# How can anyone worship a god whose earthly record is such useless tripe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 19, 2003, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-worship-a-god-whose-earthly-record-is-such-useless-tripe/162496 "2003-03-19T07:11:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![IEatFood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c5a1d2/32.png) [@IEatFood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IEatFood)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-worship-a-god-whose-earthly-record-is-such-useless-tripe/162496/21 "2003-03-21T07:38:26Z")
> [@](#): > > So what is God’s job, precisely? How the hell would I know? [;)] Yes that was a pun. Unfortunately, I only know what I can rule out. I can only rule out what I can see for myself. If god is omnipotent, and injustice is rampant, etc… than I can only assume it’s not god’s job to deal with it, OR that there is reason god does not deal with it. Either way, I don’t see it as validation for the “there is no god” argument. Using that logic alone, you could go into southeast DC here, and say “there is no President/government” as well. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-worship-a-god-whose-earthly-record-is-such-useless-tripe/162496/22 "2003-03-21T08:03:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IEatFood! \* > \*\*How the hell would I know? [;)] Yes that was a pun. > > Unfortunately, I only know what I can rule out. I can only rule out what I can see for myself. > > If god is omnipotent, and injustice is rampant, etc… than I can only assume it’s not god’s job to deal with it, OR that there is reason god does not deal with it. Either way, I don’t see it as validation for the “there is no god” argument. \*\* An unusually frank version of Model-Shipwright’s “Step 2”… ---
**Author:** ![IEatFood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c5a1d2/32.png) [@IEatFood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IEatFood)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-worship-a-god-whose-earthly-record-is-such-useless-tripe/162496/23 "2003-03-21T08:12:34Z")
please forgive my ignorance, but “Model-Shipwright’s “Step 2”…??” What is that? Instructions? ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-worship-a-god-whose-earthly-record-is-such-useless-tripe/162496/24 "2003-03-21T08:14:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IEatFood! \* > \*\*please forgive my ignorance, but “Model-Shipwright’s “Step 2”…??” What is that? Instructions? \*\* Well, if you’re not old enough to know, _I’m_ not going to be the one who tells you… ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-worship-a-god-whose-earthly-record-is-such-useless-tripe/162496/25 "2003-03-21T08:20:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by js\_africanus \* > \*\*Ugh! As near as I can figure the bible is a reason to _not_ believe! And that goes for all you other religions: if your god didn’t bother to tell us how to treat childhood diahrrea and save a choking person’s life, then your god ain’t worth shit. No offense. \*\* Ah, I see. Since you can point out crappy things about all religions, all religions must therefore be crap? Tell me again how all Atheists are logical and rational? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-worship-a-god-whose-earthly-record-is-such-useless-tripe/162496/26 "2003-03-21T08:31:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Model-Shipwright \* > **I absolutely ADORE this argument! How in the hell could you possibly know HOW it was intended to be read? This is simply a mindless defense that relieves you of having to continue to argue from a bogus perspective.** Read the verses for yourself in their context then - it really isn’t a sequential list of instructions “1) do answer a fool… 2) don’t answer a fool… 3) now touch your toes” - it is a sermon about fools and folly; you can’t just dissect out a tiny portion of it and expect it to still carry the same meaning. I won’t even bother to answer the rest of your rant as it appears to be addressed to someone other than myself (unless you’d care to show me where I’ve behaved anything like what you describe in points 1 to 5 (and beyond)). ---
**Author:** ![Model-Shipwright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@Model-Shipwright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Model-Shipwright)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-worship-a-god-whose-earthly-record-is-such-useless-tripe/162496/27 "2003-03-21T08:34:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Tell me again how all Atheists are logical and rational? Okay, sure… Even if you had absolute physical proof that there was never a god and that the bible was a complete scam, they would still believe. As where if you show me proof that god exists I’ll change my beliefs rabbit fast, and I imagine so would all other non-believers. So knowing this, who do you think is the more rational thinker? How’s that? ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-worship-a-god-whose-earthly-record-is-such-useless-tripe/162496/28 "2003-03-21T08:42:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Model-Shipwright \* > \*\*Okay, sure… > > Even if you had absolute physical proof that there was never a god and that the bible was a complete scam, they would still believe. As where if you show me proof that god exists I’ll change my beliefs rabbit fast, and I imagine so would all other non-believers. So knowing this, who do you think is the more rational thinker? > > How’s that? \*\* Great, you can read things out of context. Why didn’t you quote my entire post? Here, let me do it. I said: > [@](#): > > Ah, I see. Since you can point out crappy things about all religions, all religions must therefore be crap? > > Tell me again how all Atheists are logical and rational? The point I was making is that **js\_africanus** argument is fallacious. Boiled down, his point is that certain parts of various religions are stupid (or crappy, as I put it) therefore, he concludes, all religions are stupid (or crappy, as I put it). There, does that explain it? And, can you provide a cite for this assertion: > [@](#): > > Even if you had absolute physical proof that there was never a god and that the bible was a complete scam, they would still believe. ---
**Author:** ![Sqube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Sqube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sqube)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-worship-a-god-whose-earthly-record-is-such-useless-tripe/162496/29 "2003-03-21T08:44:57Z")
Umm… well, I’ve got faith. I’m sure I’ll be cinders at some point, but that’s all I really need. Sure, there are God-awful horrible things. But you know how I feel about it? God created us, and allowed us to stick around long enough to figure out how to treat childhood and adult diseases, the Heimlich maneuver, and whatever else was in your litany. God did things that we perceive as horrible, but try considering a larger picture. You know, the one you can’t comprehend because you’re not omniscient/omnipotent? Maybe there’s something we’re missing. And since I don’t _quite_ believe that humanity has knowledge about everything, nor the ability to control or affect everything, I’m going to go out on a limb and believe there’s someone out there who can. Simply because, well… it’s what I believe. And even though I was born a Catholic, I went through a period where I seriously considered the merits of my faith. I took a good look at the world around me, read the Bible, and decided for myself that God is still worth believing in. Try not to base religion so much in logic, particularly seeing as faith is anything but. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-worship-a-god-whose-earthly-record-is-such-useless-tripe/162496/30 "2003-03-21T08:51:33Z")
Answering only for myself, as I said above, I don’t believe the Bible to be the infallible, literal and exclusive word of God - it is a book about humans trying to interact with God; my belief in God does not rest on what it says in _some book_, but rather on what I (believe I have) experienced. I meant to add to my post above, regarding this comment: > [@](#): > > How in the hell could you possibly know HOW it was intended to be read? - Please can you confirm whether you consider this statement applicable to the comments made by **js\_africanus** too? ---
**Author:** ![Model-Shipwright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@Model-Shipwright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Model-Shipwright)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-worship-a-god-whose-earthly-record-is-such-useless-tripe/162496/31 "2003-03-21T08:55:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Please can you confirm whether you consider this statement applicable to the comments made by js\_africanus too? I think it is obvious that the statement applies to anyone who professes to KNOW aything about how the bible is to be read and if it is to be taken ‘literally’. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-worship-a-god-whose-earthly-record-is-such-useless-tripe/162496/32 "2003-03-21T08:59:13Z")
Right. Can you suggest an empirical approach to understanding the thrust of the message in Proverbs ~26 ? ---
**Author:** ![IEatFood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c5a1d2/32.png) [@IEatFood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IEatFood)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-worship-a-god-whose-earthly-record-is-such-useless-tripe/162496/33 "2003-03-21T09:11:07Z")
Yeah, I guess I should pay attention to people’s names more, eh? Though it does lead me to another thought. Why is it that Atheists automatically assume you are a dogmatic Christian just because you do believe in something (just saw his step 2. I can see where you got that, but it does not actually apply to yours truly here…) Since no one else addressed it… > [@](#): > > A choice??? A choice!?!?! Just how the hell is worship me or burn in hell a choice? It is a choice. You are being offered two options. Worship. Burn. You pick. They may not be nice choices (why just last night, my Lt. says “Radar or Stolen Vehicle Recovery,” your choice. I hate both those jobs. But it is still a choice.) ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-worship-a-god-whose-earthly-record-is-such-useless-tripe/162496/34 "2003-03-21T09:24:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DesertGeezer \* > \*\* > Back in the time before bibles were published “in the vulgar tongue,” as the Roman church used to put it, the Church tried vainly to prevent bibles from falling into the hands of persons not taught by the priesthood what the book meant instead of what it said. It was thought by the Pope and his minions that reading the bible for themselves would lead people away from Christ. \*\* LOL, this is garbage straight out of Jack Chick’s paranoid mind, and the intolerant protestant evangelicals just like him. This “Catholic anti-Bible conspiracy” stuff is frickin’ laughable. The Pope and his “minions”?? _Somebody_ had to call you out on this. Stop posting this tripe, and try again, k? ---
