# How can I get the junk faxers to stop? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 18, 2004, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-get-the-junk-faxers-to-stop/245749 "2004-05-18T12:43:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Oregon\_sunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/50afbb/32.png) [@Oregon\_sunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oregon_sunshine)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-get-the-junk-faxers-to-stop/245749/1 "2004-05-18T12:43:05Z")
We have gotten between 1-5 junk faxes every day on our business line, which is also our main phone line. I normally overlook these as a minor nuisance, but recently they’ve been getting out of hand. The other night, the faxer called at 10:15 p.m., and last night at _11:45 p.m._!!! We were all asleep at the time and I thought it was a family member with some emergency, that’s how unusual a call that late is around our house. Now that pissed me off. Okay, we’re on the federal and state do-not-call lists. Apparently, this still hasn’t deterred the “$99 Florida Vacation!!!” faxers one bit. I’ve seen that each fax states that you can stop the faxes by calling a certain phone number, but they are all different, which means I would make a phone call per each fax and still continue to get the darned things. What else can we do?? Is there a do-not-fax list??? Any ideas would be appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-get-the-junk-faxers-to-stop/245749/2 "2004-05-18T13:22:04Z")
What I’ve been doing is calling the number (not the remove number) and telling them that they are faxing a VOICE LINE and could they please take the number off the list. I sometimes explain that we had to have the phone company put a trace on the line (which is true when we were having lots of problems with faxes coming in on our voice line). But then I’ll embelish either telling them that we borrowed a fax maching from the police to figure out who it’s been or that we had to have the police get the numbers from the phone company so that we could pursue it. Either way, telling them it’s a voice line their faxing to usually helps. And recently I’ve been reporting all junk faxes to the FCC. They won’t investigate individual reports, but from the sounds of it, after the get enough complaints about one company, then they will do something about it. [Here’s the FCC complaint form.](http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cib/fcc475.cfm). ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-get-the-junk-faxers-to-stop/245749/3 "2004-05-18T13:23:36Z")
Oh, and if you have multiple lines, as we do, I always call from the number the fax came in on, I’d hate to give them another number to send a fax to. There’s a couple of times where I’ve gotten a fax beep on a voice line, quickly hooked it up to the fax machine, recieved the fax, and two minutes later received the same fax on a fax machine. I’d hate to give them a third number. ---
**Author:** ![Chairman\_Pow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Chairman\_Pow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chairman_Pow)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-get-the-junk-faxers-to-stop/245749/4 "2004-05-18T13:54:16Z")
Your fax machine may or may not have a blacklist function, whereby you can bar certain numbers from calling. If you’ve got some really stupid guys who don’t know what they’re doing, their station ID will appear on the top with the number it came from, but in hundreds of faxes, I’ve only gotten one number… There are services that claim to work toward eliminating fax spam, as it were, where you fax to them your junk faxes and they give you some cash for your trouble. Of course, they also probably sell the saturation reports back to the companies in question… ---
**Author:** ![Winnie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e480ec/32.png) [@Winnie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winnie)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-get-the-junk-faxers-to-stop/245749/5 "2004-05-18T14:18:43Z")
I work for a company that sends out broadcast faxes on a regular basis and if you simply send the fax back to the number on the document saying “DO NOT FAX THIS NUMBER 888-555-1212” they are required by law to remove you. PLEASE make sure you include the fax number you want removed, some people just send the fax back saying “do not fax” and we have no way to track it to see who the heck you are, especially if there’s no personalization on the document. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-get-the-junk-faxers-to-stop/245749/6 "2004-05-18T14:26:51Z")
Sending junk faxes is a violation of Federal law. [This page](http://www.junkfaxes.org/taking_action.htm) tells how to take action. This law, BTW, predated the do-not-call list law by several years. The sender is liable for some rather [hefty fines.](http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/GoodMorningAmerica/GMA010725Hooters_Ruling.html) ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-get-the-junk-faxers-to-stop/245749/7 "2004-05-18T14:27:29Z")
