# How can Donald Trump win at this point? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump, kamala-harris\ **Created:** [August 6, 2024, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351 "2024-08-06T21:13:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 108
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2142 "2024-09-16T16:53:00Z")
I wonder at the rather large percentage of Male Black voters who will not vote for Harris. They, like Female Black voters came out in droves for Obama. So while Harris is able to re-claim a lot of the female electorate, black male voters are either staying home or actually voting for Trump. Could this block (apparently about 25% of Black male voters) be the difference in the margins thus holding the EC for the Republicans? Anecdotally what is this? Black male misogyny? Fear that Black females are becoming more educated and possibly more wealthy? Anger that they are left behind like poor whites who lean Trump? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2143 "2024-09-16T17:19:32Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > His supporters aren’t a solid group. Neither are Harris’ supporters. They are all individual voters who are free to do what they want. That’s what gets lost when looking at just numbers and not people. And those numbers work in most cases. This is true and helps explain while Trump wasn’t able to push through agendas he had during his presidency. Even now I’m sure some Republicans are pissed off about the border bill. Here’s what gets me about Trump supporters: They don’t mind being lied to. JD Vance admitted the Haitian pet eating story was a lie. Marjorie Taylor Green admitted she lied about a supposed ABC whistleblower who said the presidential debate was rigged had died in an auto accident. Trump’s lies are easily verifiable. He lies about what he lied about. But most of his supporters seem fine with that. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2144 "2024-09-16T17:36:45Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > So while Harris is able to re-claim a lot of the female electorate, black male voters are either staying home or actually voting for Trump. So, you’re saying that 25% of all Black men hate Black women so much that they would rather vote for a white man who would reestablish slavery if he could get away with it? Forgive me if I don’t accept that. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2145 "2024-09-16T17:50:20Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Here’s what gets me about Trump supporters: They don’t mind being lied to. JD Vance admitted the Haitian pet eating story was a lie. I have to disagree. They hate being lied to. They truly believe that illegal^ Haitians immigrants are killing and eating people’s pets. Vance’s comments were not lies, merely frustrated at how hard it is to bring such issues up. As a fallback, it is absolutely true that Ohio citizens have called Vance’s office with evidence. While those callers may be lying, Vance isn’t. It’s the MSM that is doing the lying. You can’t believe anything they say. ^ Yes, the vast majority of Haitians in Springfield are legal residents, but the Trump supporters believe they are illegal. Even if they have documents, they’re illegal because the Democrats broke the law bringing them here. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2146 "2024-09-16T18:12:06Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > > [@Odesio](#): > > > > Here’s what gets me about Trump supporters: They don’t mind being lied to. JD Vance admitted the Haitian pet eating story was a lie. > > I have to disagree. > > They hate being lied to. They truly believe that illegal^ Haitians immigrants are killing and eating people’s pets. Vance’s comments were not lies, merely frustrated at how hard it is to bring such issues up. As a fallback, it is absolutely true that Ohio citizens have called Vance’s office with evidence. While those callers may be lying, Vance isn’t. It’s the MSM that is doing the lying. You can’t believe anything they say. > > ^ Yes, the vast majority of Haitians in Springfield are legal residents, but the Trump supporters believe they are illegal. Even if they have documents, they’re illegal because the Democrats broke the law bringing them here. People don’t like being wrong. People don’t like having to change their world view. They only need the slightest bit of “proof” to convince them. There is a widespread bodycam video of a black woman talking about eating a cat. I think it’s even from Ohio. By her lack of accent it’s obvious she’s not a Haitian immigrant but that’s enough to convince many there is enough truth in the story for them. She’s also obviously crazy. There is also a picture going around of a black man butchering some type of animal in a parking lot. By the plants and foreign license plates it was obviously not in America but “they” probably photoshopped that. Some will never be swayed but just enough might. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2147 "2024-09-16T18:23:33Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > They hate being lied to. They truly believe that illegal^ Haitians immigrants are killing and eating people’s pets. Vance’s comments were not lies, merely frustrated at how hard it is to bring such issues up. I think there are some deeper psychological issues at play here. It started with the Birther movement. Do I think most Republicans had any doubt where Obama was born? No. But they could use that issue to impugne his character so they went with it. I think most Republicans are perfectly aware that Trump lies. Frequently. These same Republians go through a lot of mental gymnastics to justify their support for Trump or to accept the lie. You’re right, there are certainly those who swallow the lies hook, line, and sinker. For most of MAGA I think something else is going on there. