# How can Captain Marvel be a woman? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 27, 2019, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594 "2019-03-27T05:59:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/41 "2019-03-27T20:21:55Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I’m 50 and always only knew the “[Big Red Cheese](https://www.cbr.com/captain-marvel-big-red-cheese/)” as Captain Marvel. [Captain Marvel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shazam!_(TV_series)) was a big part of my Saturday mornings. > > If I were King of the World, all ads, trailers, and other promotional material for this MCU “Captain Marvel” movie would be required to have a big asterisk with a note: > > - No, not **that** Captain Marvel—a completely different one. I watched the show when it was on and only knew the character and show as Shazam. Maybe I was just a dumb kid. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/42 "2019-03-27T20:30:12Z")
No. The Marvel version was never a big seller and didn’t show up in media until now. Once DC got the rights to Captain Marvel, they licensed him to other media. He had a bigger presence and the name was entrenched in the popular culture (remember, Gomer Pyle would often say “Shazam”). The character’s name remained Captain Marvel, even if the comic/TV show was named Shazam. But DC realized it was a losing battle, so renamed the character. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/43 "2019-03-27T20:55:59Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > No. The Marvel version was never a big seller and didn’t show up in media until now. Not strictly true - there’s a pretty big library of animated Marvel shows and non-theatrical films. Mar-Vell and Phyla-Vell have been in a couple; Carol Danvers (mostly as Ms. Marvel, but also frequently as Captain Marvel) has been in a ton. Apparently, they’ve never done anything with Monica, though. Or Genis-Vell, but that’s not terribly surprising. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/44 "2019-03-27T20:58:30Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > ISTM that becoming a Coastie was ALREADY attempting to make Captain (O-6) the hard way. Ground-pounders and flyboys only need to get up to (O-3). I was misremembering and just reviewed my copy of _Amazing Spider-Man Annual_ #16. Rambeau was not a member of the U.S. Coast Guard, but of the New Orleans Harbor Patrol, which I presume is meant to be similar to the real-life Port of New Orleans Harbor Police Department. She was annoyed at not being given command of a patrol boat. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/45 "2019-03-27T20:58:56Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > No, Marvel was publishing Captain Marvel for a decade before DC picked up Fawcett’s Captain Marvel, which had been left fallow for a decade before Marvel created their character, which is why the trademark lapsed and Marvel was able to grab it. > > General timeline: > 1940 Fawcett creates Captain Marvel. > 1948 DC sues Fawcett, because they believe CM is too much like Superman. > 1952 An extremely confusing verdict is laid down, so… > 1953 Fawcett decides to get out of comic books. > (Somewhere in here, another Captain Marvel is created by a third rate company, but he’s unimportant (and stupid) enough that I’m not going to bother looking up the year.) > 1967 Marvel decides that since Captain Marvel isn’t in use, it should be theirs, so Mar-Vell is created. > 1968 Carol Danvers is created. > 1977 DC licenses Fawcett’s Captain Marvel, but due to Marvel’s trademark on the title, calls his comics (and TV adaptation) Shazam! > 1977 Carol Danvers becomes Ms. Marvel. > 1982 Marvel’s the first Captain Marvel dies (for the first time). He has various successors over the ensuing decades…including himself. (Long story.) > 1991 DC buys CM outright, still has to call his comics Shazam! > 2009 DC finally gives up and renames the character Shazam. (Initially, this comes along with making Freddy (formerly Captain Marvel jr) the primary hero, but within 2 years it’s reverted to Billy (as part of relaunching DC’s entire line).) > 2012 Carol Danvers becomes Captain Marvel. > 2019 Both Marvel and DC release movies based on their respective characters. This is the best summary, but I would add “1961 Timely Comics becomes Marvel Comics.” That might help explain why the name wasn’t grabbed sooner. And the conspiracist in me thinks DC sued Fawcett more because Captain Marvel was outselling Superman, and it was the best way to remove the competition. It worked. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/46 "2019-03-27T22:03:40Z")
I hope nobody brings up [Marvelman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvelman) and the convoluted legal history of that property, because it would just confuse things further. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/47 "2019-03-27T22:19:14Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I watched the show when it was on and only knew the character and show as Shazam. Maybe I was just a dumb kid. [Here’s the show’s intro.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgXeXTuKGhM) The voice-over and the on-screen credits clearly identify the character as Captain Marvel. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/48 "2019-03-27T22:32:38Z")
Just to make things even more confusing, Shazam is still referred to as Captain. [Captain Sparkle Fingers](https://youtu.be/8blp3RWFJQE?t=67). He has also been called ‘Captain’ in some DCAU movies. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/49 "2019-03-27T22:42:14Z")
