# How can Biden use the recent SCOTUS Immunity ruling to his benefit? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 1, 2024, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-biden-use-the-recent-scotus-immunity-ruling-to-his-benefit/1003589 "2024-07-01T18:29:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-biden-use-the-recent-scotus-immunity-ruling-to-his-benefit/1003589/41 "2024-07-02T13:43:20Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Biden does along these lines is likely to end up as a Civil War. If that’s the only choice beside meekly following the rules into a new MAGA administration, I know which way I’d lean. ---
**Author:** ![Jumpbass](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jumpbass/32/147_2.png) [@Jumpbass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jumpbass)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-biden-use-the-recent-scotus-immunity-ruling-to-his-benefit/1003589/42 "2024-07-02T14:05:44Z")
I’d be happy if he merely removed Trump’s secret service protection. On the other hand, Og knows what kind of thugs Trump would hire. On the gripping hand, maybe the thugs could in turn be arrested for things they would undoubtedly do. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-biden-use-the-recent-scotus-immunity-ruling-to-his-benefit/1003589/43 "2024-07-02T14:36:27Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > They can start with arresting Trump (along with MTG and other abetting Congresspeople) for the Jan. 6 insurrection. Round up the loonies at Fox News as co-conspirators. Dismiss the three SCOTUS justices appointed by Trump, and arrest Alito and Thomas on corruption charges. This would backfire spectacularly. The ruling created immunity, it did not create new authority. Due process is still required, the prez can’t dismiss SCOTUS Justices, warrants are required for arrests. Unless Biden decides to go full despot, and has the support of the entire executive branch, he’d be smacked down. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-biden-use-the-recent-scotus-immunity-ruling-to-his-benefit/1003589/44 "2024-07-02T14:42:08Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > They can start with arresting Trump (along with MTG and other abetting Congresspeople) for the Jan. 6 insurrection. Does the President have a Constitutional power to order an individual’s arrest? See, whatever you want to do with this ruling, it’s got to be associated with a power he currently has. The ruling didn’t say actions can’t be unconstitutional, and it didn’t say that he’s immune from prosecution for ANY action. It says the President is criminally immune from any action he takes that is within his constitutionally delegated powers. The action may subsequently be deemed unconstitutional and reversed… but no matter how odious it is, if it was “official,” a Presidential power per the Constitution, he can never, ever be charged with a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-biden-use-the-recent-scotus-immunity-ruling-to-his-benefit/1003589/45 "2024-07-02T14:44:00Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Due process is still required, the prez can’t dismiss SCOTUS Justices, warrants are required for arrests. Unless Biden decides to go full despot, and has the support of the entire executive branch, he’d be smacked down. But violating due process is itself a crime, for which he would be immune. It’s immunity all the way down. Now what I’m wondering: How far down does this immunity go? Others in the Executive Branch has duties they must carry out, and also have vested interests in not being prosecuted for “official acts” after they leave government service. Since their authority to act ultimately derives from the president who appointed them, should they also not have this immunity? If I’m, say, the Director of the FBI, can I collect information on anyone I suspect of being a danger to society, and use those files to blackmail them? Can I assign agents to follow anyone I deem to be a threat? Collecting information and assigning agents are all just part of doing my job, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-biden-use-the-recent-scotus-immunity-ruling-to-his-benefit/1003589/46 "2024-07-02T14:48:30Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Due process is still required, the prez can’t dismiss SCOTUS Justices, warrants are required for arrests. Or what? > [@RickJay](#): > > See, whatever you want to do with this ruling, it’s got to be associated with a power he currently has. Or what? > [@RickJay](#): > > It says the President is criminally immune from any action he takes that is within his constitutionally delegated powers. As determined by whom? The SCOTUS when the case eventually winds up there? Biden has four months to leverage his executive authority without fear of prosecution. Let’s see what he does with it. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-biden-use-the-recent-scotus-immunity-ruling-to-his-benefit/1003589/47 "2024-07-02T15:03:51Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > See, whatever you want to do with this ruling, it’s got to be associated with a power he currently has. The federal government has no role in administering elections. Under the Constitution, this is the duty of the states. And yet there Trump is, meddling with elections with no legal authority, and yet he’s held immune. So I’ma gonna have to be skeptical. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-biden-use-the-recent-scotus-immunity-ruling-to-his-benefit/1003589/48 "2024-07-02T15:07:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Without getting _too_ outrageous (using SEAL Team 6 to take out Trump, etc.), what can Biden do to help ensure a November victory, using official acts that cannot be challenged in the courts? The problem with the Sulla Gambit - abusing power to try and put a stop to future abuses of power - is that when you are done, you can’t really put those powers you used back in a box. So the next wannabe dictator with less scruples than you can simply undo everything you did to try and block future dictators before taking power for himself. The fact that we have reached this point means that our institutions and democracy have already suffered irreparable damage. I don’t know how you fix this. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-biden-use-the-recent-scotus-immunity-ruling-to-his-benefit/1003589/49 "2024-07-02T15:18:14Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > It’s not likely, but anything Biden does along these lines is likely to end up as a Civil War. And inaction on his part is also likely to result in a civil war. There are no good options left. We’re looking for the least-bad option. > [@RickJay](#): > > Does the President have a Constitutional power to order an individual’s arrest? > > See, whatever you want to do with this ruling, it’s got to be associated with a power he currently has. He has the power to order the military. So he orders the military to capture all six of the majority justices on this opinion, as domestic enemies of the Constitution, and imprison them in Guantanamo Bay. There would naturally be some debate over whether he was allowed to do this, which would result in a case making its way to the Supreme Court. Whereupon six of the nine justices would refrain from casting a vote, on account of being indisposed. How would the remaining three vote? ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-biden-use-the-recent-scotus-immunity-ruling-to-his-benefit/1003589/50 "2024-07-02T15:19:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > How would the remaining three vote? I’d actually expect those three to tell Biden to get bent. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-biden-use-the-recent-scotus-immunity-ruling-to-his-benefit/1003589/51 "2024-07-02T15:25:09Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Now what I’m wondering: How far down does this immunity go? Others in the Executive Branch has duties they must carry out, and also have vested interests in not being prosecuted for “official acts” after they leave government service. Since their authority to act ultimately derives from the president who appointed them, should they also not have this immunity? If not, can he pardon them? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-biden-use-the-recent-scotus-immunity-ruling-to-his-benefit/1003589/52 "2024-07-02T15:33:54Z")
For that matter, if an Official Act cannot be illegal (with the cooperation of SCOTUS) can Trump now pardon himself if he takes office? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-biden-use-the-recent-scotus-immunity-ruling-to-his-benefit/1003589/53 "2024-07-02T15:40:25Z")
If Biden incarcerated someone without due process, yes, he’ll likely never be criminally prosecuted. But the “defendant’s” attorneys will file a habeus corpus writ with the court, who will demand the person be freed. Okay, here’s where Biden needs to go full despot, and hope he has the full support of the executive branch, if he decides to say, “Not gonna.” Again, if he does so (which assumes he has the cooperation of the executive branch, who will know full well it’s an unlawful order), SCOTUS seems to have said he won’t be at risk of criminal prosecution. But at this point, our democracy is essentially over. I mean, why not send in the National Guard to evacuate the chambers so that there is no certification if Trump wins? The exec branch has all the guns. It’s essentially the only branch that can make something happen by force. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-biden-use-the-recent-scotus-immunity-ruling-to-his-benefit/1003589/54 "2024-07-02T15:41:56Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > I mean, why not send in the National Guard to evacuate the chambers so that there is no certification if Trump wins? The exec branch has all the guns. It’s essentially the only branch that can make something happen by force. Because that’s the end of democracy in the United States. You’ll immediately have a civil war. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-biden-use-the-recent-scotus-immunity-ruling-to-his-benefit/1003589/55 "2024-07-02T15:42:34Z")
Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-biden-use-the-recent-scotus-immunity-ruling-to-his-benefit/1003589/56 "2024-07-02T15:43:22Z")
> **[Death Throes of the Republic Series – Dan Carlin](https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-death-throes-of-the-republic-series/)** I listened to this in 2016 and thought it seemed eerily similar to current events. Now even more so. ---
**Author:** ![Oly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oly/32/8255_2.png) [@Oly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oly)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-biden-use-the-recent-scotus-immunity-ruling-to-his-benefit/1003589/57 "2024-07-02T16:44:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > . How would the remaining three vote? Easy question. They’d rule that Biden is not immune and the detainment of the justices was criminal and it’d be lifted. Then the six reinstated justices would reassert that Biden did have immunity and the the detainments would be reinstated. Then the three would overrule again, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-biden-use-the-recent-scotus-immunity-ruling-to-his-benefit/1003589/58 "2024-07-02T16:46:59Z")
---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-biden-use-the-recent-scotus-immunity-ruling-to-his-benefit/1003589/59 "2024-07-02T16:48:43Z")
This thread will need some reviewing before reopening. We don’t allow advocating of illegal acts on the SDMB. Many of these posts appear to do so. I will be reflagging this thread for review by the rest of the P&E mods and any other Moderators that wish to comment. I suspect we will leave this thread closed and issue no warnings or modnotes. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-biden-use-the-recent-scotus-immunity-ruling-to-his-benefit/1003589/61 "2024-07-02T22:39:22Z")
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