# How can Captain Marvel be a woman? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 27, 2019, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594 "2019-03-27T05:59:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/1 "2019-03-27T05:59:45Z")
I thought Captain Marvel was this buff dude in a red Lycra leotard with gold boots, a lightning bolt across his chest, and a gold cape. And a day job of being Billy Batson, a not-particularly-remarkable nebbish of a lad who could turn into the aforementioned buff dude by doing an impression of Gomer Pyle (“SHAZAM!”). Now, besides the conundrum of why young Master Batson would ever NOT be Captain Marvel, I’m faced with the existence of a motion picture in which he is being portrayed by a spectacularly comely young lady. Is this what people are talking about when they mention “retcon?” Or is it more of a “reboot” thing? ETA: Was Captain Marvel ever “First Lieutenant Marvel” or even “Butterbar Marvel?” ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/2 "2019-03-27T06:01:49Z")
your confusing shazam from DC and captain marvel from well marvel comics Two different comic books ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/3 "2019-03-27T06:04:50Z")
The DC Captain Marvel that you are thinking of is now called Shazam. The Marvel Captain Marvel is a completely different character. Nothing to do with Shazam or Billy Batson. ETA: [The Captain Marvel/Ms. Marvel/Shazam Clusterf\*ck Explained](https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-captain-marvel-ms-marvel-shazam-clusterf-ck-explai-1251423862) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/4 "2019-03-27T06:10:12Z")
He changed his name? Why? So he wouldn’t be throwing business Stan Lee’s way? I wonder if **Cal Meacham** has an article on this stuff somewhere… ETA: Was the Marvel Comics Captain Marvel always a woman? ETA ETA: And I still want to know if either one spent any time as a lieutenant. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/5 "2019-03-27T06:17:52Z")
heres the shazam preview ….[Shazam! | Fandango](https://www.fandango.com/shazam-213160/movie-overview) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/6 "2019-03-27T06:32:25Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > ETA: Was the Marvel Comics Captain Marvel always a woman? > > ETA ETA: And I still want to know if either one spent any time as a lieutenant. Marvel has used the name Captain Marvel for both male (Mar-Vell, a Kree) and female (Carol Danvers, human or human-kree hybrid depending on which reboot you’re in) characters. Carol Danvers (USAF) has indeed been a lieutenant, and a captain, and a major, but as [grade] Danvers, not as [grade] Marvel. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/7 "2019-03-27T06:37:43Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > He changed his name? Why? So he wouldn’t be throwing business Stan Lee’s way? > > I wonder if **Cal Meacham** has an article on this stuff somewhere… > ETA: Was the Marvel Comics Captain Marvel always a woman? > > ETA ETA: And I still want to know if either one spent any time as a lieutenant. Again, they are completely different characters, published by different firms. Really not sure why this is baffling to you. Have you not heard of two different people sharing a name? As for the current Captain Marvel, She was a USAF officer, so I assume she worked her way up through the ranks. But I don’t think her “captain” moniker has much to do with that. It’s just standard superhero naming. Captain America, Captain Cold, Captain Britain, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/8 "2019-03-27T06:52:14Z")
If I remember correctly, Marvel Comics gets to use the name Captain Marvel, even though DC had it first. Here’s from the Shazam wiki: Fawcett ceased publishing Captain Marvel-related comics in 1953, partly because of a copyright infringement suit from DC Comics, alleging that Captain Marvel was a copy of Superman.[4] In 1972, DC licensed the Marvel Family characters from Fawcett, and returned them to publication. By 1991, DC had acquired all rights to the characters. DC has since integrated Captain Marvel and the Marvel Family into their DC Universeand has attempted to revive the property several times, with mixed success. Due to trademark conflicts over another character named "Captain Marvel"owned by Marvel Comics,[5] DC has branded and marketed the character using the trademark Shazam! since his 1972 reintroduction.[6] This, in turn, led many to assume that “Shazam” was the character’s name. DC later officially renamed the character “Shazam” when relaunching its comic book properties in 2011,[7] and his associates became known as the “Shazam Family” the following year.[8] ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/9 "2019-03-27T06:56:36Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > He changed his name? Why? So he wouldn’t be throwing business Stan Lee’s way? Because Marvel owns the trademark on the name Captain Marvel as used in comic books. DC stopped making their Captain Marvel comics in the 1950s. And so Marvel created their own Captain Marvel in the 1960s and got the trademark rights. They’ve intentionally never let their Captain Marvel run out of print, even if it means changing their identity every once in a while. So, when DC decided to pull out Captain Marvel again, they couldn’t use that name in the books or advertising. So they instead used the word he calls out to transform, “Shazam!” For a while, including in the 1970s _Shazam!_ TV show, they tried to keep the character’s name as “Captain Marvel,” But it was easier to just call him Shazam and not have to worry about any trademark issues. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/10 "2019-03-27T06:57:54Z")
