# How can anyone vote for Trump in 2020? No. But Seriously **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 19, 2020, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-vote-for-trump-in-2020-no-but-seriously/918506 "2020-08-19T18:09:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-vote-for-trump-in-2020-no-but-seriously/918506/461 "2020-09-08T15:13:44Z")
It has been said that often the greatest insult is an accurate description. ---
**Author:** ![irae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f0a364/32.png) [@irae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irae)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-vote-for-trump-in-2020-no-but-seriously/918506/462 "2020-09-08T18:04:57Z")
How can anyone vote for Trump in 2020? The amygdala. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-vote-for-trump-in-2020-no-but-seriously/918506/463 "2020-09-08T19:05:59Z")
Is fear more powerful than hope? Find out, November 3rd, 2020. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-vote-for-trump-in-2020-no-but-seriously/918506/464 "2020-09-09T12:33:55Z")
“Fear and No Change” ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-vote-for-trump-in-2020-no-but-seriously/918506/465 "2020-09-11T01:39:30Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Most successful foreign policy president in 30 years. > > Every president has stated he wanted NATO partners to meet their treaty obligations. Only Trump has made real progress. Trump spoke of pulling out of NATO, doing more to discredit that organization than any president, ever. This negates the supposed “real progress” you mention. What good has come of whatever he did? > [@](#): > > Every president, as a candidate, said he’d move the US Embassy to Jerusalem. Only Trump got it done. Just because something _is_ done, doesn’t make it right. Big deal, the embassy is now in Jerusalem. What good did that do? > [@](#): > > Every president wanted more Arab states to recognize Israel. Trump is the first to get anything serious done since Carter. The Kushner “deal” is a travesty. What good has this done anyone, except Israel? > [@](#): > > When Iran shot down a drone, the Pentagon and foreign policy establishment wanted Trump to respond militarily. Trump declined. Later, when he saw the chance to take out Iran’s top general, he did. The same establishment claimed this would lead to a full-scale war; Trump was right, they were wrong. Okay, fine. But again, big deal. It seems to me you just picked another thing that happened, and are giving Trump too much credit for this “accomplishment”. > [@](#): > > When Turkey wanted to cross the border into Syria, the same establishment swore this would lead to genocide, and wanted Trump to go to war with a NATO member. Trump declined, and nothing like genocide happened. Nothing really to see here. That is, it’s good we didn’t go to war with a NATO member, but was there ever really a chance Trump would do that? > [@](#): > > Above all, he has resisted the urge to get involved militarily overseas. First president to do that since… Carter, maybe? Eisenhower? Hoover? Ever hear of ISIS? > [@](#): > > When you ignore your feelings and what you think of his tactics and just look at the actual results, it’s clear that he’s defied the Washington consensus about foreign policy multiple times, and AFICT been right every single time. Now, Furt, to be clear, I’m not saying these are bad things, but they ain’t exactly the Marshall Plan, if you get my meaning. Obama got us out of Afghanistan for the most part, (and it took him way too long in my opinion), but this alone supercedes anything Trump has done. Therefore, Trump cannot be the most successful foreign president of the past 30 years. And I don’t bring Obama up to praise him, _per se_, but just to illustrate why I think you are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-vote-for-trump-in-2020-no-but-seriously/918506/466 "2020-09-11T01:44:00Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > In two years, Trump reduced Black unemployment, Hispanic unemployment, and female unemployment more than his predecessor did in eight years. If he wants to hurt minorities, he’s doing it wrong. How did Trump do this? Not, how did it happen, but what did Trump _do_ to make this happen? I ask not to imply a criticism of Trump in this case, but presidents get credit for all kinds of shit they aren’t directly responsible for. Remember the dot com boom in the 90s? Clinton did it right? Of course not. Same thing… ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-vote-for-trump-in-2020-no-but-seriously/918506/467 "2020-09-11T02:30:06Z")
The UAE/Israel deal was a big deal. As was getting vocal support for it by Egypt and Bahrain. As for what good it did - there is also now normalization between Serbia and Kosovo, and Kosovo is opening an embassy in Jerusalem. Remember the Balkans? That was Bill Clinton’s war. This all stems from killing the Iran deal. It gave the Trump administration a lot of political capital in Israel and in the Arab world. As another example, the Palestinians demanded that the Arab league condemn the UAE/Israel normalization - and the Arab league refused. Oh, and a Norwegian cabinet minister has nominated Trump for the Nobel peace prize. Because Trump has actually done more for mideast peace than Obama did with his pre-emptory Nobel. I still can’t stand Trump, but you can’t deny what has happened. He’s the first president in a long time to not start a war, and his administration has actually made more progress on the Arab/Israeli problem since Carter. We are closer to a lasting peace in the region than we’ve been in decades. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-vote-for-trump-in-2020-no-but-seriously/918506/468 "2020-09-11T04:38:28Z")
> [@robby](#): > > I’m sorry to hear this. I understand that this is what you have learned from Trump, but he does not speak for all of us here in the USA. Well, actually, in a very real legal sense, he does. ---
