# How can Donald Trump win at this point? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump, kamala-harris\ **Created:** [August 6, 2024, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351 "2024-08-06T21:13:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 84
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2024, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1661 "2024-09-02T19:14:29Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Re the fear factor: There’s truly being afraid of something, and then there’s _pretending_ or _choosing_ to be afraid of something so as to form a community, political party, etc., based on that. I think the GOP is engaged much more in the latter than in the former. If you’re referring to @Ferris’s explanation a couple posts above yours … I agree that the GOP and Murdoch _et al_ propaganda machines have been manufacturing fear by the megaton (MAGAton? 🙂 ) and spreading it far and wide for decades now. But at this point much of the rank and file RW electorate truly sincerely believes that fear. It’s 100% real _to them_. Even as the masterminds are rubbing their hands together Mr. Burns style and congratulating themselves to Smithers about how well their Evil Genius plan of deception is working. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2024, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1662 "2024-09-02T19:43:12Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > But at this point much of the rank and file RW electorate truly sincerely believes that fear. It’s 100% real _to them_. I think it’s hard to tell what people “really” believe, and in any case, such belief, quantitatively and qualitatively, will be on a continuum. For example, I’m someone who was raised Catholic and stopped believing in junior high but continued to go to church with my family (I was forced to) and go to a Catholic high school and university (I chose to). I reject the church 100% now, but I know a lot about it. And my guess is less than 10% of adults “really” believe in Catholic dogma (which doesn’t mean they don’t believe in it partly, such as believing in God.) IOW, everyone’s a “cafeteria Catholic.” But people stick with it because they like the traditions, the rituals, the community, and so on. Plus, they have friends and family in the church, giving rise to peer pressure. Some can admit to themselves, maybe to others, what they do and don’t believe, and some can’t even do that. I think _any_ type of belief system works like that, ultimately. And modern GOP thinking is definitely a cult-like belief system. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2024, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1663 "2024-09-02T20:00:13Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > But people stick with it because they like the traditions, the rituals, the community, and so on. Plus, they have friends and family in the church, giving rise to peer pressure. Some can admit to themselves, maybe to others, what they do and don’t believe, and some can’t even do that. I wonder what it’s like when two people — both of whom can, like you said, maybe admit it to themselves but not to others — start talking at length (a) about something _neither_ of them believes (b) even as _both_ of them figure the other is part of the true-believer community who generate the friends-and-family peer pressure that each has no real desire to go along with. Just both of ‘em putting on an act for someone who’s likewise thinking _ah, jeez, I’m talking to someone who’s a sucker in this one context, and I sure can’t wait until this part is over and I can get back to being myself with someone I respect on other topics. Unless? Do I dare to hope?_ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2024, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1664 "2024-09-02T20:25:08Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > **A Communique From Trump Country :** > > Lawn signs are rare. Yep, my Congressional district is about 50/50. Last elections, not only were there flags and signs everywhere, but trucks with huge (say that in a trump accent) MAGA flags, and some bigot climbed to the top of a hill where someone had put up an American flag and replaced it with a MAGA flag. I have seen none of that. A few red hats, a tshirt or two, and some bumper stickers. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2024, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1665 "2024-09-02T22:02:14Z")
Solid red SC here, though in a slightly more progressive area (lots of northern transplants), and I’m moderately cheered by how few Trump signs I’m seeing. It doesn’t mean a damn thing for the SC electoral votes, I don’t think this state will ever turn, but just maybe it’s a sign that once-sensible conservatives have had enough of his crap. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2024, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1666 "2024-09-02T23:15:48Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > you’re a catastrophising depressive. Maybe, but considering that the end of American democracy is being contemplated all over this board and elsewhere, _up to the Democratic nominee for president of the United States_, I don’t think I can be singled out on this specific topic. Oh, and I forgot to bitch about the media in my last post. They have a pretty huge role in all this. And billionaires. Can’t forget them. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2024, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1667 "2024-09-02T23:52:36Z")