They could NOT have re-named the original Captain Marvel “Shazam.” What if he was flying the beautiful captive home after a daring rescue, and she asks “Who are you?” And he says “Shazam,” and then BOOM the magic lightning comes down and suddenly he’s Billy Batson and they are both plummeting from the sky? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/50 "2019-03-27T22:52:21Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > They could NOT have re-named the original Captain Marvel “Shazam.” > > What if he was flying the beautiful captive home after a daring rescue, and she asks “Who are you?” And he says “Shazam,” and then BOOM the magic lightning comes down and suddenly he’s Billy Batson and they are both plummeting from the sky? Captain Marvel Junior had pretty much that exact problem, and yet managed it. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/51 "2019-03-28T00:02:36Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > They could NOT have re-named the original Captain Marvel “Shazam.” > > What if he was flying the beautiful captive home after a daring rescue, and she asks “Who are you?” And he says “Shazam,” and then BOOM the magic lightning comes down and suddenly he’s Billy Batson and they are both plummeting from the sky? Go argue with 9 year old me. To him it was Shazam ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/52 "2019-03-28T01:39:10Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Same here. My heyday of reading comics was from about 1958 to 1966, I think, from after Fawcett’s Marvel disappeared to before Marvel’s Marvel was created. I was aware of the original Captain Marvel mainly through Mad parodies, but hadn’t heard much about the Marvel character before the hype for the recent movie. I admit to being confused as to what if any relationship there was between the characters. [Superduperman vs. Captain Marbles](https://stendek74.wordpress.com/superduperman-humor-tale-by-wally-wood/). ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/53 "2019-03-28T05:32:08Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I was misremembering and just reviewed my copy of _Amazing Spider-Man Annual_ #16. Rambeau was not a member of the U.S. Coast Guard, but of the New Orleans Harbor Patrol, which I presume is meant to be similar to the real-life Port of New Orleans Harbor Police Department. > > She was annoyed at not being given command of a patrol boat. :mad: Those sexist fucking bastards! ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/54 "2019-03-28T08:35:18Z")
I remember the tv show! as a very little kid …… and didn’t he have a side kick or enemy that was like him but in a blue suit ? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/55 "2019-03-28T09:01:43Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > Carol Danvers was the original Ms. Marvel. I’m not sure why she changed her name but it could have something to do with the then evil Rogue nearly killing her and apparently taking most of her memories. Yeah, she went from Ms. Marvel to “no powers”, then gained new powers and became Binary in a very long X-Men arc. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/56 "2019-03-28T12:21:49Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Yeah, she went from Ms. Marvel to “no powers”, then gained new powers and became Binary in a very long X-Men arc. And then for awhile she used the name Warbird (picking up on the pilot theme), and developed a drinking problem, before becoming Ms. Marvel again. She’s had a lot of names before assuming the Captain Marvel title. I read the original seventies _Ms. Marvel_ series starting with issue #1, and have always been a fan of Carol Danvers, so I’m glad to see her gain such prominence. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/57 "2019-03-28T12:36:15Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > I remember the tv show! as a very little kid …… and didn’t he have a side kick or enemy that was like him but in a blue suit ? Freddy Freeman, AKA Captain Marvel, jr. Apparently the inspiration for Elvis’s look. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/58 "2019-03-28T12:49:55Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > They could NOT have re-named the original Captain Marvel “Shazam.” > > What if he was flying the beautiful captive home after a daring rescue, and she asks “Who are you?” And he says “Shazam,” and then BOOM the magic lightning comes down and suddenly he’s Billy Batson and they are both plummeting from the sky? I didn’t know this until yesterday, but apparently he can say “Shazam” without changing - he has to _want_ to change for the word to affect him. And his greatest weakness _still_ seems to be that if you gag Billy Batson he can’t change - the word has to be spoken. (Hmm - what if he uses ASL?) ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/59 "2019-03-28T13:11:22Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > I didn’t know this until yesterday, but apparently he can say “Shazam” without changing - he has to _want_ to change for the word to affect him. If that’s true, it’s a new innovation. There are literally decades worth of stories in which he has to use circumlocutions like “the old wizard” when he wants to refer to Shazam, the wizard who gave him his powers. For years it was also a running gag that Captain Marvel, Jr. (whose transformation was triggered by saying “Captain Marvel”) was the only superhero in the world who was unable to say his own name. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594/60 "2019-03-28T13:15:01Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > [Superduperman vs. Captain Marbles](https://stendek74.wordpress.com/superduperman-humor-tale-by-wally-wood/). Thanks. That’s the story I remember (although I read it in one of the Mad paperbacks, not in the original magazine). I especially liked two oxes in the acronym for Shazoom! Strength Health Aptitude Zeal Ox, power of Ox, power of another Money No one has mentioned the original Captain’s acronym yet: Solomon Hercules Atlas Zeus Achilles Mercury It always seemed weird to me including a Jewish King in the list, not to mention mixing together Greek and Roman deities and heroes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-captain-marvel-be-a-woman/831594.md?page=4)