# How can one NOT know how to swim? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 29, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700 "2012-06-29T14:58:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Minnie\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Minnie\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Minnie_Luna)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/21 "2012-06-29T15:50:49Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Ok you guys lost me. > > Nobody ever taught me how to swim. For me, it _was_ innate. I figured it must be for everyone since I am quite convinced that I am the most athletically challenged person on the planet. Seriously, I couldn’t throw a ball to save my life. > > So with that line of logic, I figured it must be innate for everyone. I understand where you are coming from. My grandparents owned property on a lake when I was born and we spent summers there. My parents had me in the water from the time I was a baby and multiple houses I lived in as a child had a pool, plus I can’t remember not having swimming lessons at the Y when we lived in a place without a pool. It wasn’t until I dated a guy when I was in my teens and had him over to our pool did I realize there were people out there who couldn’t swim. It was a question I never asked. He grew up in a town without a Y and had no friends or close relatives with pools. The opportunity never came up. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/22 "2012-06-29T15:51:44Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Public service announcement: NEVER approach a panicked swimmer, EVER, if you are not a trained lifeguard. I agree. But I am trained. I just had the training about a bazillion years ago. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/23 "2012-06-29T15:57:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Everybody floats. That’s a simple matter of physics. The point is that you have to learn to float with your head out of the water so you can breath. And I can’t do that unless I move my arms and legs. I consider that to be a type of treading water, not floating. ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/24 "2012-06-29T15:57:38Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I agree. But I am trained. I just had the training about a bazillion years ago. The way I learned, you’re supposed to approach from behind so they can’t grab onto you, wrap your arm around from their neck to opposite arm pit. That way you’re not crushing their windpipe. But [here’s](http://www.wikihow.com/Rescue-an-Active-Drowning-Victim) an article from Wiki How that says you’re supposed to approach from behind and grab them under the arm pits and pull them toward your chest. They have the same basic effect; just one leaves an arm free and the other doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/25 "2012-06-29T16:02:41Z")
> [@overlyverbose](#): > > How did you learn that it was innate? Did you fall into a pool and just _swim_, or did your parents take you and you just did it? Did you grow up around water and just watch other people swim all the time? If so, how long did that take? And how old were you? Do you specifically remember the first time you swam ever or is it possible that you just learned at a very young age and don’t remember? Was it just once and you got it, or did it take a few times before you mastered it? Sorry for all the questions - I’ve just genuinely never heard of anyone simply _knowing_ how to swim. > > And I guess I did misunderstand your post - I had assumed that you felt it was irresponsible not to swim, not that everyone just knew how. I grew up around pools. I was too young to remember the first time I swam but according to my Dad, he just threw me in the pool and that was that. (Gotta love the 70’s) Now that I think about it, maybe I should take back that innate part. But I’m fairly confident any instruction I did recieve was probably my Dad yelling from the side of the pool. And it was all over and done with inside a few minutes. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/26 "2012-06-29T16:07:52Z")
People don’t float well at all. In still water you can lie on your back, arms and legs extended just right, and keep your mouth and nose above water. But without some motion in the arms and legs people wouldn’t be able to keep their heads out of the water in less ideal conditions. Floating with your back up and out of the water is relatively easy, and you’ll acquire that skill shortly after you die. This is kind of silly. People can’t swim because they don’t know how. ‘Sink or swim’ works out well for some people, but there’s an ‘or’ in there because sometimes it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/27 "2012-06-29T16:09:19Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > I grew up around pools. I was too young to remember the first time I swam but according to my Dad, he just threw me in the pool and that was that. (Gotta love the 70’s) > > Now that I think about it, maybe I should take back that innate part. But I’m fairly confident any instruction I did recieve was probably my Dad yelling from the side of the pool. And it was all over and done with inside a few minutes. Cool. I don’t think I learned to swim until I was 8 or 9, the first time my sister and I traveled alone on an airline (she was 13 months older than I was). We were visiting my dad and his first new wife (he’s had a few - all I remember of her is a blonde hair, a giant pink dog and really good pancakes) and he had a pool. My mom had been teaching us to swim, sort of, but since we didn’t have a pool there was no urgency. My dad, on the other hand, forced us to learn to swim by the end of the summer so we wouldn’t drown, which I appreciate. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/28 "2012-06-29T16:10:04Z")