The smart move would be for trump to pull a Biden, and step down in favor of JD. He saw the boost Harris got, so a manly man like JD out front, maybe with Bobby as VP should kick ass. He could still get his pardon, and he wouldn’t have to do any work. If he wanted to stave off boredom, he could always be the party’s eminence grease. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2024, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1668 "2024-09-02T23:57:15Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > He could still get his pardon, and he wouldn’t have to do any work. He’s convicted of state crimes and facing more potential state convictions, and he can’t be pardoned for them. He **needs** to be POTUS. One of many reasons why that would never happen. Anyway, this is more the subject of this other thread: > [@What are the chances that J.D. Vance will ever serve as POTUS?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-chances-that-j-d-vance-will-ever-serve-as-potus/1006436): > > I almost want to put this one in Factual Questions, rather than Politics and Elections, because I’m really interested in having my inexpert statistical estimates evaluated rather than having a discussion about Vance’s virtues and vices, but I’m guessing (Mod knows) it will end up in P&E, so here goes: Start with the assumption that the Trump-Vance ticket has a 45% chance of winning in November, very conservatively. If that happens, I figure there’s a 50-50 chance that Trump will live through Ja… ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1669 "2024-09-03T00:11:29Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > there are many reasons that some support Trump and while I strongly disagree with them not all are “evil”. I agree, but I don’t think anyone on this board had made such a sweeping statement. The supposition that I share is that a significant number of them are truly evil (as shown, for example, by the number of them that are, or were, in jail). The rest of them are either seriously misinformed and/or will always vote (R) for self-serving reasons. > [@DSeid](#): > > Dismissing a large fraction of our country’s citizens as such is IMHO simultaneously elitist and even worse intellectually lazy. The fact is that Trump did get elected in 2016, almost got elected in 2020, and may well get elected again this year. And has a stranglehold on the Republican party. What this says about a large fraction of US citizens isn’t pretty, but uncomfortable truths are still truths. > [@DSeid](#): > > Yeah I think many are driven by ignoble motivations, by resentment and entitlement for example. That though is human not evil. Are you suggesting that those of us with more noble motivations and not obsessed by resentment and entitlement aren’t human? > [@Dinsdale](#): > > I asked the son if his dad was voting for Trump. He said, “Yeah.” I asked if HE was going to and he said, “Yeah.” I asked why, and he said, “Harris is a fucking moron!” I asked why he thought that, and he said, “Just listen to her talk.” Then he said Trump is not personable, but he supports Trump’s policies. I asked which policies, he said, “The economy.” This is what I was referring to just above when I classified the types of Trump voters. I doubt that your friend is “evil”, but he falls so squarely in the category of “badly misinformed” that I think the term “brainwashed” may be more appropriate. Harris is a well-spoken, good-natured and obviously intelligent successful former prosecutor. Trump can’t even string a few words together into a coherent sentence, and that’s aside from his self-serving criminality. If he doesn’t suffer from dementia, there’s something else wrong with him. Anyone who says Harris is a moron as a reason to vote for Trump, and “just listen to her” as proof, is someone in the throes of what has to be the most massive cognitive dissonance in the annals of abnormal psychology. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1670 "2024-09-03T00:16:28Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Are you suggesting that those of us with more noble motivations and not obsessed by resentment and entitlement aren’t human? Uh, no? Parental love is a human motivation. Not all of us experience it. It does not make those who do not inhuman cat ladies. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1671 "2024-09-03T00:37:09Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Anyone who says Harris is a moron as a reason to vote for Trump, and “just listen to her” as proof, is someone in the throes of what has to be the most massive cognitive dissonance in the annals of abnormal psychology. Well, and my female friend said, “I just don’t like her.” To be fair, Harris has been accused of “word salad” by Liberals as well, one being Cenk Uygur, who however said that she’s been avoiding this lately. I, personally, have never heard her say anything too egregious, and since she’s become our candidate I think she’s been all-around fantastic. Clear as a bell, in fact. My guess is that he doesn’t like the idea of a Black woman becoming president and therefore has to make some shit up in his dumb head. As for my friend, I think she’s politically ignorant and has unconsciously self-branded with the “R,” though she says she won’t vote for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1672 "2024-09-03T00:48:12Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > Are you suggesting that those of us with more noble motivations and not obsessed by resentment and entitlement aren’t human? > > Uh, no? > > Parental love is a human motivation. Not all of us experience it. It does not make those who do not inhuman cat ladies. Sure, and my question was obviously rhetorical. The point I’m making is that the argument “that’s just human nature” is **not** a justification for those who lack empathy and fanatically pursue