**Author:** ![razordance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e47774/32.png) [@razordance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/razordance)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-vote-for-trump-in-2020-no-but-seriously/918506/469 "2020-09-11T07:01:43Z")
What makes you think any of THAT is worth doing?! I’m a lawyer. I’ve known conservative lawyers, and all conservative judges must start out as conservative lawyers, and I can tell you for certain sure, most conservative lawyers are not even marginally human. And I’m thinking of the ones I respected most. As for “who’s boss,” foreign leaders RESPECTED America when Obama was POTUS. Now they laugh at us, and good for them. ---
**Author:** ![razordance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e47774/32.png) [@razordance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/razordance)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-vote-for-trump-in-2020-no-but-seriously/918506/470 "2020-09-11T07:06:54Z")
IME, any American who says “this is a republic, not a democracy” is not arguing but ranting. When they mean anything at all by it, what they mean is, “The U.S. is a federal state, not a unitary state.” Which is both true and important, but has nothing to do with any supposed distinction between a democracy and a republic. The U.S. is a democratic republic – as opposed to, say, an aristocratic republic like the old Venetian Republic, where the Doge was elected, but only the nobility of the Golden Book could vote. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-vote-for-trump-in-2020-no-but-seriously/918506/471 "2020-09-11T12:04:03Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > As for what good it did - there is also now normalization between Serbia and Kosovo, and Kosovo is opening an embassy in Jerusalem. Remember the Balkans? That was Bill Clinton’s war. No, it was Yugoslavia’s war, which (as you may recall) involved an attempted genocide. Clinton had been slated for not intervening in Rwanda and preventing that genocide; the involvement of not just the US but NATO in the Balkan War was intended to stop another one. While it happened during Clinton’s administration, characterizing it as “Clinton’s war” is revisionist. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > This all stems from killing the Iran deal. It gave the Trump administration a lot of political capital in Israel and in the Arab world. And virtually destroyed America’s ability to negotiate international treaties in future, because why would anyone sign an agreement with the US knowing the next administration might just tear it up in a few years’ time? > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Oh, and a Norwegian cabinet minister has nominated Trump for the Nobel peace prize. Because Trump has actually done more for mideast peace than Obama did with his pre-emptory Nobel. GW Bush was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize. Hitler was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize. Nominations are not, in themselves, an indication of achievement. What, specifically, did Trump do ? Note that when the Camp David Agreement was signed in 1978, it wasn’t Carter who won the Prize (his came in 2002) but rather Sadat and Begin. All evidence suggests that Trump has done far less here to achieve this agreement than Carter did at Camp David. However, if you wish to argue that Trump has made America a less belligerent nation by hamstringing its hard and soft power globally including in the Middle East, leaving gaps that for some strange reason Russia has always been right there to step into, then sure, he’s done a lot for peace. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-vote-for-trump-in-2020-no-but-seriously/918506/472 "2020-09-11T16:48:43Z")
I’m amazed that anyone can think that DJT’s foreign policy bears any resemblance to success. The Iran deal was a good deal that the Iranians were complying with and our allies supported. Now the Iranians have every incentive to resume their nuclear program and the world thinks that the US will not honor treaties. All because one racist piece of shit just has to undo every accomplishment of a black president. Moving the embassy to Jerusalem was moronic. It does absolutely nothing for the US and it ended any pretense of being an honest broker in the Middle East. But when you cede your foreign policy to Bibi, that’s what you get. And how about “falling in love” with a brutal dictator? Then cancelling military exercises with South Korea to please him? Then the dumb ass wanted to withdraw from NATO and was only kept from doing so by John Kelly. Then there’s the badmouthing of our allies and acting like they owe the US money for NATO. Then there’s undoing the thaw with Cuba that Obama brought about- yes you gotta undo everything that a black president does. Now some asshole in Norway nominates the dumb fuck for a Nobel Prize, as if that proves anything. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-vote-for-trump-in-2020-no-but-seriously/918506/473 "2020-09-11T17:02:49Z")
> **[Christian Tybring-Gjedde](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Tybring-Gjedde)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > Christian Tybring-Gjedde (born 8 August 1963) is a Norwegian politician who represents the Progress Party. He has been a member of the Norwegian parliament since 2005, and was the leader of the Progress Party's Oslo chapter from 2010 to 2014. > He is most widely known for his opposition to immigration, especially Muslim immigration, and rejects the scientific consensus on climate change. He believes immigration policy to be the single most importan... I wouldn’t be too proud of having been nominated by this guy. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-vote-for-trump-in-2020-no-but-seriously/918506/474 "2020-09-11T17:05:54Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’m amazed that anyone can think that DJT’s foreign policy bears any resemblance to success. Unless you are Putin. Then Trump’s policy has been very successful. