# How can Donald Trump win at this point? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump, kamala-harris\ **Created:** [August 6, 2024, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351 "2024-08-06T21:13:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1081 "2024-08-22T16:25:37Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > You have some valid points, but I disagree with this one. Historically, Republicans have represented at least a nominally defensible conservative ideology, while Democrats have represented a defensible liberal ideology. The former is no longer true, but even when it **was** true, Republicanism was characterized by a strong element of selfishness, with the idea that “I’ve got mine, and if you’re less fortunate, it’s your own damn fault”. But that is what YOU believe. YOU believe their perspective is to harm others. I’m sorry, but, again you are projecting onto other people what YOU believe their position is. There are a few people on the right like that, sure, but there’s always jerks and nuts. What most Trumpists think is that their ideology is genuinely better for people than yours. They genuinely and truly believe their side will, as the old saying goes, cause a tide that raises all boats. They genuinely believe the left is full of people who will implement socialism that will objectively hurt most people more than their side will help them. That is how these people think. Those are the facts as they see them. Are they correct? Nope, I’m not saying that. But they really do think they’re the side of right and justice and goodness. Try hearing them. The people “peeling away from the cult” are very few in number and are mostly, as you yourself point out, insiders who actually worked with Trump and can see what a detestable scumbag he is, which of course 99.99% of voters can’t personally experience. We are at the end of the DNC, a thing that gives a party a bump, and Harris is three points ahead, which is essentially MOE territory and possibly not enough for her to win the EC. The race in critical states is basically a tie. > [@The\_Librarian](#): > > You can absolutely be objectively be evil and still believe you are on the side of angels. Your own beliefs about yourself do not matter _at all_. > > Anyone voting for Trump after 2016 is evil. End of story. I didn’t say otherwise, though, did I? You’re addressing a point I never made. > [@Stratocaster](#): > > Bingo. All the talk about MAGAs believing they are the good guys is pointless. Sure, they think they’re the good guys. So did the Nazis. And the slave owners. They’re wrong. Well it literally is the point when someone says that they know they’re evil and are deliberately voting for evil. No, they don’t, that is false, and I’m going to point out things that are false. And when people use this sort of thing to say “lol there’s no way Trump wins” they’re fooling themselves and setting up a scenario for Trump to actually win - which would be disastrous. If you want Harris to win you wanna hope her campaign doesn’t relay on the utter stupidity of saying Trump voters are just evil and the hell with them. Harris needs to peel off a few points of Trump support AND make sure RFK’s supporters don’t mostly go Trump, and that can only be done by positive, effective campaigning on issues that matter to them and can draw them into the Harris camp. Health care, economic opportunity, things like that. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1082 "2024-08-22T16:29:11Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Well it literally is the point when someone says that they know they’re evil and are deliberately voting for evil. No, they don’t, that is false, and I’m going to point out things that are false. Plus…we’re not actively at war with them. These are people we live with (often in our own families) and work with and will continue to do so after November. There has to be hope that some are reachable. Or at least that they can eventually be made politically irrelevant/harmless. The alternative is to write off a bunch of grandparents, uncles, aunts, parents, siblings, etc as evil and not worth engaging with. I don’t want to live in the sort of world they are (often unwittingly) trying to create, but I also don’t want to live in the sort of world where we have written all of them off so cavalierly. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1083 "2024-08-22T16:40:41Z")
Not to burst anyone’s bubble, but this article (gift link) fills me with despair: > **[Opinion | Why These 15 Young Voters Aren't Rushing to Kamala Harris Like...](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/08/22/opinion/young-voters-focus-group.html?unlocked_article_code=1.E04.NVs-.Kv2HpOpFkcd-&smid=url-share)** > > Participants discuss what it would take for Harris or Trump to win their votes. Out of the 15 so-called “young voters” interviewed who were asked who they would vote for if the election was held today, exactly _zero_ of them said they would vote for Harris, 5 said they would vote for Trump, 8 said they would vote for “someone else,” and one said he wouldn’t vote. From their responses, these are well-informed people (or at least they think they are) and engaged enough to participate in this political Q&A and the question about who they would vote for followed many others about Trump’s conduct during his term in office and on January 6th. Eight of them say that Trump scares them, and 13 of the 15 say that _Harris_ scares them. There’s lots of discussion about policy, and few of them seem to realize that Trump doesn’t actually have any coherent or consistent policies. They don’t seem to realize that Trump and his cohort are an existential threat to our democracy. I’m continually reminded of P.J. O’Rourke‘s comment about endorsing Hillary Clinton in 2016 because while she was supposedly “wrong about absolutely everything,” she was “wrong within normal parameters.” Like the last two presidential elections with Trump as the Republican nominee, this is not a policy election. I don’t understand why these young voters don’t seem to realize that, or why 9 of them plan to throw their votes away. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1084 "2024-08-22T16:43:58Z")