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2148 "2024-09-16T18:40:33Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > They hate being lied to. They truly believe that illegal^ Haitians immigrants are killing and eating people’s pets. I’ll bet most MAGAs didn’t know about it until Vance and then Trump platformed it on the national stage. And now they _want_ to believe it, because it plays well into their conception of other races and because they don’t want their leaders to be wrong. > [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > As a fallback, it is absolutely true that Ohio citizens have called Vance’s office with evidence. While those callers may be lying, Vance isn’t. We don’t know that any of those callers exist, let alone that they are Ohio residents. But we do know that Vance knows the story isn’t true because of his responses to Caitlin, that it was important that he “make up a story” to draw attention to the strains on the Springfield community. Plus there’s the whole thing of a grown adult having some semblance of reality. The idea that something this absurd is happening, and yet zero police reports have been filed, but people are calling their senator, should immediately ping the BS detector. > [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > It’s the MSM that is doing the lying. You can’t believe anything they say. What has the MSM got factually incorrect here? > [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > Yes, the vast majority of Haitians in Springfield are legal residents, but the Trump supporters believe they are illegal. Even if they have documents, they’re illegal because the Democrats broke the law bringing them here. And they’re wrong. Wishing that the law were different is not the same thing as someone being illegal, or breaking the law. For years republicans have claimed that they have no issue with immigration per se, only on people arriving illegally. Trump has said as much multiple times. Turns out it was BS. If you’re the wrong skin color, people still hate you and spread hateful myths about you. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2149 "2024-09-16T18:42:30Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Here’s what gets me about Trump supporters: They don’t mind being lied to. JD Vance admitted the Haitian pet eating story was a lie. Marjorie Taylor Green admitted she lied about a supposed ABC whistleblower who said the presidential debate was rigged had died in an auto accident. Trump’s lies are easily verifiable. He lies about what he lied about. But most of his supporters seem fine with that. That goes both ways. The internet was full of liberals who would not stop repeating that barely funny the first time joke about Vance as if it wasn’t anything but a blatant lie. There’s also been the “false flag” claims about the shots at Trump’s rally in Pennsylvania, misrepresentation of things he’s actually said in the past (disinfectant regarding covid, for example), things that keep getting brought up as “still probably true” like the “pee tape” and so on. I’m not going to defend Trump. He lies all the time about things both big and small and quite frankly the man should have already been in jail by now just from the classified documents case alone. But I find it very hard to care about people complaining about Trump’s lies when they’re perfectly happy to lie themselves. I suspect a number of potential voters look at such things and say “See, they’re all liars. Candidates and supporters both.” Makes it real easy to stay home. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2150 "2024-09-16T19:11:14Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > I have to disagree. > > They hate being lied to. No-They really don’t mind that they are being lied to, because the lying seems to work just fine and American are taught, almost from birth, that winners are better than losers, _no matter what methods they use to win with_. Vance was on CBS the other night and lied almost constantly, loudly and continuality, talked right over the host who tried to say what really happen (and failed miserably), and he show viewers that he had what it takes to steamroll the other side. The fact that what he had was a constant stream of bullshit and a total lack of manners really didn’t matter to far too many viewers-what happened in reality is that he got to give a free speech on national television. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2151 "2024-09-16T19:15:39Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Anecdotally what is this? As I understand it, her career as a prosecutor makes a lot of Black males uncomfortable. They incorrectly see her as a part of the mass incarceration system, targeting Black men to make her reputation. Luke Campbell from 2 Live Crew wrote harsh things about her, including personal attacks based on her dating San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown and then marrying a white man, Doug Emhoff. A lengthy series of inroads got her the chance to win him over with resurrect to her history of reentry programs to help lie level drug offenders, her stance on gun ownership and personal ownership of a gun. She also takes over her sins to assist Blacks to get better access to home ownership. He came around and admitted he was wrong, and spoke at the convention. The other challenge she faces is the reputation that Black candidates expect Black support without making an effort to help them. So she needs to show the Black community her programs and agendas for them. The third category is young Black males males supporting Trump. This article the author says it’s about the economy. Obama/Biden/Harris policies hurt his ability to earn a living in oil and gas, but Trump’s policies were good to him. He says the economy is why Black men support Trump. Remember when Trump was bragging about Black unemployment being the lies ever? > **[Here's Why Young Black Men Like Me Are Voting for Trump](https://www.newsweek.com/heres-why-young-black-men-like-me-are-voting-trump-opinion-1936455)** > > For me and many of my Black male friends, reelecting President Trump gives us the best opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2152 "2024-09-16T19:15:50Z")
I really can’t argue with you…mainly because arguing with people that are still “both-siding” at this late stage in the game, people still saying that the mouse and the moose are pretty much the same because they are both mammals, is just a waste of time. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2153 "2024-09-16T19:19:47Z")
How often do they get behind Black _females_ in positions of real power, let alone any females? Black male support for Shirley Chisholm was almost nonexistent if I recall correctly. ---
