# How can Christians "believe" in Evolution **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 10, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885 "2005-03-10T19:40:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Nolies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/45deac/32.png) [@Nolies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nolies)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/221 "2005-03-16T07:19:15Z")
Dnebb You are the one willfully misreading it… LOL :smack: Where is this contradiction… God planted a garden eastward…LOL ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/222 "2005-03-16T07:49:38Z")
> [@Genesis 1](#): > > [sup]11[/sup] And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. > [sup]12[/sup] And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. > [sup]13[/sup] And the evening and the morning were the third day. Day three. No animals and no mankind. > [@Genesis 1](#): > > [sup]24[/sup]And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. > [sup]25[/sup]And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. Here we are on the fifth day, God has created the animals and looked upon it and seen that his creation was good–and still no humans. Then: > [@Genesis 1](#): > > [sup]26[/sup]And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. > [sup]27[/sup]So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. So **after** the animals have been created on the sixth day, then God creates male and female humans. In contrast: > [@Genesis 2](#): > > [sup]4[/sup] These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, > [sup]4[/sup] And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. > [sup]6[/sup] But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. > [sup]7[/sup] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. There is no life on the earth, not even plants. Then God raises a mist and waters the earth (no mention of plants growing, yet), then God creates a man before any other living thing. Next, > [@Genesis 2](#): > > [sup]8[/sup] And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. > [sup]9[/sup] And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food;… So _after_ God has created a man, he then plants a garden (still no animals the way it was described in Gn 1:25, so the order continues out of sequence). After which, > [@Genesis 2](#): > > [sup]18[/sup] And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. > [sup]19[/sup] And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. > [sup]20[/sup] And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. > [sup]21[/sup] And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; > [sup]22[/sup] And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. God finally makes the animals and then a woman, contradicting the story in Genesis 1 in which the man and woman are **both** created after the animals. This is not an overview followed by detail. These are two separate stories with a common message (the authorship of God) that contradict each other on the minor details that are not relevant because they are not intended as a scientific treatise. And you are, indeed, willfully misreading the actual account **s** in the bible. ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/223 "2005-03-16T11:27:32Z")
Also, **Nolies** , if you start calling Biblical contradictions figurative, then much of Joshua, Judges, Chronicles, and Kings becomes figurative (which obviously the redactors did not consider figurative). The early years of David’s life become “figurative” etc. And… drumroll… the crucifixion and resurrection become figurative, as the gospels do not agree. John even has Jesus crucified on a different day from the synoptic accounts. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/224 "2005-03-16T13:41:55Z")
Given our post-Einstein understanding of time as relative (its relation to space and motion), I don’t see how God (who doesn’t dwell at a particular point in physical space) could be otherwise than outside time. (This is tangent #… what? 8? 9?) ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/225 "2005-03-16T14:53:03Z")
> [@Nolies](#): > > Ever heard of a figure of speech? > …More people who use figures of speech as literal and the literal they take as a figure of speech… Nolies, you’re losing track of your own agenda. :rolleyes: Hellooo?? **YOU’RE** the one who is in here arguing for a literal interpretation of the Bible. And now, suddenly, some parts of the Bible are…_figures of speech_? Uh huh. :rolleyes: Please be so kind to elucidate for me (since I have already done it extensively for you) how you decide which parts of the Bible are to be taken literally, and which parts are to be taken as figures of speech or allegory. You know what? I don’t think you really _know_ WHAT you believe–I think you’re just in here parroting a Fundamentalist party line on Creation and Inerrancy, but beyond that, and a generalized cynical belief in a little-g god who isn’t really very powerful, I don’t think you know **what** you believe. Or **why** you believe it. One of the first verses that was pointed out to me as “very very important” by my grandma was 1 Peter 3:15: > [@](#): > > _But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:_ We’re told– **commanded** –to always be ready to explain what we believe, and why we believe it. > [@Nolies](#): > > If God created time. You make the assumption that time has something to do with the created universe. Well, yes, I make the assumption that Time, as the fourth dimension, was something that had to be created along with the other three dimensions. When the Universe came into being, whether it was via God or a non-denominational Big Bang, it brought along with it the concepts of Time and Space. Before there was Existence, there would have been no Time or Space, because Time and Space are a part of existence. > [@Nolies](#): > > No a guy called Bullinger wrote a whole book on figures of speech in the bible. [Yes, and…](http://www.pilkingtonandsons.com/BullingerBooks.htm) > [@](#): > > \*Figures of Speech Used In the Bible (#5169) by E. W. Bullinger. > > Bible students have made serious blunders through the inattention to figures of speech, clouding the real meaning of many important passages of Scripture. Bullinger’s work, first published in 1898, clarifies 217 distinct figures of speech used in the Bible. In systematic order, this classic gives the proper pronunciation of each figure of speech, its etymology or origin, and a number of Scripture passages where the figure of speech is used, giving full explanation of its use in each context. It cites nearly eight thousand Bible passages and includes five appendices and seven indexes, making it even more valuable as a reference tool. No other work approaches the scope and detail of this field of study. 