# How can Captain Marvel be a woman? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 27, 2019, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594 "2019-03-27T05:59:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/21 "2019-03-27T12:15:12Z")
I’ve read the Wiki, but my instinctive reaction is like the OP’s. “Captain Marvel? WTF? I remember Captain Marvel from my childhood. **That’s** not Captain Marvel!” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/22 "2019-03-27T12:55:47Z")
And in case it’s not clear, there are current movies about both Danvers and Batson (the former in theaters now, the latter I think soon). ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/23 "2019-03-27T13:09:03Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Something similar happened when DC’s Terminator (Slade Wilson) transitioned to Feathstrike the Terminator bad is now usually just called Deathstroke. > > DC used the character name first but didn’t establish trademark use first. They could have kept calling him the Terminator, but couldn’t headline the name as a trademark. I got around to watching the Teen Titans Go movie the other day. They never once call him Deathstroke, but only Slade. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/24 "2019-03-27T13:17:33Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Monica Rambeau could indeed transform into just about any kind of electromagnetic energy, letting her fly at light-speed, among other abilities. > > Amusingly, she was not actually a captain in her normal life - she’d been a lieutenant in the Coast Guard who was passed over for promotion because of her sex and after she got her powers, she resigned and decided she’d make Captain her own way. ISTM that becoming a Coastie was ALREADY attempting to make Captain (O-6) the hard way. Ground-pounders and flyboys only need to get up to (O-3). ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/25 "2019-03-27T13:38:18Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > I have to admit, though, for a casual fan, keeping the various marvels straight can be a bit of a challenge. Is there an overview somewhere? There’s also the Monica Rambeaux (?) Captain Marvel, who could transform into… Light? Energy? And I think a Ms. Marvel that was a kind of female The Thing? Wikipedia is my go-to for understanding the comic book history of the superheroes. Though after a while reading the convolutions they went through over the years, (Captain America had a child with Black Widow who became a villain who later turned and became a hero before he crossed into a parallel universe and then Cap became The masked Phantom and then Vision assumed the role of Captain America but then…\*) I get a headache and move on. And then I stick to the movies. \*This is how they appear to me. Longtime comic readers will probably be offended, or think I’m stupid. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/26 "2019-03-27T13:46:34Z")
No, that sounds about right. Comic books are like soap operas. Kitty Pryde joined the X-Men in the early 1980’s; since then she’s aged 10 or 15 years. Franklin Richards, to my knowledge, has been eight years old forever (except in scenes that take place in the future. That the future in which he was portrayed as an adult has since come and gone while he remains a child in the ever-moving now in which comics take place doesn’t seem to matter). ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/27 "2019-03-27T14:56:15Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Monica Rambeau could indeed transform into just about any kind of electromagnetic energy, letting her fly at light-speed, among other abilities. > > Amusingly, she was not actually a captain in her normal life - she’d been a lieutenant in the Coast Guard who was passed over for promotion because of her sex and after she got her powers, she resigned and decided she’d make Captain her own way. And (minor spoiler for the _Captain Marvel_ film follows): [spoiler]In the film, Carol’s best friend is Maria Rambeau, who was, like Carol, an Air Force pilot. Maria has a pre-teen daughter named Monica Rambeau, who views Carol as something between an aunt and surrogate parent. Late in the film, when Carol is preparing to leave Earth with the Skrulls, Monica asks if she can go along. Someone (I think it was Fury) says something along the lines of, “Are you able to glow?”, which is, I imagine, a reference to the adult Monica’s powers as Captain Marvel in the comic books. In addition, in the books, Rambeau later used other superhero names, including Photon. In the movie, “Photon” is Maria Rambeau’s callsign.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/28 "2019-03-27T16:06:54Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > If I remember correctly, Marvel Comics gets to use the name Captain Marvel, even though DC had it first. No, Marvel was publishing Captain Marvel for a decade before DC picked up Fawcett’s Captain Marvel, which had been left fallow for a decade before Marvel created their character, which is why the trademark lapsed and Marvel was able to grab it. General timeline: 1940 Fawcett creates Captain Marvel. 1948 DC sues Fawcett, because they believe CM is too much like Superman. 1952 An extremely confusing verdict is laid down, so… 1953 Fawcett decides to get out of comic books. (Somewhere in here, another Captain Marvel is created by a third rate company, but he’s unimportant (and stupid) enough that I’m not going to bother looking up the year.) 1967 Marvel decides that since Captain Marvel isn’t in use, it should be theirs, so Mar-Vell is created. 1968 Carol Danvers is created. 1977 DC licenses Fawcett’s Captain Marvel, but due to Marvel’s trademark on the title, calls his comics (and TV adaptation) Shazam! 1977 Carol Danvers becomes Ms. Marvel. 1982 Marvel’s the first Captain Marvel dies (for the first time). He has various successors over the ensuing decades…including himself. (Long story.) 1991 DC buys CM outright, still has to call his comics Shazam! 2009 DC finally gives up and renames the character Shazam. (Initially, this comes along with making Freddy (formerly Captain Marvel jr) the primary hero, but within 2 years it’s reverted to Billy (as part of relaunching DC’s entire line).) 2012 Carol Danvers becomes Captain Marvel. 2019 Both Marvel and DC release movies based on their respective characters. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/29 "2019-03-27T16:42:52Z")
[Earlier thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=868384). ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/30 "2019-03-27T16:43:38Z")