Well, **Winnie** , your company is most likely breaking Federal law (and perhaps state law): > [@](#): > > [CITE: 47USC227] > > TITLE 47–TELEGRAPHS, TELEPHONES, AND RADIOTELEGRAPHS > CHAPTER 5–WIRE OR RADIO COMMUNICATION > SUBCHAPTER II–COMMON CARRIERS > Sec. 227. Restrictions on use of telephone equipment > (a) Definitions > As used in this section-- \* \* \* > > (2) The term `telephone facsimile machine'' means equipment which has the capacity (A) to transcribe text or images, or both, from paper into an electronic signal and to transmit that signal over a regular telephone line, or (B) to transcribe text or images (or both) from an electronic signal received over a regular telephone line onto paper. * * * (4) The term `unsolicited advertisement’’ means any material advertising the commercial availability or quality of any property, goods, or services which is transmitted to any person without that person’s prior express invitation or permission. > (b) Restrictions on use of automated telephone equipment > (1) Prohibitions > It shall be unlawful for any person within the United States – to use any telephone facsimile machine, computer, or other device to send an unsolicited advertisement to a telephone facsimile machine; \* \* \* > © to use any telephone facsimile machine, computer, or other device to send an unsolicited advertisement to a telephone facsimile machine; \* \* \* > (3) Private right of action > A person or entity may, if otherwise permitted by the laws or rules of court of a State, bring in an appropriate court of that State– > (A) an action based on a violation of this subsection or the regulations prescribed under this subsection to enjoin such violation, > (B) an action to recover for actual monetary loss from such a violation, or to receive $500 in damages for each such violation, whichever is greater, or > © both such actions. > If the court finds that the defendant willfully or knowingly violated this subsection or the regulations prescribed under this subsection, the court may, in its discretion, increase the amount of the award to an amount equal to not more than 3 times the amount available under subparagraph (B) of this paragraph. \* \* \* > (e) Effect on State law > (1) State law not preempted > Except for the standards prescribed under subsection (d) of this section and subject to paragraph (2) of this subsection, nothing in this section or in the regulations prescribed under this section shall preempt any State law that imposes more restrictive intrastate requirements or regulations on, or which prohibits– > (A) the use of telephone facsimile machines or other electronic devices to send unsolicited advertisements; \* \* \* ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-get-the-junk-faxers-to-stop/245749/8 "2004-05-18T16:04:37Z")
What they are doing is most likely a violation of federal law at least in the US. Other folks have provided links, it’s been the law of the land for over 10 years. I’ve had to deal with this before and here’s some of the gotcha’s: 1. If they can claim any kind of pre-exisiting business relationship with you (you ordered something from them, ever) then they can fax you. 2. They send stuff from outside of the US (hard to sic the law on 'em). 3. The “Take me off your list” fax number is probably for a Canadian company (see #2), they’ve started to do this lately. 4. They’ll claim that you signed up for their list. [Fax.com](http://Fax.com) did this when I tracked them down and complained. I told them to remove my number and they sent me a letter stating that they had removed the number that I had previously signed up with them. Jerks. 5. There will be minimal identifiable info on the fax - no mailing address, nobody’s name, just a 1-800 number going to a voicemail box. Try looking up the number (or complaining to the phone company) and notify the A.G. of the state that they do business in. 6. The offenders won’t get back to you if you complain. Basically they cheerfully violate federal law, hide behind dummy “fronts” outside of the US and ignore any complaints. So what you should do is send a copy of everything to the FCC. I was able to track down who owned many of the phone numbers (until the companies started switching to the Canadian “take me off your damn list” company) and the vast majority were from [Fax.com](http://Fax.com). Shortly after I complained, [Fax.com](http://Fax.com) got hit with a $5.4 million fine, so persistence does pay off. Note that the advertiser themself, not just the person/group sending the fax, is also liable, and there are statutory damages ($500 per offense with triple damages if they knowingly violated the law). It’s a PITA, requires a lot of persistence but you can get them to slow down if you are dogged enough. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![Oregon\_sunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/50afbb/32.png) [@Oregon\_sunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oregon_sunshine)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-get-the-junk-faxers-to-stop/245749/9 "2004-05-18T16:49:12Z")
Thanks, everyone, for all your suggestions! I’m going to _try_ the FCC complaint method (although it sounds as if they have a lot of loopholes). I appreciate your help! Any ideas will be appreciated and probably tried! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-get-the-junk-faxers-to-stop/245749/10 "2004-05-18T17:36:46Z")
Isn’t there a way to use the Internet to receive faxes? If so, then at least you’d be able to delete the spam before it eats up your toner cartridge… ---
