# How can one NOT know how to swim? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 29, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700 "2012-06-29T14:58:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/101 "2012-06-29T21:47:03Z")
> [@MoonMoon](#): > > I also can’t tread water very well and have never understood how it’s supposed to give you a “rest” in the water. The same. One thing I taught myself --learned from a “drown-proofing” article-- as doing a controlled bob: remaining upright, letting your head go underwater, and calmly propelling your head above the surface every 10 seconds or so to take a breath. And then allowing yourself to submerge again till the next breath. That works for me and gave me some confidence (might not work for a less buoyant person) , but when I got caught in a Gulf riptide it was totally worthless. Breakers threw my body around and made any controlled motions impossible. So I’d like to reiterate a point several people have already made: rough water changes the floating/swimming equations. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/102 "2012-06-30T00:56:51Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > By quickly I don’t mean immediately. I mean within a few hours. > > When they panic do they sink to the bottom, or do they stand up? And once they realize that they can avoid drowning by standing does it alleviate their fears? Most people cannot teach themselves to swim by puttering around for a few hours. I’ve taught a few self-taught swimmers, and they each had spent quite a lot of time in the water (thankfully, not alone). Each of them had extremely bad technique that had to be unlearned and re-taught; I don’t think any of them would have survived a crisis situation. People panicking in water do NOT simply stand up. That’s logical thinking which is beyond them at that point. Even if you tell them beforehand, “If you get in trouble, _stand up_”, once they panic they can’t think enough to remember that. I’ve had to fish up adults who were choking and starting to drown, while I was standing next to them in waist-deep water. I had one guy grab on to me around my neck in deeper water, and basically started to choke me in his panic. Some people may be able to think rationally in a panic situation, but many adult nonswimmers are nonswimmers because they are can’t think rationally about being in the water. Even swimmers can panic – my brother once swam out to pull a guy out of a riptide, and the guy tried to climb up on him (thereby pushing my brother under), until talked back; the guy had thought he was a strong enough swimmer to venture out into open water on his own. > [@ThisSpaceForRent](#): > > When I started teaching swimming at age 12. Kids were the EASIEST to teach, as long as their parents were not around, parents seem to distract and impart their fears and predispositions. Oh man, that is _so_ true. I also think the kids know when mommy or daddy is around, and crank up the drama for the audience. I loved teaching at the Y that had no pool deck seating; kids couldn’t see who was watching from the gallery. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/103 "2012-06-30T01:14:28Z")
When I was a kid, before polio vaccine, I wasn’t allowed to go to a pool as a kid. I was, however, allowed to go into the ocean. And my father taught me to swim under the most favorable circumstances possible: in the bay behind Atlantic City. Salt water and no waves (though it had tides, of course). I think everyone floats in salt water. It’s been years since I swam in a pool and I have lost about 70 lbs since then, so I don’t know if I would still float in a pool. But I swim in the Caribbean ocean off Barbados every winter. Sheer heaven. Salt water and a generally light surf. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/104 "2012-06-30T01:27:12Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I am. > > I know that we’ve had this discussion before, and some people are convinced that they sink like rocks, that’s just the way they are. Then I asked a swim instructor about it. She said that’s nonsense. Everyone floats. > [@doorhinge](#): > > Fat floats. Bones do not float. Muscle tissue does not float. Lung tissue does not float. Lungs filled with air will float. > A person with a low body-fat percentage will sink unless they are making some effort to stay afloat. If such a person were to take several deep breaths to overload their body with oxygen, they could then sink to the pottom of a pool and sit there for a short period of time. > > A person with a very high percentage of body-fat will require a lot less movement to stay afloat. Exactly. back when I met mrAru he was very muscular, to the point where unless he actively trod water he sank like a rock. Highly amusing to watch him when he was in a pool 😃 He is an extremely good swimmer, having been competitive back in High School [California, Kerman HS back in 79-82] Me? Currently I don’t think I could drown unless something made me float head down, I am seriously fat … I float like a freaking cork.☹ ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/105 "2012-06-30T01:27:41Z")
It’s also possible to drown even if you do know how to swim. Consider someone like me, for instance: I know the basic strokes, and under good conditions I can do something resembling the backstroke close to indefinitely. Well, once I went on a canoeing trip with Boy Scouts, and one of the safety requirements was that we had to be able to jump in the water and swim to a pier 20 feet away. Should be no problem, right? Except the river was _cold_ (at least, colder than a swimming pool), and in the sudden shock of the cold, I partially panicked. I _was_ able to manage to doggypaddle the entire distance, and so qualified, but I literally could not do any other sort of stroke, and I was pretty well worn out at the end of it. If something like that had happened not under controlled circumstances, and with safety much more than 20 feet away, I probably would have drowned. