# How can Donald Trump win at this point? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump, kamala-harris\ **Created:** [August 6, 2024, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351 "2024-08-06T21:13:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 145
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2885 "2024-10-17T22:30:26Z")
Tonight the crowd of noisy trumpies waving flags on a nearby street corner was bigger and more enthusiastic than ever. Probably 25 people. Those folks are fired up regardless of whether their Dear Leader is alive, dead, or in the twilight betwixt. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2886 "2024-10-18T00:20:59Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > I like Obama, but I have to agree that he showed little urgency on getting judges nominated and confirmed until losing his majority was imminent. That’s only a somewhat fair objection. It largely ignores the actual context of the era - there had not been in modern history the sort of opposition that actually occurred in Congress. The Senate rules of that time required more than holding a majority - back then you needed 60 votes (which they did not ever have) due to the abuse of the filibuster. Those rules have since been changed to requiring merely a simple majority. It wasn’t a matter of ‘urgency’ but of either convincing some GOP Senators to act in concert with them or getting rid of the filibuster for judicial nominations, which many Democratic Senators were not yet ready to support because the opposition they eventually saw was literally unprecedented. So, no, it wasn’t a lack of “balls” on Obama’s part. It was not something he could just mandate or emphasize or just do. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2887 "2024-10-18T00:59:47Z")
IMHO … more often than not, **cancelled events** mean _very low turnout predicted …_ better to call it off, than expose you aren’t drawing crowds (didn’t JLo call off a tour to “dedicate herself more to her family”??? … [insert any BS excuse]) ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2888 "2024-10-18T01:12:34Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > [Vance is] an adherant of an actual fascist neomonarchist and hand picked by Peter Theil who is also an adherant of the same guy. Donald only dreams of the type of control they seek. You could easily be right. But I think that Vance is not really a Trumper at heart, is interested mostly in his own power and advancement, and not as evil as Trump. He _could_ choose just to be a normal president, whereas Trump will definitely be evil. IOW, Vance could be worse than Trump, but Trump will definitely be bgad. > [@](#): > > I meant US History, in particular elections. There are numerous popular vote winners who lost the EC. The EC selected winner took office. It’s the very definition of legitimate. Actually, there have only been five presidents who lost the popular vote, and, of these, two have been recent (Dubya in 2000 and Trump in 2016): > **[List of United States presidential elections in which the winner lost the popular vote](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_elections_in_which_the_winner_lost_the_popular_vote)** > > There have been five United States presidential elections in which the successful presidential candidate did not receive a plurality of the popular vote, including the 1824 election, which was the first U.S. presidential election where the popular vote was recorded. In these cases, the successful candidate secured less of the national popular vote than another candidate who received more votes, either a majority, more than half the vote, or a plurality of the vote. > In the U.S. presidential el... So it’s not “numerous.” Legitimate or not is a matter of opinion. I certainly don’t think it’s a good thing for the country when it happens. > [@](#): > > Deliver a landslide up and down the ballot? Mkay, but then if the bad guy wins, he gets to declare himself dictator? Because, reality check, that’s actually what we’re dealing with right now. > [@](#): > > Well, that is technically what the EC was created to do. However that ability has been watered down by subsequent practices, like the winning candidate’s party selecting the delegates. Yeah, the EC is and has always been a tool of white hegemony and is an ongoing failure and embarrassment. > [@](#): > > Look, if the Republicans win and start disregarding the Constitution, especially doing away with voting, then the Constitution is no longer in play, and we get Civil War II or Revolution II, depending on the scenario. But either of those is so drastic to take a very strong provocation. I think the nutso actions of the illegitimate Supreme Court are already a “strong provocation.” But, strategically speaking, I do think we need more for a successful revolution. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2889 "2024-10-18T02:10:57Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > He’s an adherant of an actual fascist neomonarchist My sense remains that there is no there there. His mask with no actual beliefs of his own, only the desire to be approved of by those who is always afraid will otherwise beat him up. It is a mask but not one covering up someone with an actual shred of decency. He would be worse than Trump because Trump is simply easy to manipulate but wants be in charge, while Vance is toady through and through, looking for some missing father figure to take orders from. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2890 "2024-10-18T10:46:59Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > He would be worse than Trump because Trump is simply easy to manipulate but wants be in charge, while Vance is toady through and through, looking for some missing father figure to take orders from. I think this is the reason why Vance would _not_ be worse than Trump. Vance is evil because he’s the toady, currently, of a genuinely evil person, Trump. In a scenario in which Vance took over from a deceased or incapacitated Trump, Vance would be the toady of someone else. Probably just the basic GOP capitalist interests and not someone who wishes to engage in gratuitous evil and chaos. It would most likely be Romney-esque biz as yuzh. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2892 "2024-10-18T11:11:40Z")