1104pp HB $49.95\* …instead of answering Sample’s question about how you decide which parts are literal and which parts are figures of speech, you refer us to someone else and tell us, “Go read his book”? I see. And actually, I perceive that you yourself have not read Bullinger, nor are you familiar with the contents of his book. The phrase “figures of speech” in this context does not mean “allegory”. The phrase “figures of speech” is used here, as it was in 1898, when he wrote the book, to mean “rhetorical and oratorical devices”, not “things that are not literally true”. It means ways of talking, of speechifying, to make your speech more interesting. People in the 19th century were very big on orations and formal speech-making, so I can see why Bullinger would spend a considerable amount of time listing all the oratorical devices that crop up in the Bible. > [@](#): > > **[Dictionary definition:](http://www.answers.com/topic/figure-of-speech) "figure of speech > n., pl. figures of speech. > An expression that uses language in a nonliteral way, such as a metaphor or synecdoche, or in a structured or unusual way, such as anaphora or chiasmus, or that employs sounds, such as alliteration or assonance, to achieve a rhetorical effect."** Thus, your referring us to “read Bullinger on figures of speech in the Bible” I take to mean that you have not read his book, and that you are not familiar with what he’s saying: all you know is that there’s this book with the title “Figures of Speech in the Bible”, and you think that it must be dealing with allegories and metaphors in the Bible. Well, it’s not. A sampling of Bullinger dealing with Genesis 1 and 2 shows that he is indeed talking about rhetorical devices, not “metaphors and allegories”. > [@](#): > > [ul] > [li] Simple; where the Ellipsis is to be supplied from a preceding or a succeding clause ( **Genesis 1:30.** 2Corinthians 6:16).[/li] > And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground-everything that has the breath of life in it-I give every green plant for food." And it was so. > [li] An’-a-di-plo’-sis; or, Like Sentence Endings and Beginnings ( **Genesis 1:1,2.** Psalm 121:1,2). The word or words concluding one sentence are repeated at the beginning of another.[/li] > In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. > [li] Ple’-on-asm; or, Redundancy Where what is said is, immediately after, put in another or opposite way to make it impossible for the sense to be missed. The Figure may affect (1) words (Genesis 16:8); or (2) sentences ( **Genesis 1:20.** Deuteronomy 32:6).[/li] > And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky.” > [li] An-throp’-o-path-ei’-a; or, Condescension ( **Genesis 1:2;** 8:21. Psalm 74:11. Jeremiah 2:13. Hosea 11:10). Ascribing to God what belongs to human and rational beings, irrational creatures, or inanimate things[/li] > Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. > [li] Ben’-e-dic’-ti-o; or, Blessing ( **Genesis 1:22,28.** Matthew 5:3-11). An expression of feeling by way of benediction or blessing.[/li] > God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” > > God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.” > [li] Hen-di’-a-dys; or, Two for One ( **Genesis 2:9.** Ephesians 6:18). Two words used, but one thing meant.[/li] > And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground-trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. > [li] Par-ec’-bas-is; or, Digression ( **Genesis 2:8-15** ). A temporary turning aside from one subject to another.[/li] > Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground-trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. > > ``` > A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin and onyx are also there.) The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush. The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Asshur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates. The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. [/ul] > > ``` If you’re going to cite people, you ought to make sure they bolster **your** position before you quote them. > [@Nolies](#): > > They deny the obvious… > > When it say that all the cattle died in the plage in Egypt then several verses later it says that the cattle that remained need to be brought in to be saved from the hail… Talk about “denying the obvious”: there were other people living in Egypt besides Egyptians and Israelites. Obviously the Egyptians bought some starter cattle from their neighbors and started over. Also, there was a plague of boils in the intervening time period between the cattle plague and the plague of hail, and the Bible doesn’t say how much time elapsed between plagues. And since the gestation period of cattle is nine months, and since heifers can breed at 14 months old, it’s perfectly possible that several years passed between the cattle plague, the intervening plague of boils, and the plague of hail–plenty of time for the Egyptians to rebuild their herds. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/226 "2005-03-16T14:56:20Z")
Poop. [Linkie](http://www.godstruthfortoday.org/Library/bullinger/FiguresOfSpeech.html) for above Bullinger material. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/227 "2005-03-16T15:04:54Z")
