# How can I validate a claim to be a Dr (non medical) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 27, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-validate-a-claim-to-be-a-dr-non-medical/761064 "2016-07-27T22:23:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-validate-a-claim-to-be-a-dr-non-medical/761064/21 "2016-07-28T10:52:36Z")
It isn’t the equivalent of a PhD because they don’t do formal dissertations. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-validate-a-claim-to-be-a-dr-non-medical/761064/22 "2016-07-28T11:20:33Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Why do you say “as legitimate as these things get”? It’s an accredited institution and the degree is issued pursuant to the candidate completing the requirements, right? So, why isn’t it the equivalent of a PhD? It’s a real doctorate. It’s a real degree but professional/clinical doctorates are not the same as PhDs. They serve a different purpose. PhDs are a research degree that culminates in a dissertation based on original, investigative research. Clinical/professional doctorates are usually about acquisition of concrete technical skills, taking numerous courses, and usually culminate in passing a board or registry exam. So they result in different skill sets, take different amounts of time, are validated in different ways, so aren’t the same degree. Unfortunately, some doctorate programs can be very light weight. I’ve seen masters to doctorate programs (you are a PT with a masters but want to be a DPT) that can be completed in one year. It’s a lot different from the 4-7+ of a PhD program. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-validate-a-claim-to-be-a-dr-non-medical/761064/23 "2016-07-28T12:40:03Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Why do you say “as legitimate as these things get”? It’s an accredited institution and the degree is issued pursuant to the candidate completing the requirements, right? So, why isn’t it the equivalent of a PhD? It’s a real doctorate. Like the others said, it’s a professional degree that is much less rigorous than a PhD/ThD. It’s also in a field that many here consider somewhat less than legitimate to begin with. But sure, it’s a “real” doctorate. So is a Doctor of Chiropractic. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-validate-a-claim-to-be-a-dr-non-medical/761064/24 "2016-07-28T13:22:57Z")
Searched and found my 1962 thesis. It was #3 on their list. Oddly, ##1 and 2 had my first name only as middle names. Further down in the top ten were people whose first and middle names were my first and last (I have no middle name). I didn’t look beyond the first ten, but they were getting pretty far from mine. Mine was the shortest (46 pages, including three of front matter). ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-validate-a-claim-to-be-a-dr-non-medical/761064/25 "2016-07-28T13:44:29Z")
> [@picker](#): > > I found my sister’s from 2010 and more interestingly, my grandfather’s from 1929. > > For some reason I could freely download my sister’s, but none of the others, which only gave the option to order. That’s because newer dissertations have to be submitted in electronic form, so it’s easy for them to provide a digital version for download. For older dissertations, they need to be scanned, and they don’t go through and scan all of them. I think they do scan a dissertation once someone orders it, though, so if you were to order a copy of your grandfather’s thesis, it would be scanned and placed in the downloadable database section for future searchers to download. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-validate-a-claim-to-be-a-dr-non-medical/761064/26 "2016-07-28T13:47:10Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > Like the others said, it’s a professional degree that is much less rigorous than a PhD/ThD. It’s also in a field that many here consider somewhat less than legitimate to begin with. But sure, it’s a “real” doctorate. So is a Doctor of Chiropractic. Doctor of Chiropractic is a professional degree that qualifies a person in the so-called science of chiropractic. A [Doctor of Ministry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Ministry) is a bit more involved than that, and can also include a doctoral dissertation. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-validate-a-claim-to-be-a-dr-non-medical/761064/27 "2016-07-28T13:53:26Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > It’s a real degree but professional/clinical doctorates are not the same as PhDs. They serve a different purpose. PhDs are a research degree that culminates in a dissertation based on original, investigative research. Clinical/professional doctorates are usually about acquisition of concrete technical skills, taking numerous courses, and usually culminate in passing a board or registry exam. So they result in different skill sets, take different amounts of time, are validated in different ways, so aren’t the same degree. > > Unfortunately, some doctorate programs can be very light weight. I’ve seen masters to doctorate programs (you are a PT with a masters but want to be a DPT) that can be completed in one year. It’s a lot different from the 4-7+ of a PhD program. Sorry. I didn’t see this post of yours when I made my last post. I’ve long wondered why so many different fields have the common PhD degree, but a few fields have their own doctorate (Doctor of Education, for example). Y’all’ve made a convert. Since they’re not the same style, if you will, of degree, perhaps they shouldn’t be called “doctorate”. Yeah, I know; changing society’s practice of centuries isn’t going to happen any time soon. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-validate-a-claim-to-be-a-dr-non-medical/761064/28 "2016-07-28T14:13:12Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Sorry. I didn’t see this post of yours when I made my last post. I’ve long wondered why so many different fields have the common PhD degree, but a few fields have their own doctorate (Doctor of Education, for example). Y’all’ve made a convert. Since they’re not the same style, if you will, of degree, perhaps they shouldn’t be called “doctorate”. Yeah, I know; changing society’s practice of centuries isn’t going to happen any time soon. Cool! I’m the opposite- I’m happy to use doctorate for everyone else, but I say “PhD” or “doctoral degree”. But it is tilting at windmills. It’s cool at graduation- your regalia has colors specific to your academic discipline, so you see different colors for people who have doctorates in nursing vs pharmacy. But everyone who has a PhD wears deep blue hood- the color of philosophy. Technically, our degrees are all philosophy degrees, which I really like. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-validate-a-claim-to-be-a-dr-non-medical/761064/29 "2016-07-28T14:21:23Z")
