How can Donald Trump win at this point?

Good post! I’m a marketing guy, so I’ve done (rather, observed behind the two-way mirror) some focus groups, and they are indeed interesting. And, as you say, sometimes it’s good to get the whole opinion rather than someone else’s digested version of it.

Yeah, I’d say the same thing to any group but especially groups that Trump doesn’t give a fuck about or actively wants to hurt: Trump is a completely unacceptable candidate, and no vote for him is excusable.

It shows the power of branding and nostalgia, though: thinking that Trump was good at all for the economy is a combo of pre-covid nostalgia and buying into the zombie Republican brand: they’re just better on the economy, national security, blah blah blah. Most companies would kill for that kind of brand resilience!

Immigrants eat pets conspiracy now a Trump campaign topic. Every rally from now on. Hannibal Lecter is discarded.

White House press secretary KJP on Trump’s racist migrant pet hoax: “What is happening here is an attempt to tear apart communities … maybe we should not have leaders who fall for fake internet conspiracy theories. We should think about that.”
https://www.threads.net/@aaron.rupar/po … yrQ36hbRlA

Yes, and Ben Meiselas showed how, post-debate, Trump was continuing to post AI-generated memes about migrants eating pets. It’s clear that Trump truly cares about the truth… Somehow I doubt this is helping his campaign.

The thing that Trump doesn’t get is that the fascist leader isn’t supposed to be publisher of Der Stürmer, which published the stupidest, most vulgar anti-Semitic memes for the morons. But should he meet the same fate as Julius Streicher, I would not shed a tear.

I truly think this will end up being what the Trump 2024 campaign is remembered for: fear mongering in the form of “immigrants are eating your pets.”

He may have finally jumped the shark. We may finally have reached a point where the majority of Americans ask “at long last, have you no shame?”

I hope the pet eating memes continue. Trump is a farce. His comeuppance is that he becomes a national laughingstock.

“Some October surprise”? Trump (and his Trumpettes) are going to be throwing so much shit at the wall the general public is going to mistake it for a toilet. There will be so many outright lies that you will inevitably hear “It can’t all be false, can it?” fron supposed fence sitters.

That’s not true. The older Trump supporters I’ve seen (admittedly a smash sample size) are all married.

They are older white men, in some cases really older men. They don’t have loveless marriages- that’s projecting and wishful thinking. They are long term consumers of slanted media starting from Rush Limbaugh way back in the late 80s/ early nineties, Fox “news”, and now right wing radio. They bought in to the old myths that conservatives are better for the economy because liberals want high taxes to spend on social programs that reward the lazy and crminal. That conservatives want low taxes and low regulations to let industry be free to grow, invest, do business without unnecessary obstacles (like pollution laws, worker safety regulations, equal employment opportunity legislation, Americans With Disabilities protections, etc).

They are typically christian conservatives who view social progress through the interpretation that freedoms of identity and expression are freedom to be evil. They view legal challenges to religious privilege as oppression of religion, not removing unfair establishment.

The feed all these notions of social change through that filter of aggressions against their views and giving other social groups unfair privileges. (Twisted, but their perception.)

Grievance and identity politics.

It doesn’t help when the economy coincidentally seems to match predictions by this model. And cherry picking negative social trends reinforced their feeling that the social ills of this country come from the removal of christian ideas from public life, i.e. the removal of forced christianity.

They want back a society that appears more fair to them, i.e. restores the privilege they grew up expecting. They want scary others out put back in their place.

And they overlap heavily with distrust of the media (liberal bias being an example) as well as distrust of government. The Vietnam War and Watergate started this contempt. Thus the correlation with conspiracist thinking.

And there are plenty of women who share these views.

I went out to breakfast the other day and overhead a snippet of three old people where one was wearing a gun nut shirt and they were talking about some woman at work complaining about the shirt.

I will say there is an undercurrent of disrespect for women, but they target 80s"feminism" and claim it’s the uppity feminists, not women. That’s part of that social class interference with how things “should be”.

Now for younger MAGA males, you are on more solid ground. Incels are a class of misogynists who blame women for keeping them from being getting the sex they deserve. Unfair women seeking the arrogant and attractive men and not giving them a chance. Or going lesbian to deprive them of the opportunity. They blame women as a whole for being opprtunists, gold diggers, and whores. While failing to realize if some women aren’t interested, opinions differ between women; of no women are interested, then they need to look at the single common denominator - and it’s not that women have pussies. Start with a mirror, my friend.

The others have followed the anti feminist “humor”, and those ideas have infiltrated their mindset about women in general.

I will point out something that may be a little obscure. There is a weird cult in dom/ sub porn circles that plays on the objectivation of women. It combines the element of controlling women with the incel anti-feminist rantings, so it equates anti-feminism with MAGA masculinity and Gen X men. It’s a disturbing slice of hate and disgusting display of malice, juxtaposing young gen z women as antifeminists secretly craving surrender to real MAGA men.

