# How can GWB be leading in the Polls??? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2004, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-gwb-be-leading-in-the-polls/241055 "2004-04-20T17:32:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Airblairxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Airblairxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airblairxxx)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-gwb-be-leading-in-the-polls/241055/61 "2004-04-20T20:42:06Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I would think the reason Bush is ahead is clear. Liberals haven’t done a good enough job in calling anyone who disagrees with them “stupid”. Actually, the converse is closer to the truth. Conservatives have done an excellent job in calling anyone who disagrees with them “stupid”, as well as “unpatriotic”, “traitorous”, “a disaster to the economy”, and “out of touch with the common man”. Shodan, again I marvel at your smugness, as you decry the smugness of those with different political viewpoints. I can’t wait for the day when you say, “How could the GOP lose? Everyone I know voted for them!” ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-gwb-be-leading-in-the-polls/241055/62 "2004-04-20T20:42:46Z")
Can’t we get Jimmy Carter off a construction site, dust him off and put \*him \*in office? He has another term left in him, and he’s _so nice!_ Maybe the rest of the world would love us again. OK, so while we 'merkins want to be loved and respected by Everyone Else, can anyone dispute that we, as a country, have ever gone after that love in quite the same way the we have gone after domination? Let’s face it. Most of us, on a personal level, are good, giving & caring folks. But as a nation and as a culture we’re hell-bent for leather in the opposite direction. We need oil? We GET oil. We need cars, cheap sneakers and personal computers? We GET cars, cheap sneakers and personal computers. We want entertainment? Hollywood must rule (although New Zealand…!). The difference between Ds & Rs is not intelligence–that’s so back-handed and unfair and shitty, really. No, I maintain that the difference is that when someone points at USA and says, “Imperialist!” the Dems recoil in horror at what we are perceived to be and the Reps say, “Ya, so? Compete if you don’t like it.” Joe Normal is unimpressed with Winston & FDR statesmanly speech and bearing. Joe doesn’t get it, he doesn’t understand it and he doesn’t like it. We had our asses handed to us on 9/11–Joe didn’t want an intellectual explanation of failed communication, cultural misunderstanding and fears of threatened heritage…blah blah blah. Joe wanted blood for blood. GWB gave Joe some blood. Because Joe wants to be on top. We have a thing about that. Me? Can’t stand GWB. Nobody called me for a poll. But the vast majority of the country have jobs, cars, sufficient income to put gas in the cars and a church to go to if that’s their thing. Things are, in the round, pretty dang good for most of us. On an individual level. That (and election fraud 🙂 ) is why GWB will be re-elected. Kerry offers us no blood, and he offers no engaging alternative plans. He’s not a bad guy, hell I like him and will give him my vote just so GWB can’t have it–so viceral is my reaction to being lied to and understanding that I am completely impotent to do anything about it. But I realize I may just as well write in Jimmy Carter. “Someone exploded an H-bomb today…but it wasn’t anybody _I_ knew.” --Moody Blues ---
**Author:** ![HumptysHamhole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f0a364/32.png) [@HumptysHamhole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumptysHamhole)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-gwb-be-leading-in-the-polls/241055/63 "2004-04-20T20:45:55Z")
> [@](#): > > How badly out of touch could we be if Bush is only going to win by 2 or 3 per cent, exactly? It is not a disagreement with Bush/conservatives/Republicans that puts the dopers in question out of touch. That is perfectly understandable. Rather it is the tone of the OP and similiar posts that proves their isolation. It is one thing to not like Bush and to not agree with political conservatives, however to not have _any understanding_ of the conservative viewpont and to not know _anyone_ who holds it literally puts you out of touch with about half of all Americans. So its not the political sway that I criticise (in this thread) but the \*WTF/how could this be \* attitude that some liberal dopers have. Guess what? Other people have opinions that disagree with yours. You would be wise to ltake your head out of the sand and learn what they are and why they are held. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-gwb-be-leading-in-the-polls/241055/64 "2004-04-20T20:46:39Z")