In my case, natural philosophy, which according to modern us of the terms sounds like an oxymoron. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-validate-a-claim-to-be-a-dr-non-medical/761064/30 "2016-07-28T18:48:14Z")
> [@Lsura](#): > > Did they do a dissertation? Not all professional doctorates require one. I don’t believe most JD programs do, for example. Getting a JD is a great accomplishment, and it has “doctor” in its name, but I don’t consider it a doctorate, and would :rolleyes: at anyone who insists that it makes them deserving of the doctor title. > [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > A friend has a PsyD. I don’t know if they do anything like a dissertation, but it isn’t there, either. Some PsyD do a dissertation but many don’t, or have one that doesn’t resemble what a PhD in clinical psychology dissertation would entail. > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > It’s cool at graduation- your regalia has colors specific to your academic discipline, so you see different colors for people who have doctorates in nursing vs pharmacy. Isn’t usually based on the college your degree is under? Like the same degree at different schools could be in the College of Science, or Liberal Arts, or Arts and Sciences (which is pretty much every major beyond specialized things like business or journalism), but that doesn’t mean that one is more or less scientific. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-validate-a-claim-to-be-a-dr-non-medical/761064/31 "2016-07-28T19:23:53Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Isn’t usually based on the college your degree is under? Like the same degree at different schools could be in the College of Science, or Liberal Arts, or Arts and Sciences (which is pretty much every major beyond specialized things like business or journalism), but that doesn’t mean that one is more or less scientific. There are different parts to the academic hood. The outer color of the hood is based on your academic institution that granted you the degree. The inner color is based on discipline. So everyone who graduates from UCONN will have blue and white exterior hood, but different disciplines will have different colors on the inner layer (so a DSW will be a different color than EdD). Here’s a good diagram: [http://www.gradshop.com/skin/frontend/default/gradshop/images/charts/xhood\_01.png.pagespeed.ic.zV1ERBJPVg.jpg](http://www.gradshop.com/skin/frontend/default/gradshop/images/charts/xhood_01.png.pagespeed.ic.zV1ERBJPVg.jpg) #4 will be the same for everybody who graduated from the same place #3 will be discipline specific I graduated from CMU, so my outer color (#4) is tartan plaid and my inner color is philosophy blue (#3). Masters hoods are all discipline specific. So a biology PhD will be blue, but a science masters would be gold ---
**Author:** ![mcgato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@mcgato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcgato)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-validate-a-claim-to-be-a-dr-non-medical/761064/32 "2016-07-28T19:27:28Z")
Dr. Phil’s dissertation: RHEUMATOID ARTHRITIS: A PSYCHOLOGICAL INTERVENTION. by MCGRAW, PHILLIP CALVIN, University of North Texas, 1979, 130 pages; 7919736 He also seems to have a master’s dissertation: A COMPARISON OF THE MORAL JUDGMENTS OF MALES AND FEMALES AS A FUNCTION OFMERGING SEX ROLES by MCGRAW, PHILLIP C., University of North Texas, 1976, 50 pages; 1308940 ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-validate-a-claim-to-be-a-dr-non-medical/761064/33 "2016-07-28T19:32:41Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > That’s because newer dissertations have to be submitted in electronic form, so it’s easy for them to provide a digital version for download. > > For older dissertations, they need to be scanned, and they don’t go through and scan all of them. I think they do scan a dissertation once someone orders it, though, so if you were to order a copy of your grandfather’s thesis, it would be scanned and placed in the downloadable database section for future searchers to download. It’s not necessarily just that…the last several years have seen a great trend toward open access to scholarship, and that includes theses and dissertations. When our students submit their work, they deposit it with Proquest (UMI), and the university requires them to select the open access option (for which they have to pay ~$100). Anyway, an ETD deposit with Proquest will either be [Open Access](http://pqdtopen.proquest.com/search.html), where the student/school has paid a fee to make it freely available, or not, in which case the person who wants to read it has to buy a copy. Just because it’s recent/digital doesn’t mean it’ll be free to download. Though it’s true as far as I’m aware that older ones will generally not be freely available, since the OA fee was not an option before a certain time and so the permissions/agreement is not in place with the author(s), in addition to some cost incurred at some point to scan it from the microfilm they were provided. Not all schools mandate Proquest deposit but may have some students do it voluntarily, some students can opt out or request an embargo period, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-validate-a-claim-to-be-a-dr-non-medical/761064/34 "2016-07-28T20:12:23Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > There are different parts to the academic