> [@Nolies](#): > > \*6 And the LORD did that thing on the morrow, **and all the cattle of Egypt died** : but of the cattle of the children of Israel died not one. 7 And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go. 8 And the LORD said unto Moses and unto Aaron, Take to you handfuls of ashes of the furnace, and let Moses sprinkle it toward the heaven in the sight of Pharaoh. 9 And it shall become small dust in all the land of Egypt, and shall be a boil breaking forth with blains upon man, and upon beast, throughout all the land of Egypt. 10 And they took ashes of the furnace, and stood before Pharaoh; and Moses sprinkled it up toward heaven; and it became a boil breaking forth with blains upon man, and upon beast. 11 And the magicians could not stand before Moses because of the boils; for the boil was upon the magicians, and upon all the Egyptians. 12 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses. 13 And the LORD said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me. 14 For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth. 15 For now I will stretch out my hand, that I may smite thee and thy people with pestilence; and thou shalt be cut off from the earth. 16 And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth. 17 As yet exaltest thou thyself against my people, that thou wilt not let them go? 18 Behold, to morrow about this time I will cause it to rain a very grievous hail, such as hath not been in Egypt since the foundation thereof even until now. 19 **Send therefore now, and gather thy cattle,** and all that thou hast in the field; for upon every man and beast which shall be found in the field, and shall not be brought home, the hail shall come down upon them, and they shall die. \* Seems clear to me. All the cattle died EXCEPT the Isrealites. Verse 19 is telling the Isrealites to gather their cattle so it will not die. Or what **DDG** said. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/228 "2005-03-16T16:22:49Z")
> [@Sample\_the\_Dog](#): > > In Revelation 13:8, Jesus is referred to as “the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world.” Now the cross occurred at a precise moment of history. We know when the Lamb of God was slain. But the Bible says it occurred before the foundation of the world. How can an historical event which occurred at a certain spot on earth, in the biblical reckoning be said to have occurred before the earth was even made? Once again I have to question this interpretation of the word “Before.” As in Genesis 2, Where (I’m paraphrasing) “God brought the animals before Adam.” One meaning of before is “prior to”, but another is “in front of.” If I command you to stand before me, I’m telling you to stand in front of me, not to stand up prior to when I stand up. In this way, Jesus was slain in front of the whole world, very very publicly. Not in a place that didn’t exist yet. Makes much more sense to me that way. This is why I previously asked if someone had a different version (such as KJV) of these verses to compare and contrast. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/229 "2005-03-16T16:31:02Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > This is why I previously asked if someone had a different version (such as KJV) of these verses to compare and contrast. Screw it, I’ll do it myself. “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” (KJV) I have no idea what the hell that means, but to me the word “from” does not mean “prior to.” Best I can come up with is that it’s a pretty way of saying He was removed from the material world. There is no way I can twist it to mean that God has His thumb on the fast forward and rewind buttons of the universe. ---
**Author:** ![baronsabato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@baronsabato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/baronsabato)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/230 "2005-03-16T17:22:23Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Screw it, I’ll do it myself. > > “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” (KJV) > > I have no idea what the hell that means, but to me the word “from” does not mean “prior to.” Best I can come up with is that it’s a pretty way of saying He was removed from the material world. There is no way I can twist it to mean that God has His thumb on the fast forward and rewind buttons of the universe. My translation (American Standard) has it this way: “And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him, every one whose name hath not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that hath been slain.” It’s really awkwardly worded, but this translation makes the meaning clearer. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/231 "2005-03-16T17:53:49Z")
> [@baronsabato](#): > > My translation (American Standard) has it this way: > > “And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him, every one whose name hath not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that hath been slain.” > > It’s really awkwardly worded, but this translation makes the meaning clearer. **Very** awkwardly! But from that it looks like “foundation of the world” refers to everyone who has ever lived, and not about when the crucifixion occured. Looks like the NIV has dangled a participle. The 11th Commandment should read: Thou shalt not dangle words in the Good Book, which are participles. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/232 "2005-03-16T18:02:33Z")
Similarly, in Genesis when it is said that God created Adam, then created animals and brought them to Adam to have them named, every version I seen could reasonably be interpreted thus: Step 1: God creates Adam. Step 2: God brings forth the animals, which God created. Back in step 0. Did I mention step 0? No? Anyway, these created animals were, in step 2, brought before\* Adam. So there. Yes, I can see how in the NIV (and KJV) there is a contradiction, but one must bring a fairly anal interpretation to the reading. It’s a point of contention that I’d hesitate to bring to a debate. \*In front of, not prior to, althought not necessarily _not_ prior to, neither. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/233 "2005-03-16T18:21:19Z")