I’m 51 and never knew Shazam as Captain Marvel. I don’t think the MCU is too worried about the name. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/31 "2019-03-27T16:51:40Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I thought Captain Marvel was this buff dude in a red Lycra leotard with gold boots, a lightning bolt across his chest, and a gold cape. Same here. My heyday of reading comics was from about 1958 to 1966, I think, from after Fawcett’s Marvel disappeared to before Marvel’s Marvel was created. I was aware of the original Captain Marvel mainly through Mad parodies, but hadn’t heard much about the Marvel character before the hype for the recent movie. I admit to being confused as to what if any relationship there was between the characters. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/32 "2019-03-27T16:58:37Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I’m 51 and never knew Shazam as Captain Marvel. I don’t think the MCU is too worried about the name. I’m 50 and always only knew the “[Big Red Cheese](https://www.cbr.com/captain-marvel-big-red-cheese/)” as Captain Marvel. [Captain Marvel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shazam!_(TV_series)) was a big part of my Saturday mornings. If I were King of the World, all ads, trailers, and other promotional material for this MCU “Captain Marvel” movie would be required to have a big asterisk with a note: - No, not **that** Captain Marvel—a completely different one. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/33 "2019-03-27T17:00:07Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Again, they are completely different characters, published by different firms. Really not sure why this is baffling to you. Have you not heard of two different people sharing a name? > > As for the current Captain Marvel, She was a USAF officer, so I assume she worked her way up through the ranks. But I don’t think her “captain” moniker has much to do with that. It’s just standard superhero naming. Captain America, Captain Cold, Captain Britain, etc. IIRC, Captain America had Steve Rogers getting commissioned as a literal Captain at some point- Chris Evans was wearing Captain’s bars on his uniform after he was embiggened by the super soldier serum. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/34 "2019-03-27T19:15:36Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Marvel has used the name Captain Marvel for both male (Mar-Vell, a Kree) and female (Carol Danvers, human or human-kree hybrid depending on which reboot you’re in) characters. Carol Danvers (USAF) has indeed been a lieutenant, and a captain, and a major, but as [grade] Danvers, not as [grade] Marvel. Monica Rambeau was the first character known as Captain Marvel. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/35 "2019-03-27T19:27:41Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Monica Rambeau was the first character known as Captain Marvel. The Kree Mar-Vell preceded Rambeau by almost two decades. > **[Captain Marvel (Marvel Comics)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Marvel_(Marvel_Comics))** > > Captain Marvel is the name of several superheroes appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. Most of these versions exist in Marvel's main shared universe, known as the Marvel Universe. The current incarnation of the character is Carol Danvers. > In the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Carol Danvers is Captain Marvel, portrayed by McKenna Grace and Brie Larson in Captain Marvel and Avengers: Endgame (both 2019), Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (2021), Disney+ television ser... The original was a little before my time so I never really got into him. Years after the graphic novel of his death came out I ended up buying it and really enjoyed it despite not being all that into him previously. A super hero dying of cancer (and it pretty much sticking) just wasn’t done. I liked Rambeau’s Captain Marvel when she was in the Avengers in the 80s. I’m not sure why she took on the name (other than Marvel comics expressing its copyright to the name, of course), and I don’t know why she kept changing it afterwards. It seems like she is short shifted a bit in this regard. I am not familiar with the other Marvels up until Carol Danvers. I like her fine, she has a nice history with Marvel Comics that goes back and though they’ve made a few missteps along the way, they’ve turned her into a decent character and a heavy hitter in the Marvel universe. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/36 "2019-03-27T19:44:00Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Monica Rambeau was the first character known as Captain Marvel. I assume you accidentally a word, since Monica first appeared a few months after Mar-Vell _died_. She was, however, the first _female_ Captain Marvel, predating Phylla-Vell taking that name by 20 years, and Carol by 30. (Or, over at DC, Mary using the name by over a decade.) ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/37 "2019-03-27T19:57:18Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > I have to admit, though, for a casual fan, keeping the various marvels straight can be a bit of a challenge. Is there an overview somewhere? There’s also the Monica Rambeaux (?) Captain Marvel, who could transform into… Light? Energy? And I think a Ms. Marvel that was a kind of female The Thing? Carol Danvers was the original Ms. Marvel. I’m not sure why she changed her name but it could have something to do with the then evil Rogue nearly killing her and apparently taking most of her memories. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/38 "2019-03-27T20:04:37Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > (other than Marvel comics expressing its copyright to the name, of course) I’m certain you mean “using its trademark in commerce” rather than “expressing its copyright to the name,” which is gibberish. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/39 "2019-03-27T20:13:28Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > I have to admit, though, for a casual fan, keeping the various marvels straight can be a bit of a challenge. Is there an overview somewhere? There’s also the Monica Rambeaux (?) Captain Marvel, who could transform into… Light? Energy? And I think a Ms. Marvel that was a kind of female The Thing? You can search the names on the fan-wikis, which will give disambig pages. Though with alternate-universe characters that might be more confusing to the casual reader. The Thing-like Ms Marvel is Sharon Ventura, who also used She-Thing. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/40 "2019-03-27T20:21:45Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I’m certain you mean “using its trademark in commerce” rather than “expressing its copyright to the name,” which is gibberish. Hey, speaking in gibberish is my bread and motor oil. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594.md?page=3)