TLDR,

So maybe I a little too overreaching in my denial. OLD Trump as supporters may be married and have good relationships, or may be women. Middle-age MAGA more fits the bill of bitter incels.

Nitpick - I’m certain Swift was planning this long before. I missed the call in predicting she would endorse during the convention, but what I pointed out then is that Swift had long been a champion for women. She spoke about wanting to endorse Clinton but her own drama at the time made her feel it would have been an anchor instead of a boost, but she now regrets that silence. She endorsed Biden-Harris in 2020. She dropped a hint about this just before the debate - that social media post with the weird silhouette of a pantsuited women that looked like Harris. The text had an encoded message that she endorses Harris and stay tuned. She was going to drop this after the debate regardless, either as a celebration, or as a counter to a bad performance.

I was just attempting a joke in reply to the ‘Lysistrata gambit’ joke @DesertDog made, about how it wouldn’t work; I don’t really believe that. Yes, trumpers are often happily married or in long-term relationships. There are rich trumpers, poor trumpers, doctor trumpers and plumber trumpers. Some of my in-laws are trumpers, and are very nice people. It’s bewildering to me.

Agreed. With a slight quibble that this debate and election season is going to be either remembered for "immigrants eating pets ", or “concepts of plans.” Maybe both to a degree.

Assuming that Trump loses, (and being careful not to allow wishful thinking into the equation), when he said “concepts of plans”, that’s going to be quoted as a “bell tolling” moment. I swear I heard one.

Yep. Oddly this went over worse than after birth abortions.

I’m not so sure there is any shark he can jump that would turn off his supporters and the “undecideds”. I hope that is possible, but the polls say otherwise. Unless he is caught in bed with a dead under-18 boy, I think this is a tight race. And even if he is caught with that dead boy, it’ll still be a nail-biter.

The Electoral College should be 100% done away with.

Indeed. Over the last nine years, there have been so many instances where he says something terrible, or a revelation is made about something he had done or said in the past, or he gets charged with a crime, and there’s always people who say “now this will be what does him in!” – and, of course, none of those instances have, in fact, done him in.

The bastard has a Wolverine-level ability to regenerate and recover from political injuries.

He already is, and has been for years. Tuesday’s debate just made him even funnier. Unfortunately Trump doesn’t have the mental capacity for any kind of self-awareness. He’s incapable of feeling embarrassed, constantly protected by the warm cocoon of stupidity. Plus, he lives in a bubble, surrounded by sycophants The beauty of watching Tuesday’s debate was seeing Trump coming face to face with cold, hard reality. It totally rattled and infuriated him. No wonder he hates Harris so much!

I actually think that “I have concepts of a plan” was the most damaging thing from the debate. Reasons:

  • The mods effectively cornered him and made him respond on their terms (i.e., made him their bitch). That’s quite a rare thing for Donald to allow, but he did so in a big way.
  • Umm, why wouldn’t he have an actual healthcare plan at this point? Why didn’t he have a plan in 2017? There’s no reason for it, and it makes it clear that he has no personal discipline/organization or leadership ability. And one can say that he makes his lack of ability manifest at all times in all ways, but to make it manifest while being supine is different.
  • It’s a delightfully funny and pathetic turn of phrase. Weak as fuck. Memable and absolutely laughable.

I do not really want him to do it but I get a perverse sense of amusement out of the idea of Donald Trump turning his back on Republicans and declaring himself to be a Democrat. He could ruin absolutely everybody’s day on both sides. I think there would actually be a few Democrat politicians who would embrace him simply because he is so easily influenced by the last person he had a conversation with and also because he has no shame meaning you can use him to advance policy positions no one in their right mind would dream of otherwise saying out loud (such as the eating dogs thing which would have ended the career of anyone else). So if Trump is still campaigning for 2028, he should do it as a Democrat. Go ahead and flip the table, there’s nothing to lose at that point.

Wouldn’t that be a bit RFK Jr.-ish, lol?!

Hahahaha! I don’t think we are even close. The morons are going to double down on this because they think it triggers the Libs.

TLDR. There is no bottom, there is no shame.

If I have a “concept of a plan” were a scripted line in an SNL sketch it would have played out exactly the same way.

Assuming my wishes come true and he does lose, I think my biggest delight will be watching him immediately start his Trump 2028 campaign ………and the Republicans will have to ride that tiger for 4 more years and pretend they like it…….unless he drops dead.

Nope. If and when he loses, the glacially slow major legal cases against him will inevitably sink him. He may very well end up in prison. Even if that doesn’t happen, he’ll have a string of criminal convictions that will make him non-viable for 2028, aside from his age by then. The old saw of “weaponized DOJ” and “I’ll win on appeal” will have worn out by then.

But he will still vow to run again on 2028.

Meanwhile, he will never jump the shark. We know how he feels about sharks. He will go for the electrocution instead. Anything to stay far away from the shark. Maybe it was the shark who was eating the kittens? But who would eat whom in a matchup between a shark and the late great Hannibal Lector? Will they join forces to eat the kittens together? ( I think I have been listening to Trump too much)