TDN, you need a bookmark for the [Bible Gateway.](http://www.biblegateway.com/) Nineteen translations, no waiting. 😃 Helpful footnotes, one-click “show this to me in another translation” updates. Foreign language versions, too, for the next time you need to look something up in the Korean Bible… ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/234 "2005-03-16T18:31:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Step 1: God creates Adam. > Step 2: God brings forth the animals, which God created. Back in step 0. Did I mention step 0? No? Anyway, these created animals were, in step 2, brought before\* Adam. So there. It could, but it didn’t. Look again: > [@Genesis 2](#): > > [sup]18[/sup] And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. > [sup]19[/sup] And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. > [sup]20[/sup] And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. It does not say simply that God went out and gathered the animals and brought them around for naming. It expressly says that the man was alone and out of the ground God formed the beasts to alleviate that condition. The authors of Genesis did mention step 0; it was back in Genesis 1: 24 - 25 where God created the animals _first_, and even took the time to see that it was good, prior to moving on to create humans. Now, if one is desperate enough to need all of scripture to be in perfect harmony, one might talk oneself into believing that the author just muddled the chronology, but when reading the text, the two chapters are in contradiction. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/235 "2005-03-16T18:33:57Z")
…so there. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/236 "2005-03-16T19:17:10Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > The authors of Genesis did mention step 0; it was back in Genesis 1: 24 - 25 where God created the animals _first_, and even took the time to see that it was good, prior to moving on to create humans. Fine, fine. Have it your way. Instead, I’ll just poke a little fun at Adam. “Um… Owl. Snail. Worm. Archaeopterix. Drosophila melanogaster. Uh… Cat. Gila monster. _snicker_ Dodo bird. Spotted leopard. Serpent. Ravenous angry horrible… eh, let’s just call it a bunny.” “Um, God? How much longer do I have to do this? Really? Oh, OK. Ant. Wild boar. Dromodary. Wallabee. _sigh_ Germs. Bat. Sheep.” “Mmmm, sheep…” “Adam!” boomed the Lord. “Leave that ‘sheep’ alone! And give me one of your ribs! Now, young man!” ---
**Author:** ![Greenback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/2bfe46/32.png) [@Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greenback)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/237 "2005-03-16T20:01:34Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Fine, fine. Have it your way. > > Instead, I’ll just poke a little fun at Adam. > > “Um… Owl. Snail. Worm. Archaeopterix. Drosophila melanogaster. Uh… Cat. Gila monster. _snicker_ Dodo bird. Spotted leopard. Serpent. Ravenous angry horrible… eh, let’s just call it a bunny.” > > “Um, God? How much longer do I have to do this? Really? Oh, OK. Ant. Wild boar. Dromodary. Wallabee. _sigh_ Germs. Bat. Sheep.” > > “Mmmm, sheep…” > > “Adam!” boomed the Lord. “Leave that ‘sheep’ alone! And give me one of your ribs! Now, young man!” hehe… I have always wondered how that went. ---
**Author:** ![Nolies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/45deac/32.png) [@Nolies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nolies)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/238 "2005-03-16T20:26:36Z")
In telling a story a true story, it is often that one tells things out of order. You could give a history of the US then go and talk about Jefferson as prez and after that talk about Washington. But in context of the first the reader knows, unless he is trying to be dumb the context of the next references. Read just about any book and you will get this it is a common literary style… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/239 "2005-03-16T20:48:35Z")
> [@Nolies](#): > > In telling a story a true story, it is often that one tells things out of order. You could give a history of the US then go and talk about Jefferson as prez and after that talk about Washington. But in context of the first the reader knows, unless he is trying to be dumb the context of the next references. Read just about any book and you will get this it is a common literary style… Well, no, it’s not a literary _style_, it’s a literary _technique_. Regardless, that’s not what’s happening here. What we’re talking about is a book that says on one page that Washington was president before Jefferson, and on another page that Jefferson was president before Washington. That’s not just moving back and forward in time within the narrative, that’s a blatant contradiction. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885/240 "2005-03-16T20:53:32Z")
What you say is true. But you don’t explicitly make Jefferson president before Washington if you’re doing that. **Read** what **Tom~** explained to you. Then take a look at your own Bible and see what terms are used for the Divinity in those chapters: Lord, LORD in caps., or God. You’ll find that the first story uses “God,” translating _elohim_. the plural noun meaning the one true God of Israel, and the second story “the LORD God,” translating God’s title and the Divine Name YHWH. You’ll note that the first story has a transcendent God overlooking all of Creation, while the second story has an immanent God who gets down into the dirt, literally, and creates Adam from it, and breathes life into him. You’ll note that the first story is repetitive, patterned, in how it tells of Creation; the second, in very much “storyteller mode” and focusing on mankind. You seem to be taking the attitude that unless it’s taken as historical exposition similar to an account of who was elected president when, it’s somehow less than true. But things like the 23rd Psalm and Jesus’s parables, to say nothing of stories like “Footsteps,” are not “less than true” for being other genres of writing than historical exposition. If anything, they pack **more** truth into a smaller space by being written as they are. While we’re off in hijack-land, may I ask your opinion of the Book of Job – what the author was doing, why it’s written as it is, and so on? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-christians-believe-in-evolution/293885.md?page=13)