**Author:** ![veryfrank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/87869e/32.png) [@veryfrank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/veryfrank)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2154 "2024-09-16T19:31:06Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Luke Campbell from 2 Live Crew wrote harsh things about her, including personal attacks based on her dating San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown and then marrying a white man, Doug Emhoff. Nitpick: that was D.L. Hughley. I hadn’t heard Luke Campbell’s name in a while; man, 1990 was a rough time for music. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2155 "2024-09-16T19:45:29Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > The bubble he is taking about is the one that asserts everyone who is supporting Trump is evil. Just because they’ve been lied to does not make them evil. Just because they believe myths about the economy that they have been fed since before Reagan does not make them evil. The fact that they support bigotry & hate makes them evil. The fact that they support government by threats makes them evil. The fact that they support a known criminal makes them either foolish or evil. > [@Andiethewestie](#): > > I wonder at the rather large percentage of Male Black voters who will not vote for Harris. They, like Female Black voters came out in droves for Obama. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/09/09/harris-trump-biden-black-americans/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/09/09/harris-trump-biden-black-americans/) _Among Black registered voters, 82 percent say they will “definitely” or “probably” vote for Harris this November,_._.Harris’s support is even stronger among other segments of the Black electorate, including 80 percent support among Black men overall and 84 percent among Black women, 86 percent among Black voters ages 40 and older; 86 percent among those with at least a bachelor’s degree; and 81 percent among those with less formal education._ > [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Could this block (apparently about 25% of Black male voters) be the difference in the margins thus holding the EC for the Republicans? Note that altho 80% of black men said they will vote for Harris, the remaining 20% didnt say they’d vote for trump. > [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > Vance’s comments were not lies, merely frustrated at how hard it is to bring such issues up. As a fallback, it is absolutely true that Ohio citizens have called Vance’s office with evidence. While those callers may be lying, Vance isn’t. It’s the MSM that is doing the lying. You can’t believe anything they say. Yes, Vance was lying. And yes, in general you can trust the MSM. While they are slightly biased, and they want to show the news they think people want to see- mostly bad news- they are not lying to us. > [@Mijin](#): > > We don’t know that any of those callers exist, let alone that they are Ohio residents. Right. But I will bet some are real people- who are either lying or repeating a story they heard from their cousin’s girlfriend’s hairdresser. > [@asterion](#): > > The internet was full of liberals who would not stop repeating that barely funny the first time joke about Vance as if it wasn’t anything but a blatant lie. But see, the difference is- us Dems tell it as a clear joke, not as a fact. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2156 "2024-09-16T20:01:08Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > They hate being lied to. This, in my opinion, fundamentally misunderstands the relationship between Trump and his cultist followers, and then the further relationship that exists between them collectively and the rest of the world. Go back and remind yourself of the **[pigeon drop](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-tells-me-he-voted-twice-for-trump/1007087/72)** analogy. Got it? Okay. Now. Here’s the thing. Trump is not lying to his followers. He is saying: _Participate in this lie with me._ Help me. You are my ally as we fight ~~my~~ _our_ enemies. They are dishonest and crooked. They have no respect for the truth. We can fight fire with fire. We should not be constrained by the truth either. It’s irrelevant. It doesn’t matter. What matters is that we fight and we win. _We are in this together._ Trump’s followers don’t care about the lies because they understand they aren’t the ones being lied _to._ They think they are soldiers in a bigger war. And Trump is giving them ammunition. Edit to add: Sure, maybe there are a few true believers. But that’s not how this con works. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2157 "2024-09-16T20:56:17Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Trump is not lying to his followers. > > He is saying: > > _Participate in this lie with me._ > > Help me. You are my ally as we fight ~~my~~ _our_ enemies. They are dishonest and crooked. They have no respect for the truth. We can fight fire with fire. We should not be constrained by the truth either. It’s irrelevant. It doesn’t matter. What matters is that we fight and we win As **Czarcasm** put it, it’s about selling them that they’ll be “winners”, _whatever it takes_. And they’re buying the line, because else they’ll see themselves as losers. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2158 "2024-09-16T21:07:32Z")
Here’s another take on the thread title theme: [What if the Haitians-stealing-and-eating-your-pets is actually _good_ for the Trump campaign?](https://www.thebulwark.com/p/trump-is-the-main-character-of-2024) > [@](#): > > **Trump needs to be the main character.** Trump’s grand unified theory is that politics, like entertainment, is an attention economy. His strategy—always—is to dominate the news and make himself into the main character of every story. . . . > > People seem to think that the Springfield story is bad for Trump _because_ it is predicated on a lie. > > This is incorrect. > > The Springfield story is _good_ for Trump because it is predicated on a lie. > > If the tale of Haitian immigrants stealing people’s pets and eating them were true, then it would be one-day affair. He sure is the main character today. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2159 "2024-09-16T21:18:21Z")
Well. I guess Trump is magic and cannot, will not, ever lose. Everyone else just as soon pack up and go home. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2160 "2024-09-16T21:22:01Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > They hate being lied to. No, they don’t; they don’t care at all. They don’t care about facts or logic or internal consistency. What matters to them is faith, loyalty, and cruelty. Faith: Belief in what they are told or want to believe in direct contradiction of what they can see to be true is a virtue to them; the more obviously false the belief, the more of a virtue it is to deny reality and believe it anyway. Loyalty: Following and praising the Leader is also a virtue, doing so is more of a virtue the worse the leader is because that shows greater devotion. Cruelty: The essence, the _core and purpose_ of the Right for as long as the concept has existed. Trump offers to them, and they _want_ it. More than life itself, they want it. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2161 "2024-09-16T21:23:07Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Well. I guess Trump is magic and cannot, will not, ever lose. Everyone else just as soon pack up and go home. I didn’t write the thread title. I guess someone could start a Trump can’t win thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351.md?page=107) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351.md?page=109)