Whut-whoa: early voting in Georgia is _crushing_ the 2020 level, which was already a record: 200,000 more early votes than in the last election! > **[Trump STRICKEN with Bad News…in GEORGIA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5AahGtkNNg%2F)** > > Bad news for Trump as Georgia early voting numbers are double the turnout of 2020, especially in and around the Democratic strong hold of Atlanta. Michael Po... Michael Popok here says that if Dems have a 17% advantage in early voting and the bad guys have a 9% advantage on election day voting, which are averages, Harris will easily win Georgia. We get that and Pennsylvania, and it’s game over for Trump. He really emphasizes how crazy this early voting total is: people thought that post-covid, it would return to “normal” levels. Quite the opposite! But perhaps most of these early voters are impassioned Trumpers, craving to make official their support for the Orange Christ–LMFAO!!! ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2893 "2024-10-18T11:16:07Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1008947/5): > > It sounds as if you hold that ridiculing both candidates is an error? > > I find the notion that applying a label (“bothsiderism”) is some sort of substantive complaint to be kind of silly. Are you a native speaker of English? Both of these sentences are off in ways both subtle and unsubtle. I’m an interpreter and translator of Japanese by trade, so I’m fairly sensitive to such things. And yes, your guess as to why I’m asking is absolutely correct. > [@](#): > > But yes; it is my personal opinion that Kamala Harris is intellectually mediocre at best […] Feel free to provide _any_ fucking reason why you think so. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2894 "2024-10-18T11:21:21Z")
I’ll take intellectually mediocre over intellectually bankrupt any day. Harris is anything BUT mediocre. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2897 "2024-10-18T11:46:57Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > It is a mask but not one covering up someone with an actual shred of decency. He would be worse than Trump because Trump is simply easy to manipulate but wants be in charge, while Vance is toady through and through, looking for some missing father figure to take orders from. Perhaps. It seems accurate. But if so, the father figure he’s chosen isn’t Trump, it’s Peter Theil. > [@Aeschines](#): > > In a scenario in which Vance took over from a deceased or incapacitated Trump, Vance would be the toady of someone else. Probably just the basic GOP capitalist interests and not someone who wishes to engage in gratuitous evil and chaos. One can hope, but my sense is it would not be old school generic Republican. He’s a pet project of Peter Theil, who has basically created his career since college. He got him a finance job with one buddy, then another buddy, then funded Vance’s own company, then Vance’ Senate campaign, and finally Trump’s VP. Theil is who Vance owes allegiance, not Trump. Trump is just a means to power. Hey, I know how I sound with all this. It sounds just like that CT nonsense about George Soros. Except Peter Theil actually funded and guided Vance. And the guy they take inspiration from is a blogger who actually advocated that democracy is overrated and a better system is autocracy, a tech corporation dictatorship that’s been described as neomonarchy. This stuff is real, not the imagined droolings of the Right about liberal “Communists”. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2900 "2024-10-18T12:13:52Z")
A post was merged into an existing topic: [Hunh is a disinfo troll](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunh-is-a-disinfo-troll/1008947/11) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2901 "2024-10-18T12:13:00Z")
2 posts were merged into an existing topic: [Hunh is a disinfo troll](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunh-is-a-disinfo-troll/1008947/9) ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2902 "2024-10-18T12:43:49Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > [Vance is] a pet project of Peter Theil, who has basically created his career since college. He got him a finance job with one buddy, then another buddy, then funded Vance’s own company, then Vance’ Senate campaign, and finally Trump’s VP. Theil is who Vance owes allegiance, not Trump. Trump is just a means to power. I agree that Vance is just faking Trumpism for his own benefit. But I am curious whether he is the type who ends up showing allegiance to anyone. He might end up being a toady to Theil, or he might be pulled in several different directions at once, which is the norm in politics (i.e., trying to please a coalition as a whole). Now, I think Trump has a coalition too, but he’s much less practical and indulges his own fascist and authoritarian tendencies just for the fuck of it. > [@](#): > > Hey, I know how I sound with all this. It sounds just like that CT nonsense about George Soros. Except Peter Theil actually funded and guided Vance. And the guy they take inspiration from is a blogger who actually advocated that democracy is overrated and a better system is autocracy, a tech corporation dictatorship that’s been described as neomonarchy. Oh, I agree. This stuff is right out there in the open. I think part of it, however, is Vance’s immaturity. He’s still a bit like the teen who thinks Ayn Rand really figured it all out and just wants to run with that world-changing ideology. But Vance can and probably will grow out of that. In contrast, Trump is all political id. He’s neither an ideologue nor (lmfao) intellectual. None of this should be taken to imply that I think Vance should be anything other than permanently canceled in politics, which I think he will be after Trump goes down for the final time on election day. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2903 "2024-10-18T13:05:44Z")
