# How can Christians "believe" in Evolution **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 10, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885 "2005-03-10T19:40:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/181 "2005-03-16T04:28:42Z")
> [@Nolies](#): > > So then sample, > > are you of the camp that God **created** evolution? God came to his own and they did not know him… Nice dodge. I notice that you choose not to deal with my comments on your citations. Y’know, I used to have a bulldog who, when he knew he’d been bad, would run under a table and close his eyes, presumably believing that if he refused to see you, you couldn’t see him. He was wrong. But y’know what… he never stopped doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Nolies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/45deac/32.png) [@Nolies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nolies)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/182 "2005-03-16T04:58:12Z")
Did God create Sin? Is there time in heaven or will it be just an eternal now? ---
**Author:** ![Nolies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/45deac/32.png) [@Nolies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nolies)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/183 "2005-03-16T05:00:45Z")
**Genesis 18:14 Is anything too hard for the LORD?** Sample why did you jump on that one? Can God make you love him? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/184 "2005-03-16T05:04:02Z")
Sin is not a thing to be created. It is the action of a person imbued by God with free will. Heaven could exist in time or out of time. There are scriptural citations that can be used to support either conjecture, but there is no explicit statement from God on the issue, so we do not know. Any more red herrings you’d like to draw across your path? ---
**Author:** ![Nolies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/45deac/32.png) [@Nolies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nolies)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/185 "2005-03-16T05:07:29Z")
> [@](#): > > God made everything. > “Everything” would include Time. > If God created Time, that would mean that He existed before Time did. > If God existed before Time did, that would mean that He doesn’t require “Time” in order to exist. > If God doesn’t require “Time” in order to exist, that would mean that Time is irrelevant to God. > If Time is irrelevant to God, that would mean that God exists outside of, and apart from, Time. If God created time. You make the assumption that time has something to do with the created universe. You are doomed to fail with that reasoning… ---
**Author:** ![Nolies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/45deac/32.png) [@Nolies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nolies)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/186 "2005-03-16T05:10:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Heaven could exist in time or out of time. There are scriptural citations that can be used to support either conjecture, but there is no explicit statement from God on the issue, so we do not know. Can you show me these verses that support God being outside of time? I don’t remember them but the bible is a big book… ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/187 "2005-03-16T05:11:42Z")
Btw, **Nolies** , in the interest of full disclosure, I am an atheist. However, to paraphrase Thomas Jefferson, I believe in the doctrine of Jesus. Paul, however, I have some problems with. The man was a heretic, imho. I know that will sound hopelessly contradictory to you, but so it is. And I feel that, even if I am wrong and Jesus is there to greet me when I pass over, if I have lived my life according to the doctrine Jesus described, I will have a good chance of being directed to the right hand of the Lord. (See Matthew 25:31-46.) That said, I was raised in a Xian home (one uncle was a minister) and I have spent much of my life studying religion, including the Bible. In fact, you should be abashed that an infidel like myself apparently knows more about the Bible than you. 😉 \ ---
**Author:** ![Nolies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/45deac/32.png) [@Nolies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nolies)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/188 "2005-03-16T05:16:28Z")
> [@](#): > > In fact, you should be abashed that an infidel like myself apparently knows more about the Bible than you. Then you whon’t mind me calling you a fool :wally You don’t like Paul’s ministry? Your righteous is but a filthy rag… You will be found wanting if you rely on your good works… ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/189 "2005-03-16T05:20:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Then you whon’t mind me calling you a fool :wally Regardless whether or not he does, I do. You are out of line in **Gd** with both name calling and the use of the wally smiley. Do not do this again. [/Moderator Mode] ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/190 "2005-03-16T05:21:29Z")