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/106 "2012-06-30T01:55:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Except the river was _cold_ (at least, colder than a swimming pool), and in the sudden shock of the cold, I partially panicked. I _was_ able to manage to doggypaddle the entire distance, and so qualified, but I literally could not do any other sort of stroke, and I was pretty well worn out at the end of it. If something like that had happened not under controlled circumstances, and with safety much more than 20 feet away, I probably would have drowned. Cold water doesn’t just kill from hypothermia. Like you said the shock of the cold water basically means you can not coordinate your muscles so that your breathing and swimming are BOTH controlled and coordinated. Well, in water over your head you NEED to do both at the same time. I live in the deep south. But you can bet your ass once the water gets on the chilly side I wear a life jacket. And I consider myself a good swimmer and have no fear of water. Here is a VERY good video here. If these young studs have problems Joe Walmart Schmoe sure as hell will. The stats are quite chilling 🙂 And I also take regular non swimming hypothermia very serious and am convinced I came damn close to dieing of it once. Again, in the deep south and not in OMG! its cold as shit circumstances either. But thats a different story... ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/107 "2012-06-30T02:09:51Z")
I can’t swim. I never needed to learn. As I got older, respiratory problems caused me to hyperventilate in cold water or when I exerted too much. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/108 "2012-06-30T02:47:53Z")
Despite growing up in the land of 10,000 lakes I never learned. I can dog paddle a little, but only for a minute before I run out of enough energy to keep me on top of the water. I meet a lot of poeople that just assume everyone knows how to swim. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/109 "2012-06-30T03:58:34Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I am. > > I know that we’ve had this discussion before, and some people are convinced that they sink like rocks, that’s just the way they are. Then I asked a swim instructor about it. She said that’s nonsense. Everyone floats. HORSE puckey! I taught aqua aerobics for 10 years, and I can assure you, there are people who do sink like stones. It wasn’t super common, but over the years, I had at least one student per semester who, unless they were actively treading water, or doing a purposeful back float, or other wise working on it, would definitely sink. ---
**Author:** ![Rhaegar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/51bf81/32.png) [@Rhaegar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhaegar)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/110 "2012-06-30T04:04:13Z")
When I was growing up in Oregon, my school had all of us learn to swim by the 4th grade. They took us to the pool and had us not just learn the strokes, but also survival floating, swimming with your clothes on, how to turn your pants into a floatation device, etc. I had always thought that all schools did this until I met my non-swimmer wife who grew up in the California school system. ---
**Author:** ![MoonMoon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moonmoon/32/2959_2.png) [@MoonMoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoonMoon)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/111 "2012-06-30T12:40:19Z")
> [@Waenara](#): > > Out of curiosity, how were you taught to tread water? I mean, which technique do you use? > > I know some people IRL who have told me that treading water is very difficult and tiring, and they all used the method where you move your legs like you’re “riding a bicycle”. I took a lot of swimming lessons as a kid and I was a pretty good swimmer, and I don’t like that method. Instead, I tread water with a motion like your legs are an “eggbeater”. My sister and I also took synchronized swimming lessons (me only briefly, and her for many years), and the “eggbeater” method is the one they use. It takes way less energy than “bicycling”, and I find I can tread water for longer and keep my head/shoulders out of the water far easier that way. I’m trying to visualize how legs would move like an eggbeater. 😃 I’m going to have to hit YouTube and see if there are some treading water videos. I think I do a combo of up/down and side to side motions, with my arms going too. ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/112 "2012-06-30T13:20:57Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > As a former lifeguard & Water Safey Instructor (the level that teaches lifeguards), I must say it’s much better to practice this first, with a ‘victim’ who is only playing a role in a controlled situation than with a real drowning person who is panicing. This is why Emergency Services & military drill constantly, so that Plan B is second nature when the situation turns to shit. > The article doesn’t say anything about what to do when you are approaching them from behind & they suddenly turn around & lunge at you. Because of my training, I’ve learned the finer points of how to approach someone, how close to get, how to get away, etc. The goal is not to be a dead hero. It’s hardly rocket science, but it’s much tougher than looking good in a bathing suit while running down the beach, a la Babewatch; er, ah Baywatch. I have to agree with that. I’m fortunate enough never to have had to drag a struggling adult out of the water, but I have pulled a couple of kids out of the water and even a small struggling child can pull you down - they panic so much they try to climb you to get their heads above water. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/113 "2012-06-30T13:50:55Z")
> [@MoonMoon](#): > > I’m trying to visualize how legs would move like an eggbeater. 😃 I’m going to have to hit YouTube and see if there are some treading water videos. I think I do a combo of up/down and side to side motions, with my arms going too. The Technique of the Eggbeater Kick > **[Sport Science - Sport coach information](https://www.coachesinfo.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=231:waterpoloeggkick&catid=70:waterpologeneralarticles&Itemid=131)** The Bicycle Slide in Water Polo > **[Sport Science - Sport coach information](https://www.coachesinfo.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10244:bicycleslide&catid=70:waterpologeneralarticles&Itemid=131)** ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/114 "2012-06-30T20:20:56Z")