There are a LOT of genuinely MAGAty reps in congress & throughout state-level politics in many (most?) states. They’re not merely pro-trump they’re pro- the messages and goals of MAGA: white pride, economic nationalism, political isolationism, disassembly of the Federal regulatory establishment, anti-education, pro fundamentalist Xianism, etc. The demise of trump (whether politically or physically) will not uninvent those ideas, nor un-elect those politicians. Nor shut down the for-profit propaganda pushing those ideas. Nor the nihilist propaganda pushed by Russian & Chinese funding. If Vance is left in the cat-bird seat when trump’s music stops, he can certainly choose to keep playing the same tune. His own governing instincts (can’t call 'em principles) are different, but they’re still primitive and reactionary. E.g. more male supremacy than white supremacy, but white and male go together in US RW politics like PB & J. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2904 "2024-10-18T13:29:19Z")
I agree that none of the underlying issues disappear the day Trump casts off this mortal coil. But I do think he plays a unique ubermensch role that is not easily replaced. Witness all the infighting in the various state GOP machineries. The old saw about how Republicans fall in line needs a suffix phrase: when Trump tells them to. There seems to be some ferocious knife fights in places. Anyway, I think the MAGA madness continues in T’s absence, but a bit rudderless and unintentionally dysfunctional. Vance will not be Trump Jong Un, I don’t think. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2905 "2024-10-18T13:52:25Z")
It’s possible that upon the Demise of Trump, no one is able to grasp the reins, and the chaos evident in the House of Representatives prevents Vance, or anyone, of directing the chaos. That would be a refreshing outcome. Not as satisfying as the bulk of the Republicans coming to their senses and marginalizing the crazy ones, but an acceptable outcome versus the current status. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2906 "2024-10-18T14:05:24Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The demise of trump (whether politically or physically) will not uninvent those ideas, nor un-elect those politicians. Nor shut down the for-profit propaganda pushing those ideas. Nor the nihilist propaganda pushed by Russian & Chinese funding. Those ideas are pretty weak without Trump, however, nor do they have some sort of common political vector. Trump himself wasn’t really into them either (to the extent that he advanced them, he did so through his own narcissistic tendencies and feelings and conditioning from his childhood, not through any ideology). That’s why MAGA is centered on a cult of personality, not a coherent ideology. Trump can’t be replaced, and when he goes (or, soon, just loses), MAGA will die. > [@](#): > > If Vance is left in the cat-bird seat when trump’s music stops, he can certainly choose to keep playing the same tune. He can’t, really. He tries, pretty poorly, to cover for Trump on a lot of things without positively expressing them himself. For example, he can’t trash immigrants when his own wife is the child of Indian immigrants. And I don’t think he believes that message anyway. Right now, it’s the cornerstone of Trump’s campaign. > [@](#): > > His own governing instincts (can’t call 'em principles) are different, but they’re still primitive and reactionary. E.g. more male supremacy than white supremacy, but white and male go together in US RW politics like PB & J. I think he’s more pro-natalist than male-supremacist, though his message has been needlessly misogynistic. I think this has been the Thiel and bro bullshit rubbing off on him; i.e., the “primitive and reactionary” instincts you cite, though I would call it more of an aesthetic in his case. > [@Stratocaster](#): > > I agree that none of the underlying issues disappear the day Trump casts off this mortal coil. But I do think he plays a unique ubermensch role that is not easily replaced. Yes. And the underlying issues will, in some sense, disappear, or rather attenuate, as they will have lost their catalyzing and unifying force, i.e., Trump. > [@](#): > > Witness all the infighting in the various state GOP machineries. Yes, the GOP will be in terrible shape. > [@](#): > > Anyway, I think the MAGA madness continues in T’s absence, but a bit rudderless and unintentionally dysfunctional. Vance will not be Trump Jong Un, I don’t think. Yes, and I don’t think Vance is really interested in MAGA anyway. He wants to be president, period. He doesn’t care how it happens (note to Vance: it won’t). ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2907 "2024-10-18T14:14:06Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > For example, he can’t trash immigrants when his own wife is the child of Indian immigrants. Why not? Trump’s wife is an immigrant (though not a “brown” one) and his #1 issue is immigration. Republicans don’t do consistency, and hypocrisy is their stock in trade. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2908 "2024-10-18T14:42:56Z")
I don’t necessarily foresee R disarray after Trump. Sure, you’ll see different folk competing for power, but their consistent message has been protecting the wealthy and getting re-elected - maximizing their minority advantages through gerrymandering, disproportionate representation in the Senate, and the electoral college. I think they’ve proven themselves pretty capable at shifting their focus and completely contradicting themselves whenever it serves those 2 goals. No matter how fragmented the extremists get, whatever “moderate” Rs remain will continue to pander to them for fear of being primaried. Trump has broken the R party. Whatever values it may previously have represented, long after Trump it will remain the party of wealth/white protection, and the victimization of any group that will further that goal. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/2909 "2024-10-18T14:46:59Z")
True, Republicans are hypocrites in general. Vance can try any message he wants, but a hypocritical message is not going to stick well beyond GOP true believers, and without Trump, there will be much fewer true believers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351.md?page=144) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351.md?page=146)