# How can Bush not take Gaddaffi out? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 16, 2003, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-bush-not-take-gaddaffi-out/195560 "2003-08-16T08:09:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-bush-not-take-gaddaffi-out/195560/1 "2003-08-16T08:09:32Z")
I am not being a war monger, really…its just if I am to understand the Bush Doctrine, Gaddaffi’s open admission of involvemnt in Pan Am 103 should be the signal for us to be in Tripoli by the end of the year. With Saddam we had indirect evidence and suspicion, but here is a flat out case of someone commiting flagrant acts of terror over a period of thirty years, invading a neighbor (Chad), and financing every terrorist group you can imagine. And he owns up to it! Maybe Bush Sr. and Clinton let things slide, but surely Bush Jr. can’t let this stand. To date, there has been no military response to the Lockerbie bombing. Or is there more to gain from diplomacy here, maybe the potential for trade outweighs this. I know Gaddaffi has been ‘behaving’ for the last ten years, disassociating himself from his earlier idealogy, and focusing on ties with Robert Mugabe and other statesmen - but what if the guy gets a hankering for the good old days? What if this is all a set up? I suppose we’ll just forgive Osama once he gets a little old too. Libya may or may not have ‘oil’. But lets set that aside. (Each post to this thread should also have a different spelling of the Libyan leader’s surname too). ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-bush-not-take-gaddaffi-out/195560/2 "2003-08-16T10:56:37Z")
Kahdaffi? ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-bush-not-take-gaddaffi-out/195560/3 "2003-08-16T11:40:35Z")
By what right, law or even precident would Bush have to “take out” Gaddaffi? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-bush-not-take-gaddaffi-out/195560/4 "2003-08-16T11:47:39Z")
Umm, he’s a “Bad Guy.” That seems to be all the precident we need around here. ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-bush-not-take-gaddaffi-out/195560/5 "2003-08-16T12:17:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by syncrolecyne \* > \*\*(Each post to this thread should also have a different spelling of the Libyan leader’s surname too). \*\* [hijack] Well, he himself spells it Gadhafi, the media’s various opinions aside. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-bush-not-take-gaddaffi-out/195560/6 "2003-08-16T12:24:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by China Guy \* > \*\*By what right, law or even precident would Bush have to “take out” Gaddaffi? \*\* Precedent? Well, let’s see, one of the justifications for taking out Saddam Hussein was that he gave money to the familes of dead terrorists who attacked Israel. So you have an act several steps removed from having any direct consequence on the US used an (admittedly bad) excuse to take out Saddam Hussein. Whereas Ghadaffi directly ordered and sponsored terrorist acts which were directly against the USA. I would say there is much more justification for taking out Ghadoofi than Saddam Hussein. But, then again, I never believed the justifications proclaimed by the US government other than “because I can and because I will and what you gonna do about it?”. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-bush-not-take-gaddaffi-out/195560/7 "2003-08-16T12:26:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Darth Nader \* > Umm, he’s a “Bad Guy.” > > That seems to be all the precident we need around here. You calling the “Precident” of the USA a “bad guy”? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-bush-not-take-gaddaffi-out/195560/8 "2003-08-16T12:37:48Z")
We can’t get into it too much w/ Libya right now because Libya is the second domino in the upcoming domino effect in the ME restructuring, reformation and pacification started by the invasion of Iraq. They are the “good example” for other countries who have “questionable” records in the area of state sponsored terrorism. A role model, ( of sorts ), of how have international sanctions removed. ( I don’t know if this is true, but I expect it’s already being said. ) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-bush-not-take-gaddaffi-out/195560/9 "2003-08-16T12:51:31Z")
Why? Pan Am 103. The German disco bombings. Hundreds of dead Americans. A few other things I’m no doubt forgetting. All of which he _did_ do. Toss in brutal repression of domestic dissent. And Libya _does_ have oil, lots of it. If Bush & Co. have the principles they claim to re Iraq, then yes, there’s a strong _and real_ case to take out the Colonel, and do it _first_. But Libya isn’t even on the Axis of Evil. But **SimonX** is probably pretty close. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-bush-not-take-gaddaffi-out/195560/10 "2003-08-16T13:04:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by syncrolecyne \* > \*\* Libya may or may not have ‘oil’. But lets set that aside. > \*\* No no no… that is a major reason to invade… no setting aside. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-bush-not-take-gaddaffi-out/195560/11 "2003-08-16T13:37:56Z")
He seems to be considered “reformed”, and basically de-fanged. It would be harder to make a case that he’s a current threat than it was with Iraq, especially after the political damage Bush is taking by not finding WMDs. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-bush-not-take-gaddaffi-out/195560/12 "2003-08-16T13:38:01Z")