> [@overlyverbose](#): > > They have the same basic effect; just one leaves an arm free and the other doesn’t. That free arm is important – you’ll need it to swim! ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/29 "2012-06-29T16:12:37Z")
The problem with the “everyone can float” line is that while everyone can, most people don’t know the right way to do it. Some people take that statement to mean that no matter how they position themselves in the water, they’ll float and be fine. Then they aren’t, so they panic, move their arms and legs in completely unhelpful manner, and maybe start to sink a bit more, panic, etc… The easiest way to float, which everyone can do, is to take a big lungfull of air (if possible, if you’re already in the midst of going under that might not be possible,) and “lean over” in the water. Your head is almost entirely submerged, and your arms and feet will dangle from your body, and the top of your back is out of the water. You’ll float like this, but obviously it’s a big disconcerting to the untrained because yes, you have to keep your head under the water and hold your breath. When you need more air, left your head up (gently move your arms back anbd forth to help, if you need to), exhale, then inhale, then go “back under.” Floating on your back is pretty easy, too, but again, it’s a big of an odd sensation. Like the first example, your arms and especially your legs sort of hang there in the water. And with your legs, especially, that initial feeling when they start to sink might make someone start to panic if they think the rest of their body will follow, but it won’t. You legs will just sink to a point, then stop, and if you keep a lungfull of air, your torso will stay above the water, as will _most of_ your head/face. Which is another part that might freak some people out. Yes, some water will get on your face, so again, someone might start to think they are sinking when it’s just the natural movement of their head and water. Edit: Obviously, it if it’s a really choppy lake, or the open ocean with waves, or any kind of decent moving river, then this might not work…but in a pool, at least, floating is pretty easy if done right. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/30 "2012-06-29T16:13:00Z")
Two of my older cousins drowned in childhood. As a toddler, I wandered off and was finally located near a large, fast flowing irrigation canal. My mother was justifiably concerned over the idea that she might lose me to drowning, and enrolled me in swimming lessons as soon as I met the minimum age requirement, and these continued over 3-4 summers. Basically I exhausted the “basic” curriculum, and was not yet old enough to start the lifesaving courses. So I had been a pretty able swimmer since I was very young. When I got to high school, we did a quarter long swimming unit in PE. I was pretty much the only one in my PE class, not on the swim team, that could swim half way efficiently, tread water for a half hour, or even float. As mammals we seem to have a dog-paddling instinct. A basic dog paddle may not keep your head out of the water if you are fully clothed, and will soon result in exhaustion regardless. This is even true of dogs. Until a dog or a human becomes comfortable in the water, they will exhaust themselves trying to use the dog-paddle to climb upward out of the water. This is an instinctive panic reaction that trained lifeguards can spot a mile away. A friend of mine worked several years as a LG, and had several “saves” and none required mouth-mouth, because he spotted the panic and pulled them out before they actually inhaled any water/drowned. The only one that even got an ambulance was due to an epileptic seizure. ETA: Once dogs learn to relax, they float low in the water and paddle at a fairly slow rate…some will even learn to use their tail as a rudder. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/31 "2012-06-29T16:13:22Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Floating with your back up and out of the water is relatively easy, and you’ll acquire that skill shortly after you die. It is easy, you just have to lift your head out every now and then to take a breath. It’s called the dean man’s float. Ironic, as it’s a useful thing to stay alive. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/32 "2012-06-29T16:16:41Z")