> [@Nolies](#): > > Can you show me these verses that support God being outside of time? I don’t remember them but the bible is a big book… Here is an [extensive treatment of the subject of time and eternity in the Bible from a Xian perspective](http://www.ldolphin.org/time.html), including this: > [@](#): > > In Revelation 13:8, Jesus is referred to as “the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world.” Now the cross occurred at a precise moment of history. We know when the Lamb of God was slain. But the Bible says it occurred before the foundation of the world. How can an historical event which occurred at a certain spot on earth, in the biblical reckoning be said to have occurred before the earth was even made? The passage does not say that the Lamb was foreordained to be slain before the foundation of the world, but it says he was actually slain then. Surely it means that the cross was an eternal event, taking place both in time and eternity. In time, it is long past; in eternity, it forever occurs. So also would the resurrection, and in the same way, the second coming of Christ. When any Christian dies, he passes from the realm of time and space into timelessness, into the NOW of God when the full effect of these timeless events is experienced by him to whatever degree his spiritual state requires. But the Lord’s return is an event yet to take place in historical time when the Church is complete and the end of the age has come. Perhaps this is the meaning of the Lord’s words: “Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live” (John 5:25). ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/191 "2005-03-16T05:25:47Z")
> [@Nolies](#): > > Can you show me these verses that support God being outside of time? I don’t remember them but the bible is a big book… I already gave you one above. There are plenty more, referencing God or His salvation being eternal. Or is this a case of “I don’t want to hear anything, even from the Bible, that contradicts my views” on your part? ---
**Author:** ![Nolies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/45deac/32.png) [@Nolies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nolies)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/192 "2005-03-16T05:26:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Psalms 14:1 - The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Thus him being an atheist would make him a fool. Since he says he knows the bible so well I figured he would get that reference… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/193 "2005-03-16T05:28:17Z")
> [@Nolies](#): > > Then you whon’t mind me calling you a fool Not at all. There may be others, though, besides tomndebb, who do. See Matthew 5:22. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/194 "2005-03-16T05:29:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Thus him being an atheist would make him a fool. Since he says he knows the bible so well I figured he would get that reference… I am aware of the reference–and I am aware of what you were doing. Do not do it again. ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/195 "2005-03-16T05:29:51Z")
[QUOTE=Nolies] Thus him being an atheist would make him a fool. Since he says he knows the bible so well I figured he would get that reference… [QUOTE] And so I do. Nolo contendere. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/196 "2005-03-16T05:32:54Z")
> [@Nolies](#): > > Can you show me these verses that support God being outside of time? I don’t remember them but the bible is a big book… Well, here may be a classic example of the difference between Catholics and Protestants. In other words, if it’s not in the Bible, it must not be so. Whereas, in Catholicism, scripture is one of several ways of knowing God. ---
**Author:** ![Nolies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/45deac/32.png) [@Nolies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nolies)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/197 "2005-03-16T05:33:21Z")
> [@](#): > > it occurred before the foundation of the world. Now you are quote searching? To bad you use a foolish reference like this. Ever heard of a figure of speech? How could he have been slain before the foundations of the earth since he hadn’t become flesh yet? More people who use figures of speech as literal and the literal they take as a figure of speech… ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/198 "2005-03-16T05:33:32Z")
But again, you are very narrow and selective in your choice of scripture. Go a little farther into that psalm and you will find this: The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there are any that act wisely, that seek after God. They have all gone astray, they are all alike corrupt; there is none that does good, no, not one. Welcome to the club. I’m happy to have your company. Sure beats being alone. Ooh… my eye! ---
**Author:** ![Nolies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/45deac/32.png) [@Nolies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nolies)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/199 "2005-03-16T05:38:06Z")
> [@](#): > > They have all gone astray, they are all alike corrupt; Wasn’t Noah a man who walked with God? Didn’t Elijah get carried right up to heaven? When it says all it doesn’t always mean all. ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/200 "2005-03-16T05:38:23Z")
> [@Nolies](#): > > Ever heard of a figure of speech? > > How could he have been slain before the foundations of the earth since he hadn’t become flesh yet? > > More people who use figures of speech as literal and the literal they take as a figure of speech… Now the rabbit is out! Nolies is the keeper of the keys, the one who knows when Jesus and the prophets are being literal, and when they are being figurative. Ouch! Hey, I can’t see the keyboard! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885.md?page=11)