They’re too young to remember what we think is ‘normal’. Trump and the general MAGA trend IS normal to them. He’s been either a candidate or President for all of their adult lives and, for most of them, pretty much all their lives after hitting puberty. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1085 "2024-08-22T16:48:09Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Well it literally is the point when someone says that they know they’re evil and are deliberately voting for evil. No, they don’t, that is false, and I’m going to point out things that are false. Yes, this is the semantical irrelevancy I was addressing. If you support something that is evil, you are in the thrall of evilness. The fact that you think it’s good and virtuous is not relevant. It’s trivially accurate to point out that they wouldn’t define hateful, racist, misogynistic oppression as “bad.” They’d deny there’s anything hateful at all about their hatefulness. They now know, unless they’ve lived under a rock, the degree of Trump’s baseness. “But they don’t consider it base.” So what? They know he considers neo-Nazis “very fine people” and considers separating families of desperate asylum seekers acceptable. There’s no hiding behind “let’s see what the new guy does” expectations. They’ve _knowingly_ embraced evil. They know the nature of this thing they’ve embraced, and they applaud it. There’s no misunderstanding, just pointless semantical debates. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1086 "2024-08-22T16:53:02Z")
> [@robby](#): > > don’t understand why these young voters don’t seem to realize that, or why 9 of them plan to throw their votes away. Maybe it’s a good thing youth turnout is so low. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1087 "2024-08-22T16:56:42Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Not to burst anyone’s bubble, but this article (gift link) fills me with despair: A sample size of 15 is meaningless, and if it fills you with despair I don’t know what to tell you. That’s not very different from saying Trump is going to win because all my cousins are supporting him. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1088 "2024-08-22T17:00:07Z")
In a sample size of about 12 20-somethings in New Jersey, they’re all enthused Old Man Biden is out and Harris is in and it sounds like they’re planning to vote Harris. They are all college educated and New Jersey. I’m not even trying to make a point, the Times writer was trying to publish an article and get clicks. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1089 "2024-08-22T17:00:12Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Not to burst anyone’s bubble, but this article (gift link) fills me with despair: Frank Luntz is the guy who, when accused of Orwellian language, said (paraphrased): “Orwell was a master political analyst, so when someone accuses me of being Orwellian, I take it as a compliment.” It’s impossible to parody someone who so clearly delights in parodying himself. He moderated that panel. Anyone who knew who they were going to vote for was excluded from that panel. Don’t take it too seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1090 "2024-08-22T17:10:59Z")
Conservatives who object, with some reason in some cases, to people “getting something for free” often do not express a problem with corporate subsidies, tax credits, lobbying, creating law, loose PAC funding rules, lax community health regulations or the idea that many things in health depend on most people having access to , and buying in, to modern treatments. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1091 "2024-08-22T17:11:07Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Anyone who knew who they were going to vote for was excluded from that panel. It reminds me a lot of a tack CNN often takes where they fish around among hundreds of minority voters to find a few who will go on camera and complain about a given Democrat. They string together three, four, five sound bites and make it seem like, say, “_African-American voters are completely in the bag for Trump_”. It’s part of horse race reporting. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1092 "2024-08-22T17:12:00Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Out of the 15 so-called “young voters” interviewed who were asked who they would vote for if the election was held today, exactly _zero_ of them said they would vote for Harris, 5 said they would vote for Trump, 8 said they would vote for “someone else,” and one said he wouldn’t vote. It wasn’t until I clicked on the article that I realized that these were not a random sample of young voters, but a sample of “undecided” young voters. At the risk of sounding dismissive, I’m gonna say this anyway. Anyone who is “undecided” in this crucial election that puts America at a historical crossroads in its history has got to be a low-information moron. This is not a choice between ideologies. This is a choice between democracy and the clearly stated fascist objectives of Project 2025 led by an unhinged self-admitted wannabe dictator whose only goal is self-enrichment, vengeance, and raw power. And also, staying out of jail. . ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1093 "2024-08-22T18:13:12Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Trump also helpfully informed the National Association of Black Journalists that “many of you are Black”. No shit Sherlock. > [@RickJay](#): > > - Trump is not going to dump Vance (I don’t think he even can, anyway) and Vance will not hurt Trump’s chance to any significant degree. > - The race is close and Trump has a very good chance of winning. I concur on the first. On the second, I would say- a good chance, taking out the very. > [@wolfpup](#): > > At the risk of sounding dismissive, I’m gonna say this anyway. Anyone who is “undecided” in this crucial election that puts America at a historical crossroads in its history has got to be a low-information moron. This is not a choice between ideologies. This is a choice between democracy and the clearly stated fascist objectives of Project 2025 led by an unhinged self-admitted wannabe dictator whose only goal is self-enrichment, vengeance, and raw power. I have to totally agree also. Fence sitters here are kinda lost. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1094 "2024-08-22T18:14:49Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Frank Luntz is the guy who, when accused of Orwellian language, said (paraphrased): “Orwell was a master political analyst, so when someone accuses me of being Orwellian, I take it as a compliment.” It’s impossible to parody someone who so clearly delights in parodying himself. > > He moderated that panel. > > Anyone who knew who they were going to vote for was excluded from that panel. > > Don’t take it too seriously. > [@wolfpup](#): > > It wasn’t until I clicked on the article that I realized that these were not a random sample of young voters, but a sample of “undecided” young voters. > > At the risk of sounding dismissive, I’m gonna say this anyway. Anyone who is “undecided” in this crucial election that puts America at a historical crossroads in its history has got to be a low-information moron. This is not a choice between ideologies. This is a choice between democracy and the clearly stated fascist objectives of Project 2025 led by an unhinged self-admitted wannabe dictator whose only goal is self-enrichment, vengeance, and raw power. I evidently glossed over the significance of the panel of young voters all being “undecided.” So definitely not a random sample. Thanks for talking me off the ledge. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1095 "2024-08-22T19:02:54Z")
Trump is not ‘cunning’. He’s a baby in a playpen screaming for attention. He asked to be put in this playpen, and now gets a LOT of attention. His MAGA supporters are now getting some attention. There are what,1200 of them in prison? ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1096 "2024-08-22T19:03:29Z")
Here’s a way Trump can win. Keep his core and add middle of the road people (or D fringe/Independents). I just watched Trump be pretty normal during a 57min interview. It’s been viewed probably 10 million times already, likely by fairly normal people. For his campaign, it’s great content that is now out in the wild. It was on a podcast/youtube, This Past Weekend with Theo Von. Theo Von is a comedian in the Joe Rogan circle of comedians. Theo Von had Bernie Sanders on the previous week. Theo is good friends with comedian Dana Carvey. I’m just saying this to say it’s a fairly normal/typical podcast type show and will be watched by people outside the core Trump supporter circle. Trump and Theo talked about drugs and alcohol a lot, boxing/MMA, politics, etc. Trump never said anything weird or conspiracy - not really and certainly compared to what I’m used to. Trump was curious and asked Theo genuine questions (about Theo’s addiction problems - Trump is completely naïve about drugs and addition). Anyways, Trump can be normal if he wants to be and lots of people see it. With that said, Trump did miss lots of jokes that went right over his head, and the last 12’ish mins seemed to get more and more typical “Trump”. Anyways, just putting it out there that this content exists and is seen by millions of people. ---
**Author:** ![2nd\_Law](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/f475e1/32.png) [@2nd\_Law](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2nd_Law)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1097 "2024-08-22T19:21:18Z")
Why does that website show the wrong number of electoral votes? There are 538 EV’s, and if you look at that chart the numbers do not add up correctly. Did I miss something? ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1098 "2024-08-22T19:21:37Z")
David Pakman had some clips of that on there and said it was the most real he’d seen Trump be. I’d agree. He was actually, you know, _talking_ to someone. That’s pretty rare, though, and I don’t think he can keep it up, nor do I think he can avoid spoiling any such image remediation by yapping insanely and aggrievedly at his rallies. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1099 "2024-08-22T19:23:10Z")
Meanwhile, Harris is gaining on Trump in… Texas?! Pretty disastrous poll for his Orangeness (and Ted Cruz): [https://www.chron.com/politics/article/poll-kamala-harris-trump-19716652.php](https://www.chron.com/politics/article/poll-kamala-harris-trump-19716652.php) ---
**Author:** ![GailForce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@GailForce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GailForce)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1100 "2024-08-22T19:23:18Z")
Trump’s plan is obvious to me: he wins 200-odd Electoral College votes by dint of being a repulsive, vulgar rightwing nutter, and then he counts up the EC votes in whichever states he lost but came closest to winning in. Doesn’t matter if he lost them by .001 % or 15%, just whichever ones would give him an EC victory, and his minions in those states scream “Fraud!” incessantly, with the people he’s packed the vote-counting and -certifying process with filing specious lawsuit after specious lawsuit, plus rioting in the streets, blather from his supporters at Fox, and other RW media, and general unrest, in the hope that Supreme Court votes 6-3 to consider his emergency appeal (see Bush v. Gore, 2000) and then rules 6-3 in his favor to throw the election into the House of Representatives where he wins the election fair and square. The Dems then shove a finger up their nostrils, and say “Too bad, but them’s the breaks.” Everything between now and Election Day is just entertainment. The campaign starts in earnest on Nov. 6. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351.md?page=56)