[Carol Danvers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Danvers) aka the current Captain Marvel, who I originally knew as **Ms. Marvel** back when she coexisted with Mar-Vell below. As a super hero she really first broke on the scene in 1977, though the character herself dated back to the 1960’s. Then there is the original Marvel [**Kree Captain Marvel**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Marvel_(Mar-Vell)), who first appeared back in 1967. Meanwhile the Shazam [Captain Marvel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Marvel_(DC_Comics)) you’re familiar with started in 1939, _but was not created by DC_. Rather he was created by Fawcett Comics who were sued by DC for copyright infringement( based on Superman )and ceased production in 1953. Then DC bought the rights and started publishing again in 1972( this is all in the wiki ). So actually the Marvel version preceded the DC version ;). ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/11 "2019-03-27T07:30:45Z")
I have to admit, though, for a casual fan, keeping the various marvels straight can be a bit of a challenge. Is there an overview somewhere? There’s also the Monica Rambeaux (?) Captain Marvel, who could transform into… Light? Energy? And I think a Ms. Marvel that was a kind of female The Thing? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/12 "2019-03-27T07:36:59Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Again, they are completely different characters, published by different firms. Really not sure why this is baffling to you. Have you not heard of two different people sharing a name? > > As for the current Captain Marvel, She was a USAF officer, so I assume she worked her way up through the ranks. But I don’t think her “captain” moniker has much to do with that. It’s just standard superhero naming. Captain America, Captain Cold, Captain Britain, etc. In the MCU Captain is the highest rank that Steve Rogers held in active service, hell he is called “Captain Rogers” almost as often as Captain America. Same with Carol Danvers, she was a USAF officer and test pilot, and at the time the USAF did indeed limit women from flying in combat. (In the comics Steve Rogers actual rank varies from Private to Lt Gen if memory serves). ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/13 "2019-03-27T08:49:14Z")
Steve Rogers is a Captain in the same sense that Muammar Gaddafi was a Colonel. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/14 "2019-03-27T09:31:34Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Steve Rogers is a Captain in the same sense that Muammar Gaddafi was a Colonel. :dubious: Gaddaffi was a Captain, promoted by the junta to Lt Col during the revolution. Rogers was a Private. Later commissioned as an incentive. The WW2 US Military often used promises of a commission as a sweetener for certain jobs. Lots of guys in Motion Picture Units were commissioned (like Ronald Reagan) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/15 "2019-03-27T09:36:35Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > :dubious: > Gaddaffi was a Captain, promoted by the junta to Lt Col during the revolution. > Rogers was a Private. Later commissioned as an incentive. The WW2 US Military often used promises of a commission as a sweetener for certain jobs. Lots of guys in Motion Picture Units were commissioned (like Ronald Reagan) They were the same in that while they both had mid-level ranks on paper, I’d like to see a General try to give them orders (ignoring the fact that Libya had no generals). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/16 "2019-03-27T10:46:27Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > There’s also the Monica Rambeaux (?) Captain Marvel, who could transform into… Light? Energy? Monica Rambeau could indeed transform into just about any kind of electromagnetic energy, letting her fly at light-speed, among other abilities. Amusingly, she was not actually a captain in her normal life - she’d been a lieutenant in the Coast Guard who was passed over for promotion because of her sex and after she got her powers, she resigned and decided she’d make Captain her own way. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/17 "2019-03-27T10:56:35Z")
Here’s an article on the subject — [https://www.bna.com/ip-paradox-two-b57982073812/](https://www.bna.com/ip-paradox-two-b57982073812/) ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/18 "2019-03-27T11:47:14Z")
Amusingly, from the other end of the spectrum, I never had any clue that Shazam was originally called Captain Marvel until the current MCU Captain Marvel movie was made known to the public. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/19 "2019-03-27T12:07:11Z")
Something similar happened when DC’s Terminator (Slade Wilson) transitioned to Feathstrike the Terminator bad is now usually just called Deathstroke. DC used the character name first but didn’t establish trademark use first. They could have kept calling him the Terminator, but couldn’t headline the name as a trademark. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/20 "2019-03-27T12:14:05Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > They were the same in that while they both had mid-level ranks on paper, I’d like to see a General try to give them orders (ignoring the fact that Libya had no generals). Captain Rogers certainly gives General Ross enough of a headache. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594.md?page=2)