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-vote-for-trump-in-2020-no-but-seriously/918506/475 "2020-09-11T17:15:18Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’m amazed that anyone can think that DJT’s foreign policy bears any resemblance to success. The Iran deal was a good deal that the Iranians were complying with and our allies supported. Now the Iranians have every incentive to resume their nuclear program and the world thinks that the US will not honor treaties. All because one racist piece of shit just has to undo every accomplishment of a black president. Moving the embassy to Jerusalem was moronic. It does absolutely nothing for the US and it ended any pretense of being an honest broker in the Middle East. But when you cede your foreign policy to Bibi, that’s what you get. And how about “falling in love” with a brutal dictator? Then cancelling military exercises with South Korea to please him? Then the dumb ass wanted to withdraw from NATO and was only kept from doing so by John Kelly. Then there’s the badmouthing of our allies and acting like they owe the US money for NATO. Then there’s undoing the thaw with Cuba that Obama brought about- yes you gotta undo everything that a black president does. Now some asshole in Norway nominates the dumb fuck for a Nobel Prize, as if that proves anything. The vast majority of Trump’s supporters don’t know anything about issues. They are emotion-driven and their ignorance is a shield. There are people who think the “grab-them-by-the-pussy” comment is fake news. Because their media never reported it, and it feels nicer to believe that it’s not true when it’s brought up. They think his foreign policy is great because they “know” he’s great and brilliant, so of course his foreign policy is great and brilliant. Those that actually know any better just parrot RW media talking points like those that Sam Stone spoke of, above (maybe Sam came up with that on his own, as he professes to not follow RW media, but it’s still the same sort of justifying-the-conclusion-at-all-costs arguments that gets pushed on the RW media). Just take it as a fact that Trump taking a shit on the Iranian deal was good policy! Weeee! I’m embarrassed to be part of this time because kids 50 years from now are gonna be doing book reports on this dipshit and be just unable to believe that our society was this stupid. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-vote-for-trump-in-2020-no-but-seriously/918506/476 "2020-09-11T17:24:30Z")
I forgot to mention how he drops to his knees every time Vlad opens his fly. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-vote-for-trump-in-2020-no-but-seriously/918506/477 "2020-09-11T17:28:36Z")
He doesn’t so much drop to his knees, as grunt and huff as he slowly gets to all fours and shakily makes his way to sitting on the floor, dripping with sweat, and wheezing. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-vote-for-trump-in-2020-no-but-seriously/918506/478 "2020-09-11T18:29:00Z")
A Swedish cabinet minister just nominated Trump for the Nobel for the Kosovo-Serbia deal. > **[Trump nominated for second Nobel Peace Prize following Serbia-Kosovo deal](https://nypost.com/2020/09/11/donald-trump-nominated-for-second-nobel-peace-prize/)** > > In a Friday morning tweet, Magnus Jacobsson, a member of the Swedish Parliament, announced he was nominating the Trump administration and the two European nations. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-vote-for-trump-in-2020-no-but-seriously/918506/479 "2020-09-11T18:35:00Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Oh, and a Norwegian cabinet minister has nominated Trump for the Nobel peace prize. A _far-right_ Norwegian cabinet minister. > [@Gyrate](#): > > GW Bush was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize. Hitler was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize. Nominations are not, in themselves, an indication of achievement. What, specifically, did Trump do ? Note that when the Camp David Agreement was signed in 1978, it wasn’t Carter who won the Prize (his came in 2002) but rather Sadat and Begin. All evidence suggests that Trump has done far less here to achieve this agreement than Carter did at Camp David. That same far-right Norwegian cabinet minister also nominated Trump a couple of years ago for negotiating denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-vote-for-trump-in-2020-no-but-seriously/918506/480 "2020-09-11T19:35:29Z")
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 In case you missed it, Trump shared the love letters he exchanged with Kim Jong Un with Bob Woodward. Kim refers to Trump as your Excellency and refers to their “historic meeting” as being like a scene from a fantasy film. But Trump spares no caution when it comes to national security. Because he warned Bob Woodward not to make fun of Kim or the love letters or North Korea might nuke us. > **['A magical force': New Trump-Kim letters provide window into their 'special...](https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/09/politics/kim-jong-un-trump-letters-rage-book/index.html)** > > Bob Woodward's new book "Rage" provides a fascinating window into one of the strangest diplomatic relationships of the 21st century between President Donald Trump and North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un. Woodward gained access to 25 never-before-seen... So, for all you pathetic defenders of Trump’s foreign policy, does this help you sleep easier at night? Or is a nuclear was OK as long as you can blame it on a liberal? When Trump the statesman was goading Kim Jong Un and making up silly names for him, I heard an East coast Trump supporter say they were OK with Trump pushing Kim’s buttons because the nukes would probably be aimed at the West coast. The problem is I’m pretty sure Trump feels the same way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-vote-for-trump-in-2020-no-but-seriously/918506.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-vote-for-trump-in-2020-no-but-seriously/918506.md?page=25)