> [@MoonMoon](#): > > I’m trying to visualize how legs would move like an eggbeater. 😃 I’m going to have to hit YouTube and see if there are some treading water videos. I think I do a combo of up/down and side to side motions, with my arms going too. I almost included a YouTube video in my post and then decided not to. :smack: Here is a pretty good [video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR5S04vYe2I). There is a description of how it works and a demonstration. I would note that the demo at the end has pretty vigorous/fast leg movements. It’s usually not necessary to be moving your legs that quickly - it depends on how much lift you need out of the water. Synchronized swimmers or water polo players who need to have their chest and shoulders out of the water need to kick pretty quickly, but if you only need your head out of the water you kick much slower. ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/115 "2012-06-30T20:25:37Z")
> [@Waenara](#): > > I almost included a YouTube video in my post and then decided not to. :smack: > > Here is a pretty good [video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR5S04vYe2I). I must be exceptionally buoyant (must be the giant knockers). I never have to work that hard to tread water. Then again, he might be over-compensating to teach proper form. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/116 "2012-06-30T22:57:43Z")
My mother lost her only brother to a drowning accident when I was two. He was an expert swimmer. We were never allowed to even play in a filled bathtub after that. Fear of water was instilled in us from toddlerhood. We lived five minutes from the ocean, we never went in more than ankle deep. We never went to a pool. By the time I was in high school, I was terrified of water. In some ways I still am, though I swim laps two or three times a week. I cannot swim in open water. When I learned how to swim at age 33 it was extremely scary. I stood in 3.5 feet of water for the first two lessons unable to put my face into the water. I did once try to face my fear and went on a whitewater rafting trip, before I learned to swim. Naturally I fell in and was in the freezing Kennebec river for 45 minutes. I was sure I was going to die. But even now, every time I swim a lap and am in the 11 ft part of the pool, I worry about drowning. I don’t really relax until I am back in the \<6 ft zone. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/117 "2012-07-01T00:19:35Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > My mother lost her only brother to a drowning accident when I was two. He was an expert swimmer. I don’t want to seem callous because I know it can happen in unusual conditions but can you explain how an expert swimmer like your uncle drowned? That just doesn’t happen unless there are some bizarre cirsumstaces that you didn’t share. I cetrainly know it can happen in open ocean. My favorite swimming place in Hawaii, [Sandy Beach](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r78tf7lyCkk) kills a few people a year, disables a lot more, and only top swimmers are allowed into the water in the first place. I have known a few other people that drowned from stupid choices but I think we are talking about calm water like swimming pools and lakes here. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/118 "2012-07-01T00:40:59Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I don’t want to seem callous because I know it can happen in unusual conditions but can you explain how an expert swimmer like your uncle drowned? That just doesn’t happen unless there are some bizarre cirsumstaces that you didn’t share.. It only takes a moment of panic. Or a bad moment where you inhale a bunch of water which quite often causes panic. Or cold(ish) water (see my video link above). IMO you can be a very good swimmer and still have a bad day and drown. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/119 "2012-07-01T01:20:32Z")
I’m also one of these people who can’t tread for shit. I managed to get an “A” in my high school swimming class, but that’s just because I just barely was able to pass all the proficiency tests to get that grade. I _suck_ as a swimmer. I can run a half-marathon or more, but as soon as I hit the water, I get all anaerobic. I’ve had at least a dozen people explain treading water to me, and I still cannot do it in any way I would call “relaxing” and sustainable. The only way I float on my back is if I take a full breath of air and hold it. (Or if I’m in saltwater, like in the Adriatic.) As soon as I start breathing normally, I bob under. No matter how much I relax. Luckily, I’m comfortable with the whole “survival float” procedure. I’m not scared of water, and I’m fine with doing a few laps. I’ve just never gotten the hang of it, despite instruction at school and from my peers. I don’t think it’s impossible for me to learn, but it’s hardly an intuitive skill. It’s one of those skills I really wish I had. When I dream, one of my “relaxation dreams” is being at a pool and effortlessly swimming. In my subconscious, it’s apparently a place of peace and meditation. In real life, it’s just a controlled struggle against impending death. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700/120 "2012-07-01T20:56:44Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I don’t want to seem callous because I know it can happen in unusual conditions but can you explain how an expert swimmer like your uncle drowned? That just doesn’t happen unless there are some bizarre cirsumstaces that you didn’t share. Hey I was two years old, and this was in Pakistan in the 1960s, not much in the way of good records for me to research, even if I had wanted to. But I have seen the swimming trophies he won before he drowned. I have also seen the newspaper clippings about the accident. Three men in their early twenties were caught up in a rip-tide and just disappeared. There is some speculation that he was trying to rescue his friends, but there is no way to know. All three bodies washed up on the beach a few hours later. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-one-not-know-how-to-swim/626700.md?page=7)