hood. The outer color of the hood is based on your academic institution that granted you the degree. The inner color is based on discipline. So everyone who graduates from UCONN will have blue and white exterior hood, but different disciplines will have different colors on the inner layer (so a DSW will be a different color than EdD). Here’s a good diagram: [http://www.gradshop.com/skin/frontend/default/gradshop/images/charts/xhood\_01.png.pagespeed.ic.zV1ERBJPVg.jpg](http://www.gradshop.com/skin/frontend/default/gradshop/images/charts/xhood_01.png.pagespeed.ic.zV1ERBJPVg.jpg) > > #4 will be the same for everybody who graduated from the same place > > #3 will be discipline specific > > I graduated from CMU, so my outer color (#4) is tartan plaid and my inner color is philosophy blue (#3). > > Masters hoods are all discipline specific. So a biology PhD will be blue, but a science masters would be gold So if I’m reading right, it’s the [closest match to one of these](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_regalia_in_the_United_States#Intercollegiate_colors)? And the college (e.g. Letters & Arts, Science, etc.) has no bearing on the colors? Heh. Commerce, Accountancy, Business is “drab.” > [@mcgato](#): > > Dr. Phil’s dissertation: > RHEUMATOID ARTHRITIS: A PSYCHOLOGICAL INTERVENTION. > by MCGRAW, PHILLIP CALVIN, University of North Texas, 1979, 130 pages; 7919736 > > He also seems to have a master’s dissertation: > A COMPARISON OF THE MORAL JUDGMENTS OF MALES AND FEMALES AS A FUNCTION OFMERGING SEX ROLES > by MCGRAW, PHILLIP C., University of North Texas, 1976, 50 pages; 1308940 Master’s is usually called a thesis. In practice it may be pretty much the same as a PhD dissertation, except shorter and less intensive, or it may be something completely different. My thesis is a published paper, for example. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-validate-a-claim-to-be-a-dr-non-medical/761064/35 "2016-07-28T20:20:25Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > So if I’m reading right, it’s the [closest match to one of these](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_regalia_in_the_United_States#Intercollegiate_colors)? And the college (e.g. Letters & Arts, Science, etc.) has no bearing on the colors? Honestly, I’m not sure what you mean by Arts and Letters or Science, in this context. The University, Department/program, and degree are usually what drives the colors for your hood. Different disciplines may have different rules for under what header you choose your color. Your degree granting institution would be able to help- usually the bookstore knows exactly what color hood to order if you tell them the specific degree and what department you graduated from. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-validate-a-claim-to-be-a-dr-non-medical/761064/36 "2016-07-28T22:29:22Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > and it doesn’t include degrees from foreign universities. It includes at least some. I entered my (rather uncommon) family name, and found a doctorate thesis presented by someone going by the same name presented in a Parisian university in the late 19th century. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-validate-a-claim-to-be-a-dr-non-medical/761064/37 "2016-07-28T22:34:39Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > It includes at least some. I entered my (rather uncommon) family name, and found a doctorate thesis presented by someone going by the same name presented in a Parisian university in the late 19th century. I was going by what the site where I found the original link said. It looks like it’s broader than that. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-validate-a-claim-to-be-a-dr-non-medical/761064/38 "2016-07-28T23:35:58Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Honestly, I’m not sure what you mean by Arts and Letters or Science, in this context. The University, Department/program, and degree are usually what drives the colors for your hood. > > Different disciplines may have different rules for under what header you choose your color. Your degree granting institution would be able to help- usually the bookstore knows exactly what color hood to order if you tell them the specific degree and what department you graduated from. I mean colleges in the specific definition (not the standard US synonym for university). Like for example UC Berkeley has a College of Letters & Science which consists of 60 different departments, from Biology to English. Now I think I was conflating two concepts - the graduation location/time is usually determined by your _College_, but the actual graduates in the same College may wear any number of colors. Sorry about the hijack. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-validate-a-claim-to-be-a-dr-non-medical/761064/39 "2016-07-28T23:37:28Z")
That’s ok. I suspected that was what you driving at. The discipline and institution drive the colors. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-validate-a-claim-to-be-a-dr-non-medical/761064/40 "2016-07-29T16:33:13Z")
> [@Lsura](#): > > Did they do a dissertation? Not all professional doctorates require one. I don’t believe most JD programs do, for example. No JD program does. The general requirement is an “upper level writing assignment,” which means an original research work pertaining to a topic of law, so in that sense it’s similar to a doctoral dissertation. However, they are not defended and are generally not published unless submitted to and accepted by a law journal. They can be as short as 25 pages, which I gather is far less than the requirement for a dissertation. Mine were 36 and 43 pages (double spaced), which is on the longer end of the scale. That website is cool. I found my dad’s (medical) doctoral thesis from 1976 (though apparently most of it has been lost as it is listed as one page). It never even occurred to me that he would have written one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-validate-a-claim-to-be-a-dr-non-medical/761064.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-i-validate-a-claim-to-be-a-dr-non-medical/761064.md?page=3)