**Author:** ![Scarf-Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Scarf-Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarf-Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-worship-a-god-whose-earthly-record-is-such-useless-tripe/162496/35 "2003-03-21T11:58:54Z")
The problem is that the bible has no standards. It contains IMHO, true prophets as well as charlatans (the book of revelations is obviously a delusion). There is a lot that is inconsistent, irrational, and sometimes inhumane, but also some gems of wisdom. ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-worship-a-god-whose-earthly-record-is-such-useless-tripe/162496/36 "2003-03-21T12:34:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RexDart \* > \*\*LOL, this is garbage straight out of Jack Chick’s paranoid mind, and the intolerant protestant evangelicals just like him. This “Catholic anti-Bible conspiracy” stuff is frickin’ laughable. The Pope and his “minions”?? > > _Somebody_ had to call you out on this. Stop posting this tripe, and try again, k? \*\* I am not sure you understand the poster. He was referring to the reformation period, before which Bibles were only written in Latin (and Greek?). This was for two reasons. It was though that the common man would misinterprete passages or that passages would be mistranslated. And it had the benefit of preserving the catholic church’s monopoly on God. Any other languages were actively banned by the church. One of the first translator of the bible into english Tyndale was murdered in Holland by agents of Holy Roman emperor acting for the Pope. Many clerics were killed for using the newly translated bibles. If you disagree with any of the above please let me know, and I will take you into a class on Medieval History ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-worship-a-god-whose-earthly-record-is-such-useless-tripe/162496/37 "2003-03-21T23:10:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\*And any dick who presents you with the “worship God or burn in Hell” proposition is either a totally inane Christian with a very superficial understanding of his faith or a fraud attempting to troll you. Even the most ardent of evangelicals, inclined to believe that your choices come down to believing in God their way or going to Hell, have a whole lot more to say on the subject than that. \*\* Doesn’t it still basically boil down to that, if they believe in hell for unbelievers? Take His4Ever, for example. Isn’t she presenting the “worship God or burn in Hell” proposition? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-worship-a-god-whose-earthly-record-is-such-useless-tripe/162496/38 "2003-03-21T23:58:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > \*\*Here is a short and incomplete list of things that must be included before you daddy, as a parent, can be considered to love me, your child: > I want to ride the pony > More ice cream please > Tidy up my room for me > Do my homework > Go to bed before midnight? I don’t think so > > Honestly! you think God (assuming for the purposes of this discussion that there is one) should have just handed down scientific knowledge on a plate? What do you think that large squashy thing between your ears is for?\*\* The analogy falls short for one very important reason: Despite various epithets about “God the Father”, **God is not supposed to be just a father figure.** God is supposed to be **omniptent.** I have **much, much** higher expectations of an allegedly omnipotent and omniscient being than I do of someone who is merely “superior.” Your daddy can’t give you everything because he’s not omnipotent or omniscient. He’s bigger than you, sure, and he has access to more resources and knowledge than you, but he has limits. **But God is not supposed to have limits.** God isn’t supposed to “miss” little details like telling the children He supposedly loves how to cure the diseases which He also created. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-worship-a-god-whose-earthly-record-is-such-useless-tripe/162496/39 "2003-03-22T00:00:19Z")
I already apologised for that analogy, with an explanation as to why I made the post. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-worship-a-god-whose-earthly-record-is-such-useless-tripe/162496/40 "2003-03-22T00:01:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RexDart \* > \*\*LOL, this is garbage straight out of Jack Chick’s paranoid mind, and the intolerant protestant evangelicals just like him. This “Catholic anti-Bible conspiracy” stuff is frickin’ laughable. The Pope and his “minions”?? > > _Somebody_ had to call you out on this. Stop posting this tripe, and try again, k? \*\* Are you saying the Catholic Church never had a stance against translating the Bible into languages other than Latin? That they didn’t consider Martin Luther to be a heretic for doing exactly that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-worship-a-god-whose-earthly-record-is-such-useless-tripe/162496.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-anyone-worship-a-god-whose-earthly-record-is-such-useless-tripe/162496.md?page=3)