> [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > Uh, no… that would be you paying the price for re-electing Blair. It isn’t like Bush held him at gunpoint and said, “Okay, I’m going to go invade Iraq, and _you’re_ going to give me the Royal Marines and your full public support.” What the hell are you prattling on about ? And just in case, shove “Uh, no…” up your teen nostrils and into your vacuous skull. Go play outside, don’t forget the uh… sunscreen, uh… kid. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-gwb-be-leading-in-the-polls/241055/65 "2004-04-20T20:46:40Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > …And then I will sit back and savor the foam-flecked howls that will cripple the hamsters for months afterward… > …Hee hee hee… Good, I hope that the deep unhappiness and division in this country give you a big 'ol boner. Truly, you are a shining example of mature humanity. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-gwb-be-leading-in-the-polls/241055/66 "2004-04-20T20:46:40Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not saying that every Bush supporter is ignorant, but if ignorant people weren’t allowed to vote, Kerry would win hands down. Uh huh. And if people weren’t allowed to post ignorant statements, I wouldn’t be responding to your post right now. Pride before the fall, my friend. A little historical tidbit: one reason we have the electoral college, as opposed to a popular election, is that the founding fathers feared that the ignorant masses weren’t _smart_ enough to pick the right candidate. The electoral college provided a safeguard, albeit a weak one, against the ignorant masses voting this country into ruin. That same safeguard against ignorance led George W. Bush to victory in 2000. The irony is delicious. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-gwb-be-leading-in-the-polls/241055/67 "2004-04-20T20:56:19Z")
> [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > How badly out of touch could we be if Bush is only going to win by 2 or 3 per cent, exactly? Because on this board, Bush is behind by more than 80%. IIRC it was **Apos** who ran a “Who Will You Vote For?” poll, and Kerry got 82%. It’s a very left-leaning board. And you lose touch if you only talk to people who agree with you. And some Dopers make it their business to try to drive anyone besides the far Left away. And thus, the SDMB loses touch. But you don’t establish your point by preaching to the choir. And you especially don’t establish your point by screaming at anyone who disagrees with you that they are “stupid” or racist or evil or uninformed or whatever. “Bush is bad!” “How is Kerry any better?” 'BUSH IS BAD!" “But how is Kerry any better? What are his ideas for the country?” “BUSH IS BAD, YOU STUPID FUCKER!” Gee, how could I ever have doubted you? 😉 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-gwb-be-leading-in-the-polls/241055/68 "2004-04-20T20:57:28Z")
> [@London\_Calling](#): > > What the hell are you prattling on about ? > > And just in case, shove “Uh, no…” up your teen nostrils and into your vacuous skull. > > Go play outside, don’t forget the uh… sunscreen, uh… kid. Excellent comeback. I stand in awe. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-gwb-be-leading-in-the-polls/241055/69 "2004-04-20T21:09:30Z")
> [@HumptysHamhole](#): > > It is one thing to not like Bush and to not agree with political conservatives, however to not have _any understanding_ of the conservative viewpont and to not know _anyone_ who holds it literally puts you out of touch with about half of all Americans. I know plenty of people that like Bush, and you know what they all have in common? They’re all a bunch of close minded (SH is about to attack us :rolleyes)bigoted (let’s nuke the whole mid-east) idiots. Of course it’s a small sampling group of people, and there are many Republicans that don’t fit that bill, but you asked. I find them to be ignorant because when I ask them questions, they reply with the same old bullshit, things that were proven false months ago. I find it to be a _very_ bad sign when I’m arguing with people who are telling me SH tried to get uranium and was best friends with OBL. It’s rather pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-gwb-be-leading-in-the-polls/241055/70 "2004-04-20T21:13:53Z")
I don’t know where to start except by agreeing with **mehitabel**. This whole “My candidate’s going to win and you’re all a bunch of doodyheads” thing gets tired real fast from either side of the political spectrum. “Great Debates” has officially become “Petty Squabbling”. Let’s take it as read that we don’t like their guy and they don’t like ours, and move the fuck on. Except of course that I don’t like _either_ guy. As morally bankrupt as I consider the Bush administration to be, Kerry and his company are similarly deserving of a good pimpslapping. The “vote for us – we’re not them” strategy only works when the government of the day is vastly unpopular; otherwise, you’ve got to offer a better alternative (as the UK Labour party never really found out, and as the Tories are slowly realizing). Where, Mr. Kerry, are your policies? At what point are you actually going to challenge the President on his various failings (and he has a lot to choose from) rather than dithering and making feeble gestures? What will you do if elected? Jeebus, what the hell kind of president are you going to make? Admittedly I’d rather have an ineffectual President than an actively corrupt one, but it’s hardly a choice one wants to make. Let me add an extra helping of scorn to the US media (and no, not just Fox), who have apparently forgotten how to ask serious questions and demand accountability, or else are too lily-livered to do so for fear of losing whatever privileges the government has doled out. Say what you like about the BBC, but they’ve never shirked from holding politicians’ feet to the fire when the situation warranted, regardless of political party (although at least in the UK politicians are used to it – just look at PMQs). After Bush’s press conference one Houston paper complained that the questions couldn’t have been more hostile. Excuse me? The reporters did everything but wipe the man’s ass for him. Even NPR pussyfoots around the issues. It’s fucking pathetic. And of course, the general public are all busy getting on with their lives and only really worrying about politics to the extent it affects them personally (as people do all over the world). The Democrats could have stirred the populace up a little (and Dean, despite his own failings, did for a while). But no. Sheesh. I love my country, but it’s times like this I’m really glad I’m not living there at the moment. Still, for better or worse, my vote’ll be in the post. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-gwb-be-leading-in-the-polls/241055/71 "2004-04-20T21:17:46Z")
[QUOTE=Binarydrone] On the topic of the “recovering economy”, can someone tell me just who it is recovering for? I haven’t gotten any raises, nor do I know anyone who has. QUOTE] I got one. Of course, it wasn’t the economy’s fault that my company managed something like 8% increase in net profit and most raises were only around 4%. It’s the VPs looking to increase their margins and make everything look wonderful for their bosses. ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-gwb-be-leading-in-the-polls/241055/72 "2004-04-20T21:18:13Z")
from shodan > [@](#): > > Because on this board, Bush is behind by more than 80%. IIRC it was Apos who ran a “Who Will You Vote For?” poll, and Kerry got 82%. > > It’s a very left-leaning board. I wonder if Bush won would you consider this a right-leaning board? Maybe instead of putting people into little comfertable holes that make YOU feel better, you can think maybe…just maybe, people think Kerry is better for the job??? ---
**Author:** ![HumptysHamhole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f0a364/32.png) [@HumptysHamhole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumptysHamhole)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-gwb-be-leading-in-the-polls/241055/73 "2004-04-20T21:26:40Z")
> [@](#): > > After Bush’s press conference one Houston paper complained that the questions couldn’t have been more hostile. Excuse me? I think the criticism was that the press was personally hostile to Bush, which is true. That is the problem with the US media in relation to presidential politics. At least four different reporters asked Bush for an apology at that press conference. WTF!? That is a stupid waste of question and a waste of my time. It had not fuck to do with the speech Bush had just made – it is those kinds of questions that let Bush (and any other President) off easy. Stupid, politically motivated, petty questions posed by journalists who would rather get a jibe in at Bush than ask a really meaningful question. How about this: “Mr. President, what have you done then, to really fix the problem of communication between the FBI, the CIA, and the Pentagon, other than just talking about it?” Then maybe we could have learned something, or learned that Bush is blowing hot air. But, NO, I would much rather some head-cheese at the LA times ask Bush for an apology for not being a good President. So a President can make any type of statement he wants, and can count on the fact that the press would rather talk about polls and other reporters than focus on his own statements. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-gwb-be-leading-in-the-polls/241055/74 "2004-04-20T21:30:22Z")
> [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > Uh, no… that would be you paying the price for re-electing Blair. It isn’t like Bush held him at gunpoint and said, “Okay, I’m going to go invade Iraq, and _you’re_ going to give me the Royal Marines and your full public support.” > > Well, it _might_ be, but I doubt it. Literally? No. Politically and economically? That’s more debatable. Remember what happened to France? The UK relies a helluva lot more on US support than France does; if the US shut down even half the avenues of money, information and various other forms of political support it would hit the Brits hard. I have my beefs with Blair (mostly on domestic issues) but I would not have wanted to have had to make the choices he did regarding supporting the US position on the Iraq war. Especially as the Bush administration has systematically screwed Blair time and time again despite the support he’s given. You almost have to feel sorry for him. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-gwb-be-leading-in-the-polls/241055/75 "2004-04-20T21:32:39Z")
People choose their side, and stick with it. When Joe decides he’s a Republicrat, the Republicrat leader Johge Kerush could break into Joe’s house, murder his kids, molest his wife, put his gerbil in the blender, and change the presets on his car radio, and chances are Joe will still vote for Johge Kerush. OK, that maybe was a bit of an exaggeration. But it’s VERY tough for people to not post-hoc rationalize their previous choice. I used to rant and rave about this, but it really shouldn’t be surprising. Who wants to re-evaluate every decision every day? We’d go absolutely nuts. ---