Let’s see here, despite having a bad track record in the past, Gadhafi has “calmed down” in recent years, and has kept a relatively low profile. The US can gain some good PR from reaching a settlement with Gadhafi. Bush, et. al, can point to Libyia and say, “See? We’re willing to _work_ with Middle Eastern governments, even if we don’t like 'em.” Also, IIRC, several countries have taken Libyia off their sanctions list, and are developing the oil fields. The US can’t spare military forces to invade (and can’t come up with even the _remotest_ justification for invading at this time), so if we’re going to get in on the gravy train, we’re going to have to find a peaceful way of doing it. If Gadhafi is willing to cough up some dough for the Lockerbie victims, then we can overlook everything else (until the CIA operatives move in to try and destabilize the country internally). ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-bush-not-take-gaddaffi-out/195560/13 "2003-08-16T13:42:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*Why? Pan Am 103. The German disco bombings. Hundreds of dead Americans. A few other things I’m no doubt forgetting. All of which he _did_ do. Toss in brutal repression of domestic dissent. And Libya _does_ have oil, lots of it. > \*\* Khadaffi _personally_ did this or ordered it done? This has been admitted or proven? US tried to kill Casto too, so should that allow Cuba to invade? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-bush-not-take-gaddaffi-out/195560/14 "2003-08-16T14:08:16Z")
His intelligence agency did those things. Would they have done so without his knowledge and consent, at least? At any rate, there’s a slight breeze over your head. The point is to compare and contrast Bush’s actions toward the 2 countries in light of his and his supporters’ _stated_ principles and factual bases. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-bush-not-take-gaddaffi-out/195560/15 "2003-08-16T15:24:59Z")
Didn’t the U.S. already kill his daughter back when? and from SNL: Quad hi-fi ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-bush-not-take-gaddaffi-out/195560/16 "2003-08-16T15:44:39Z")
> [@](#): > > But Libya isn’t even on the Axis of Evil. Well, Libya is part of the [Axis of Just As Evil](http://www.satirewire.com/news/jan02/axis.shtml). ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-bush-not-take-gaddaffi-out/195560/17 "2003-08-16T15:57:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*Why? Pan Am 103. The German disco bombings. Hundreds of dead Americans. A few other things I’m no doubt forgetting. All of which he _did_ do. Erm, do you have a cite that Gaddafi/Libya definately was responsible for the Belle Discotechque bombing? I know that this was the initial conclusion reached, but back then Gaddafi was the standard bad guy to blame for everything a la Saddam. I was under the impression that there was later some doubt about the accuracy of the intelligence assessments (no way!) and I certainly don’t think the Libyan’s have admitted that one. Of course, the US bombed Tripoli and personally targeted Gaddafi’s family in revenge, leading to the Lockerbie revenge attack. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-bush-not-take-gaddaffi-out/195560/18 "2003-08-16T16:13:07Z")
[The first Google hit is from the BBC](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1653848.stm) > [@](#): > > Libyan responsibility > > After a four-year trial, often described as murky, Musbah Eter was finally sentenced to 12 years in prison for aiding and abetting attempted murder. > > Lebanon extradited Yasser Shraydi to Germany in 1986 > > Two other Libyan embassy workers also received convictions for attempted murder: Palestinian Yasser Shraydi, accused of being the ringleader, and the Lebanese-born German, Ali Chanaa, who doubled as a Stasi agent. > > Chanaa’s German wife, Verena, was the only defendant found guilty of murder, after the prosecution showed she had planted the bomb. She was sentenced to 14 years’ imprisonment. > > Prosecutors said the three men had assembled the bomb in the Chanaas’ flat. The explosive was said to have been brought into West Berlin in a Libyan diplomatic bag. > > Verena Chanaa and her sister, Andrea Haeusler, carried it into the La Belle in a travel bag and left five minutes before it exploded. > > Ms Haeusler was acquitted because it could not be proved that she knew a bomb was in the bag. > > Against the other four, the evidence cited included intercepted radio transmissions from Tripoli to the embassy in East Berlin, surveillance records on Eter and Shraydi and reports on the Libyan embassy’s activities compiled by Chanaa. > > There were also receipts for money allegedly paid to the Chanaas for the attack on La Belle, secretly photocopied by the Stasi. > > But the prosecution was unable to prove that Colonel Gaddafi was behind the attack - a failure which the court blamed on the “limited willingness” of the German and US governments to share intelligence. However, to say Gadafhi wasn’t behind it, or authorized it, you have to say that his intelligence agencies were acting entirely on their own. I’m not willing to call that “reasonable doubt”, are you? ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-bush-not-take-gaddaffi-out/195560/19 "2003-08-16T16:27:13Z")
Thanks, that was quick! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-bush-not-take-gaddaffi-out/195560/20 "2003-08-16T16:47:02Z")
How did we get information before the advent of search engines? I can’t even remember. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-bush-not-take-gaddaffi-out/195560.md?page=2)