**Author:** ![GreyWanderer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@GreyWanderer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreyWanderer)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-get-the-junk-faxers-to-stop/245749/11 "2004-05-18T18:50:45Z")
A vacation in Florida for only $99? That’s pretty cheap. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-get-the-junk-faxers-to-stop/245749/12 "2004-05-18T19:38:45Z")
Something I’ve always wondered about this, is if it’s a good idea to call the removal line and have your number taken off the list. I always assumed that just tells them it’s a ‘live number’ just like with spam. Lately I’ve been filing an FCC complain on EVERY junk fax that comes in (3 today so far), and will only bother with any sort of removal attemt if I can actually talk to a person. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-get-the-junk-faxers-to-stop/245749/13 "2004-05-18T19:45:54Z")
Try [http://www.faxwars.com](http://www.faxwars.com) also. They are suing and will give you $25.00 per fax when the case is settled. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-get-the-junk-faxers-to-stop/245749/14 "2004-05-18T20:35:05Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > Try [http://www.faxwars.com](http://www.faxwars.com) also. They are suing and will give you $25.00 per fax when the case is settled. Hm, haven’t heard of those folks but given that the statutory damages are $500/$1500 per fax (for intentional or egregious violations) and you can file it yourself in small claims court, might be worth the filing fee to try it on your own. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-get-the-junk-faxers-to-stop/245749/15 "2004-05-18T23:05:20Z")
> [@Valgard](#): > > Hm, haven’t heard of those folks but given that the statutory damages are $500/$1500 per fax (for intentional or egregious violations) and you can file it yourself in small claims court, might be worth the filing fee to try it on your own. That’s true, but I figure I get 5 or so a day (three sitting right in front of me), it’d sure be a lot easier to let someone else do the legwork. Has anyone else ever dealt with them? ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-get-the-junk-faxers-to-stop/245749/16 "2004-05-19T02:46:47Z")
[http://www.faxwars.com](http://www.faxwars.com) ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-get-the-junk-faxers-to-stop/245749/17 "2004-05-19T02:51:22Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > [http://www.faxwars.com](http://www.faxwars.com) What about it??? The last three posts have mentioned it already? Have you used them? Did you receive any money? How long did it take? Was it worth it? ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-get-the-junk-faxers-to-stop/245749/18 "2004-06-03T15:58:57Z")
I haven’t used his “faxwars” program/service/whatever, but I listen to his (Tom Martino’s) radio show pretty regularly. He is a consumer advocate and his show airs from Colorado, I think. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-get-the-junk-faxers-to-stop/245749/19 "2004-06-03T18:28:38Z")
> [@Joey P](#): > > What about it??? The last three posts have mentioned it already? Have you used them? Did you receive any money? How long did it take? Was it worth it? I’ve sent them probably 200 junk faxes over the past six months and I have yet to receive one thin dime. According to that website the response was overwhelming and it’s taking them longer to process all the faxes than they originally thought. Whatever. Even if I never see a dime, at least I’ve felt better by sending those faxes _thinking_ that I might someday get paid for it. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Lambo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lambo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lambo)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-get-the-junk-faxers-to-stop/245749/20 "2004-06-03T19:08:54Z")
> [@Joey P](#): > > Something I’ve always wondered about this, is if it’s a good idea to call the removal line and have your number taken off the list. I always assumed that just tells them it’s a ‘live number’ just like with spam. Lately I’ve been filing an FCC complain on EVERY junk fax that comes in (3 today so far), and will only bother with any sort of removal attemt if I can actually talk to a person. About two months ago, I decided to start calling the removal number. The place where I work would get, on average, 3-5 junk faxes per day. So, I started calling the 1-866 remove numbers, and low and behold, after about two weeks, we were down to 3-5 faxes per week. By staying on top of those, I have reduced it further. In the past two weeks, I have recieved 2 or 3 junkers. The only trouble in that time was on local company that claimed to have done business with us (which would be unpossible, given what we do and they do, and they just made up a contact name for our end). There wasn’t a number to remove our number, but they did have an e-mail to contact them for ordering their craputers. So, I e-mailed that after both faxes, indicating that I knew this was illegal and giving links to whatever agency is in charge of enforcing these thingies. haven’t seen one since. So, to make a long story short, call the numbers. It’s quick, easy, free, and does work. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-get-the-junk-faxers-to-stop/245749.md?page=2)