**Author:** ![HumptysHamhole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f0a364/32.png) [@HumptysHamhole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumptysHamhole)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-gwb-be-leading-in-the-polls/241055/76 "2004-04-20T21:34:15Z")
> [@](#): > > I wonder if Bush won would you consider this a right-leaning board? Maybe instead of putting people into little comfertable holes that make YOU feel better, you can think maybe…just maybe, people think Kerry is better for the job??? Yes, if Bush had won with 80% I would think this is a right-leaning board. But this is a left-leaning board. This is exactly the point. Kerry IS NOT winning with 80%. And you are seriously out of touch if you look to a poll taken on the SDMB as confirmation of the country’s support of Kerry. _You_ are looking for comfort; reveling in the security of a poll skewed by the bias of its participants, and willfully ignoring the greater reality at hand. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-gwb-be-leading-in-the-polls/241055/77 "2004-04-20T21:36:55Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Because on this board, Bush is behind by more than 80%. IIRC it was **Apos** who ran a “Who Will You Vote For?” poll, and Kerry got 82%. > > It’s a very left-leaning board. And you lose touch if you only talk to people who agree with you. And some Dopers make it their business to try to drive anyone besides the far Left away. And thus, the SDMB loses touch. > > But you don’t establish your point by preaching to the choir. And you especially don’t establish your point by screaming at anyone who disagrees with you that they are “stupid” or racist or evil or uninformed or whatever. > > “Bush is bad!” > > “How is Kerry any better?” > > 'BUSH IS BAD!" > > “But how is Kerry any better? What are his ideas for the country?” > > “BUSH IS BAD, YOU STUPID FUCKER!” > > Gee, how could I ever have doubted you? 😉 > > Regards, > Shodan That’s how I see it too…Kerry has to do more than just rant like some of our SDMB posters here. Honey (his own, well-thought original ideas/solutions), not vinegar (his current campaign of bashing), will draw the flies (ignorant republican voters). And let’s not forget that the BOTH parties have their fair share of ignorant voters as well. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-gwb-be-leading-in-the-polls/241055/78 "2004-04-20T21:42:32Z")
No, Americans aren’t stupid, what we are is very _emotional_, which is, in some regards, a distinction without a difference. GeeDubya isn’t a monster, he is a mediocrity, and in ordinary circumstances, that wouldn’t be so bad. But in times of crisis, people _want_ to believe in The Leader, regardless of whom that person might be. Looked at from that perspective, a plummet from 90% approval to just barely squeeking by speaks volumes as well. The current polls mean squat. The election is months away, and in politics, thats almost an eternity. Kerry is a perfectly respectable candidate, Dean would have been a disaster, however much I admire his forthright courage in calling bullshit. Kerry doesn’t walk on water, and if he did, they would say its because he can’t swim. Hang tough. The fat lady hasn’t even put on her costume yet. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-gwb-be-leading-in-the-polls/241055/79 "2004-04-20T21:49:19Z")
> [@IzzyR](#): > > Hey, you are sadly mistaken if you take that as the “smug intellectual snobbery of the hard left”. Surprising too, in light of your registration date. _Sigh._☹ I never understand how so many of you can remember everyone else’s political/philosophical/religious/sexual oreintations. Unless I’ve been talking to someone in the last week, I can’t remember who they are. I read posts and don’t keep track of the personalities. I wish we had more people like **Libertarian**. Truth in advertising for the terminally clueless. ---
**Author:** ![HumptysHamhole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f0a364/32.png) [@HumptysHamhole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumptysHamhole)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-gwb-be-leading-in-the-polls/241055/80 "2004-04-20T22:04:51Z")
> [@](#): > > I never understand how so many of you can remember everyone else’s political/philosophical/religious/sexual oreintations. Unless I’ve been talking to someone in the last week, I can’t remember who they are. I read posts and don’t keep track of the personalities. I have a hard time with this too. Hell, I can remember names but I can’t remember if in the last thread I agreed or disagreed with said person. That said however I could always play the odds and just assume that every doper is: **In politics** a moderate-liberal who usually votes Democrat but whom isn’t a registered Democrat. **In religion** an agnostic who nevertheless finds comfort in the beauty of the world and finds value in certain traditional morals. **In leisure** likes to read and watch TV – but only really good TV shows like the Sopranos and Queer As Folk, not crass overly-popular shows like Friends or The Bachelor. **In personality** likes people and having fun and getting along and really thinks that everyone needs to lighten up about sex (its just sex!). Also is very laid back and easy-go-lucky as long as they don’t meet a bigot – then you’d better watch out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-gwb-be-leading-in-the-polls/241055.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-gwb-be-leading-in-the-polls/241055.md?page=5)