# How can Christians "believe" in Evolution **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 10, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885 "2005-03-10T19:40:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/201 "2005-03-16T05:40:17Z")
> [@Nolies](#): > > When it says all it doesn’t always mean all. But Genesis 1-2 is literal? Someone get the fork! ---
**Author:** ![Nolies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/45deac/32.png) [@Nolies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nolies)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/202 "2005-03-16T05:42:01Z")
No a guy called Bullinger wrote a whole book on figures of speech in the bible… ---
**Author:** ![Nolies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/45deac/32.png) [@Nolies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nolies)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/203 "2005-03-16T05:55:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Deuteronomy 4:29 - But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul. There was this prophet called Elijah who thought all had gone astray but God told him that there were 7,000 who had not bowed their knee to Baal… This is what I like about athiests They deny the obvious… When it say that all the cattle died in the plage in Egypt then several verses later it says that the cattle that remained need to be brought in to be saved from the hail… \*6 And the LORD did that thing on the morrow, **and all the cattle of Egypt died** : but of the cattle of the children of Israel died not one. 7 And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go. 8 And the LORD said unto Moses and unto Aaron, Take to you handfuls of ashes of the furnace, and let Moses sprinkle it toward the heaven in the sight of Pharaoh. 9 And it shall become small dust in all the land of Egypt, and shall be a boil breaking forth with blains upon man, and upon beast, throughout all the land of Egypt. 10 And they took ashes of the furnace, and stood before Pharaoh; and Moses sprinkled it up toward heaven; and it became a boil breaking forth with blains upon man, and upon beast. 11 And the magicians could not stand before Moses because of the boils; for the boil was upon the magicians, and upon all the Egyptians. 12 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses. 13 And the LORD said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me. 14 For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth. 15 For now I will stretch out my hand, that I may smite thee and thy people with pestilence; and thou shalt be cut off from the earth. 16 And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth. 17 As yet exaltest thou thyself against my people, that thou wilt not let them go? 18 Behold, to morrow about this time I will cause it to rain a very grievous hail, such as hath not been in Egypt since the foundation thereof even until now. 19 **Send therefore now, and gather thy cattle,** and all that thou hast in the field; for upon every man and beast which shall be found in the field, and shall not be brought home, the hail shall come down upon them, and they shall die. \* ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/204 "2005-03-16T05:55:46Z")
> [@Nolies](#): > > No a guy called Bullinger wrote a whole book on figures of speech in the bible… Do you feel he was divinely inspired? Should we tack the book of Bullinger on after Revelation? ---
**Author:** ![Nolies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/45deac/32.png) [@Nolies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nolies)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/205 "2005-03-16T05:59:50Z")
No more than your attempt to prove God exists out of time in which someone who has no biblical knowledge like me was able to dismantle with the incarnation… ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/206 "2005-03-16T06:00:29Z")
> [@Nolies](#): > > No a guy called Bullinger wrote a whole book on figures of speech in the bible… At the risk of insulting a man who probably was well intentioned for something he had no control over, I’ve got to say that that’s a singularly appropriate name! 🙂 Let me put this to you, **Nolies** , because the specifics of it haven’t come up in this thread yet. Most of us who are Christians believe in the veracity of Genesis 1-11 as **story**. The theory of historiography had not yet been invented when it was written; nobody was drawing a line between “factual account” and “fictional narrative.” To give you a quick parallel, it was the custom throughout the ancient world for writers (like Luke), not having verbatim shorthand accounts of what people said in formal addresses, to **reconstruct** the speech from such snippets as were preserved and the knowledge of the gist of what was conveyed. And nobody thought this was being dishonest, any more than if I said that **Nolies** said that people who aren’t Creationists are not solid Christians. This may or may not be true as describing your views, but I don’t recall you saying the exact words, “people who aren’t Creationists are not solid Christians.” Nonetheless, everybody hearing it would understand it as an _indirect quotation_, being my reporting of the **content** of what you said, not your precise words, as it would be if I left out the “that” and put it into quotation marks. In the latter case, I would be judged on whether I quoted you precisely and accurately; in the former one, on whether I accurately reported your views. In other words, for Moses (or the Priestly and Yahwist writers) to describe God’s acts in Creation, the account of Adam and Eve and the Fall, the Cain and Abel incident, and the Noah account, in **story** form, to be understood as such and not as a literal account of precise incidents, was something widely understood by the ancients, including Jesus’s contemporaries. Playing the “Well, Jesus spoke of Adam as a real person” game is absurd. He also spoke of the sunset; does that mean that He thought the Sun went around a stationary Earth? His referent was the person in the Creation and Fall stories, the same as if I commented about how so-and-so is a modern Christian knight of the round table. We both know the Arthurian stories; whether or not they contain any fact is secondary to the meaning of my characterization of so-and-so as chivalrous and upright. It’s no more calling them false than it is calling the Parable of the Good Samaritan or of the Prodigal Son false. They were stories told for a purpose. And at rock bottom, they convey **more** truth than the short account of King Jehoahaz in I or II Kings. ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/207 "2005-03-16T06:01:04Z")
Interesting stuff, **Nolies**. So, when scripture contradicts itself, obviously, we have figurative language. OK. In that case, the stories of creation in Genesis 1-2 are figurative, since they are contradictory. Whew, glad that’s over with. Thanks, everybody. Last one out hit the lights, ok? ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/208 "2005-03-16T06:02:25Z")
> [@Nolies](#): > > No more than your attempt to prove God exists out of time in which someone who has no biblical knowledge like me was able to dismantle with the incarnation… That wasn’t my argument. Why would an atheist try to prove God exists anywhere? I was just pointing you to a page that dealt with the issue from a Christian perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Nolies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/45deac/32.png) [@Nolies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nolies)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/209 "2005-03-16T06:11:58Z")
I’ve never heard so much BS in one post… All scripture is God breathed, Holy men of God wrote as they were moved by the spirit. You and your it is all an alogory doesn’t hold a lick of water… ---
