists, who would argue that the reason that nation building on the one hand and the dictatorship of the proletariat on the other has never worked, is because no one has truly given them a chance. [sarcasm]If we only give it some more time (say, 5 or 6 more [Friedman Units](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedman_Unit)) and treasure, surely Iraq and Afghanistan will be beacons of democracy in the benighted Muslim world.[/sarcasm]