self-serving interests to the detriment of everyone else, even when it not only economically disadvantages other people, but literally deprives them of basic civil rights. White supremacy, for example, is a big part of the unwritten Trump dogma, but the dog whistles could not be more clear. Your defense of the Trump voter seems to be based on a reasonable quest for understanding “the other side”, because surely the other side must have a valid point of view. The side that learned nothing from the disastrous first term, learned nothing from the Jan 6 insurrection that Trump instigated, learned nothing from all his criminal indictments, and follows him around to his rallies to cheer his hateful and incoherent gibberish. And is happy to give him a second term in which the autocracy and chaos will be far worse than in the first. The best that can said is that many of them support Trump out of a terribly ignorant and misplaced sense of economic self-interest. The rest of them are frightening and dangerous fascists who’ve already shown their willingness to overturn a free and fair election, and I don’t just mean the Jan 6 rioters, I mean Senators, members of Congress, and state officials who supported Trump’s insurrection. That’s the uncomfortable truth. If you can’t come to grips with that truth, just look at the polls. Trump could easily win. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1673 "2024-09-03T01:08:48Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > > [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > > > Isn’t it possible that some folks support Trump for reasons other than evilness? > > Oh, _this_ outta be good… Most people who vote for Trump will do so because their friends and family do. They don’t follow politics and take the path of least resistance. People they know, who seem to follow this stuff, says that Harris doesn’t like people such as they, and that Trump does. Once they hear this from someone they more or less respect, the game is probably over. Of course, there also have to be FoxNews types to lead the true low information voters. . ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1674 "2024-09-03T01:24:26Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > I’ve noticed far, far fewer Trump signs in Scottsdale than in the past few elections. There’s one guy with a huge Trump flag, but he’s always flown some asshole flags, election or not. All the other houses that used to have signs are barren. I’m in a sixty percent Democratic area, and do not see many signs from either side. A month from now there will be more, but so what? How many Nixon signs were there in 1968, when he won by a landslide? Few if any, because that was the pre-sign-era. I suspect that political lawn signs are a fad that seems to be fading. The only time we ever put up signs, we put one for each ticket. The interpretation was left to the eye of the beholder. Yes, that was before Trump. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1675 "2024-09-03T01:43:58Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Most people who vote for Trump will do so because their friends and family do. They don’t follow politics and take the path of least resistance. Not “most” but a lot. Trump has his 30%. In order to get the other 15% (he runs about that in popular voting)- yes, he depends on those voters. Some have always voted R. Some are brainwashed by Fox. etc. They arent evil, they are generally just ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1676 "2024-09-03T01:45:16Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Most people who vote for Trump will do so because their friends and family do. They don’t follow politics and take the path of least resistance. I don’t know if this is true for “most” people, but it’s probably true for large numbers. I would put this in a sub-category of “ignorant voters”. It’s not that they necessarily believe bullshit, it’s that they don’t know anything at all and don’t care. If their family votes Trump because **their family** believes bullshit, then they feel they should, too. And so dies democracy, one ignorant uncaring incurious follower at a time. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1677 "2024-09-03T02:13:16Z")
Your surmise reminds me of an old bad joke: > **Q** : How do you keep a Mormon from drinking all your beer on a fishing trip? > **A** : Invite two Mormons. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1678 "2024-09-03T02:18:02Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > And so dies democracy, one ignorant uncaring incurious follower at a time. Reminds me of this haunting tune: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Ddi2TBnzdPo/hqdefault.jpg "Mike & The Mechanics - Silent Running ( with LYRICS )") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddi2TBnzdPo) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1679 "2024-09-03T02:40:09Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > How many Nixon signs were there in 1968, when he won by a landslide? Few if any, because that was the pre-sign-era. I suspect that political lawn signs are a fad that seems to be fading. I think it has been replaced with people doing the equivalent on social media. Changing their profile picture, posting memes, etc. And that costs you nothing and takes a matter of minutes, if not seconds. Putting a sign in your lawn takes a lot more time and effort. And someone can steal or deface a lawn sign, they can’t do that to a profile picture. Plus, odds are more people are going to see your social media post than a sign in your yard. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/1680 "2024-09-03T02:42:31Z")
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