MY SO does not know how to swim but I’m sure he can doggie paddle if need be. But I am surprised how the knowledge stays with you. I last swam 15+ years ago and now I am swimming again daily and it is just so…wonderful. And easy. I’m very grateful to my parents for insisting. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/33 "2012-06-29T16:17:43Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Then I asked a swim instructor about it. She said that’s nonsense. Everyone floats. Your swim instructor is wrong. > [@](#): > > The human body is slightly heavier than fresh water. Consequently, when > unconsciousness takes place, the body sinks. Fat bodies are slightly more > buoyant than thin bodies, but still all bodies will sink in fresh water. [biology of drowning](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=bodies%20sinking%20in%20fresh%20water&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.operationtakemehome.org%2Fsar%2FFire%2520and%2520Rescue%2520Personnel%2FBiology%2520of%2520drowning.pdf&ei=yNTtT9LFJY2k8QT_v7mTAg&usg=AFQjCNEXRc3Grjas25ouK_SlLosP0eNpFQ) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/34 "2012-06-29T16:20:04Z")
_Fat bodies are slightly more buoyant than thin bodies…_ Sheee-it. I must be the Hindenberg. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/35 "2012-06-29T16:21:56Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Your swim instructor is wrong. > > [biology of drowning](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=bodies%20sinking%20in%20fresh%20water&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.operationtakemehome.org%2Fsar%2FFire%2520and%2520Rescue%2520Personnel%2FBiology%2520of%2520drowning.pdf&ei=yNTtT9LFJY2k8QT_v7mTAg&usg=AFQjCNEXRc3Grjas25ouK_SlLosP0eNpFQ) I think maybe she meant “Everyone _can_ float.” It is easier for some people, though. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Tyger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Silver\_Tyger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Tyger)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/36 "2012-06-29T16:25:37Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I am. > > I know that we’ve had this discussion before, and some people are convinced that they sink like rocks, that’s just the way they are. Then I asked a swim instructor about it. She said that’s nonsense. Everyone floats. Not everyone. I’m sure this is no longer true for her, but I had a friend at camp who had so little body fat (and hadn’t gone through puberty yet, so no breasts) who, if she was still, would sink. I watched her do it. On the other hand, she was a very good swimmer. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/37 "2012-06-29T16:27:41Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I think maybe she meant “Everyone _can_ float.” It is easier for some people, though. Yeah, I think so. She said that in her experience (or teaching thousands of kids) not one person naturally sank to the bottom. Every single one was teachable. If we naturally sink, how does the dead man’s float work? Of course, in doing it you’ll have a lungfull of air. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/38 "2012-06-29T16:30:41Z")
I won’t call it floating if you have to use some mechanisum (i.e. holding your breath) to do it. To each his own. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/39 "2012-06-29T16:32:12Z")
> [@Silver\_Tyger](#): > > Not everyone. I’m sure this is no longer true for her, but I had a friend at camp who had so little body fat (and hadn’t gone through puberty yet, so no breasts) who, if she was still, would sink. I watched her do it. On the other hand, she was a very good swimmer. At one point I was lean enough that I could only keep my nose just above water when floating on my back (head back) with my lungs very full of air, and my torso was near vertical, because my legs were strongly muscled. To float, I had to hold my breath, and breath in quick in-out gasps. Sadly I float way better now, 25 years later. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/40 "2012-06-29T16:40:34Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I know that we’ve had this discussion before, and some people are convinced that they sink like rocks, that’s just the way they are. Then I asked a swim instructor about it. She said that’s nonsense. Everyone floats. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Everybody floats. That’s a simple matter of physics. The point is that you have to learn to float with your head out of the water so you can breath. I used to be a swim instructor, and I used to teach swim instructors. And every time this topic comes up here, people conflate the _physical property_ of buoyancy with the _learned skill_ of floating. Women are typically neutrally buoyant. Men are typically negatively buoyant. Body density can affect that somewhat. But floating is a _learnable skill_ That’s why we have swim instructors. Even if someone is naturally buoyant, they’ll sink if they panic in the water – usually because they’ve expelled all their breath from their lungs, thereby increasing their overall body density and they’re no longer positively buoyant. Body position is another affector of whether or not you’ll be successful at floating. These things are learnable, and I’d agree, _necessary_ to learn. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700.md?page=3)