**Author:** ![Nolies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/45deac/32.png) [@Nolies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nolies)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/210 "2005-03-16T06:14:03Z")
> [@](#): > > So, when scripture contradicts itself, obviously, we have figurative language. > > OK. In that case, the stories of creation in Genesis 1-2 are figurative, since they are contradictory. How are they contradictory? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/211 "2005-03-16T06:15:13Z")
> [@Nolies](#): > > someone who has no biblical knowledge like me This would explain why you keep posting anfd posting on the bible and continuously getting botrh your facts and your theology wrong. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/212 "2005-03-16T06:18:19Z")
> [@](#): > > How are they contradictory? Genesis 1:1 through 2:2 depicts a specific order of creation with the creation of humans (male and female) as the final act before God rests. The remainder of Genesis 2 reverses that order, having God create Adam first, and then the living creatures, and finally Eve. As you noted, you really do not know the bible. ---
**Author:** ![Nolies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/45deac/32.png) [@Nolies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nolies)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/213 "2005-03-16T06:19:58Z")
Well Mr Nebb How is my theology wrong? Because those who can’t accept that a GOD who could raise from the dead his son, can create the universe in six days… I have no doubt that my theology is correct I was once like these misguided people but that is part of maturing… And the renewing of your mind… ---
**Author:** ![Nolies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/45deac/32.png) [@Nolies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nolies)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/214 "2005-03-16T06:24:11Z")
This contraditory theory from those who say it is just a story… Haven’t you ever told the overview of a story and then gone in and told the details. How is this different… You who don’t take it as literal take it that way when you think you can debunk it. But you still fail… It literally happened, and God told us how and then told us some of the details that are important for salvation… ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/215 "2005-03-16T06:25:29Z")
> [@](#): > > How is my theology wrong? It is easier to note what part of your theology you have right: There is a God. Everything after that is generally error. It contradicts Scripture (except for your odd reading of Scripture based on your self-professed ignorance of the subject), it contradicts several thousand years of interpretation and tradition, and it contradicts the basic message that God loves us, replaced by your littler games of “gotcha.” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/216 "2005-03-16T06:29:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Haven’t you ever told the overview of a story and then gone in and told the details. > > How is this different… There is nothing in Genesis 1 that suggests that it is an overview. It actually provides more detail regarding the heavenly bodies, the types of life, and the order of animals created that chapter 2 does. You have to willfully misread the texts to pretend that chapter 2 gives the “details” to chapter 1. ---
**Author:** ![Nolies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/45deac/32.png) [@Nolies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nolies)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/217 "2005-03-16T06:54:47Z")
It is not games of gotcha But you can’t explain them… DDG tried but failed to explain the apparent lies of Jesus because she holds to thousands of years of interpretations. False ideology as to the nature of the LIVING God… It reminds me of the bible study that I have been going to. Two weeks ago they were studying evil in the world and how Christains should deal with it when bad thing happen. The teacher said that you shouldn’t say that it came from God unless you have some special revelation. But just two weeks later now that they are studying Healings when something happens that may be good like someone not getting killed in a car crash that is a miracle or cancer going into remission and God did it. They have no revelation to prove it just that they want to believe. I was the only one not to stand up when they asked if people believed that healings are happening. They passed around the mic and people gave stories of healing and miracles. I then pointed out that none of the miracles were anything that anyone could see. How many Christains get into their car and it won’t start. What do they do they say oh Lord please make it start. I asked if any had done that and they all nodded. When it starts you thank God for it working and drive away. But 20 min later you get in a fender bender. Why don’t you pray for God to fix the fender? Why because their heart tells them it won’t happen. Just like that is how all the supposed healing where… It is a wicked and adulterous generation that seeks after signs and wonders. So one week you shouldn’t give God credit for the unexplained and the next you should… This is one confused church… But the message from the pulpit is Grace Grace Grace. It is the best I have found it 9 years… I am used to being the outsider so I will keep going maybe they will convince me they are right. of maybe I will open thier eyes… One lady after the bible study who works for Witcliff in Portugal told me about a girl from the church who had just survived a car wreak that killed the passanger. She was found walking on the side of the highway with just a few bruises and scratches. Her seatbelt was still fastened so that meant that God pulled her out and it was a miracle. You couldn’t tell her any different and she is an elder in this church. I didn’t point out the obvious of if God pulled her out why did she have any scratches or bruises at all. Couldn’t he do it quick enough… ---
**Author:** ![Nolies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/45deac/32.png) [@Nolies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nolies)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/218 "2005-03-16T07:06:21Z")
> [@](#): > > _Genesis 5 And every plant of the field_\* before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew:\*\* for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. 6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. 8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. 10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads. 11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold; 12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone. 13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia. 14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates. 15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. 18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. 19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. 20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. 21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. \* Seems clear to me He now gets into detail of the creation of Adam and where he put him…It isn’t a second creation story… ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/219 "2005-03-16T07:09:41Z")
This gets more and more bizarre, but entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/220 "2005-03-16T07:10:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Seems clear to me He now gets into detail of the creation of Adam and where he put him…It isn’t a second creation story… I alredy noted that you could willfully misread it. You have merely demonstrated that I could recognize what you were going to do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885.md?page=12)