It just occurred to me that arguing with a flat earther is exactly the same as arguing with a devout Christian. No argument, no matter how ironclad it is to you, is going to sway either of them.
I’ve often thought that this model, with the magical light bulb traversing above various parts of the globe, should be disprovable by measuring the angle that the Sun appears to be at, from any location.
In the flat Earth model, the sun’s angle should change the quickest when it’s overhead, and be a smaller value as it gets closer to the horizon, because it’s really moving basically horizontally away from you (to be over people on other parts of the flat Earth).
But with a model where the Sun goes all the way around, you’d see it move 15 degrees every hour uniformly. This is easy to measure, just get an equatorial mount from a cheap telescope. No need for a $20k ring laser gyro.
Not sure it has been said yet (did not read the whole thread) and it is not an absolute proof but:
Give them a telescope and have them look at any other celestial object of substantial size. They are all spheres. Sun, moon, any planet they can see.
That does not mean earth is also round but it does strongly suggest that earth is a sphere unless they want to say earth is truly unique in the universe.
The advantage to this is you can do this in your backyard with a cheap(ish) telescope. Better/more expensive telescopes are even better.
Actual argument made by an actual flat Earther;
“All telescopes come with pre-installed NASA pictures*, better/more expensive telescopes have even better pictures.”
*Yes, even telescopes that are nothing but cardboard and glass. Apparently it’s the glass.
CMC fnord!
I posted a video back in 2018 that had what I thought was one pretty good slam dunk (post 44).
Here is a recent video posting with 10 good pieces of evidence:
Err…
I don’t deny someone said that but…really?
NASA preloaded every picture of every celestial object you could ever see at any time, day or night, in any conditions so they could fool you? (not “you” you…flat earther person)
Why would they even try? I mean, what is the benefit in fooling people that the earth is flat? It would have to be pretty big to go to the effort they seem to think we have (moon landings, satellites, telescopes with pre-installed everything pictures and so on).
That takes a special level of stupid.
That won’t work - yes, those things up in the sky are spheres, but that’s like looking up at the ceiling and noting that all the lights are light-bulb shaped, and then saying that the floor you’re standing on must be light-bulb shaped.
Remember, they don’t think of the Earth as one of many bodies in the galaxy; the Earth is the foundation of all existence, and that other stuff up there is just decoration.
To establish proof for an individual Flat-Earther:
[ol]
[li] Grab any available Flat-Earther (FE).[/li][li] Give FE a walkie-talkie or equivalent.[/li][li] Tie FE to fluorescent pink weather balloon.[/li][li] Launch balloon in path of Jet Stream.[/li][li] Monitor FE’s observations from many klicks up as they circle the globe.[/li][li] Launch more balloons to provide FE with supplies, if they live so long.[/li][li] If they sail over the edge, good riddance.[/li][/ol]
That only works one-at-a-time. We need more weather balloons.
No, bad analogy.
The floor is not a light bulb. Not the same thing.
Jupiter is a planet and the Earth is a planet. Same thing.
You forgot to give them oxygen.
And cold weather gear.
“Forget”. Mmmm, yeah.
They don’t say that, at least I don’t think they do. Jupiter is a light in the sky, while the Earth is the foundation that the world is built upon.
The big question, in my opinion, is: how do I prove the Earth is curved, without travelling excessive distances, buying expensive equipment, or spending large sums of resources, which none of us really have.
I have land surveying experience, and I can prove to most people that the Earth is round. I rely on equipment that costs around $1000.00 or so, and a mathematical background that includes (but is not limited to) algebra, geometry & trigonometry.
I do not have the patience to teach these things to people who do not know of them already. I do not have the resources to show the curvature of the Earth, it costs several million dollars for one ticket on a rocket ship. Nor, can I just buy someone a ticket on an airplane or a ship to see these things in person.
Paraphrasing from Aaron Ra, to know that the Earth is round, a person needs to know something. Accepting that the Earth is flat, a person does not need to know anything. If someone says to me, “The Earth is flat,” then I am going to nod my head and say “uh-huh.” and I am going to talk to someone else.
But you have the Internet.
I Googled for “foucault pendulum webcam”. Here’s some hits:
I once saw a webcam for a South African one, but I can’t find it right not. That one revolves the opposite direction.
The period of a Foucault pendulum is inversely proportional to 1/ sine of latitude. So 1 rotation per day at the poles and no rotation (infinite period) at the Equator. With the sign of the latitude indicating the direction of rotation. No flat Earth model explains any of this one bit. (Outside of denying they work which you can clearly see for yourself they do.)
Just regular outdoor webcams tell you a lot about day/night/seasons/etc. that no flat Earth nutjob can remotely give any sort of equations for.
And of course there are satellites. There are a bunch of websites such as this one where you plug in your location and it will tell you when a satellite such as the ISS will be passing over you so you can spot it. Note how long it takes to cross the sky, etc. Do the Math. Confirm that what you see is a thing moving in a circular orbit above you. Note that this works for anyone, anywhere. The planet’s round, dude.
There are just tons of things like this. The thing to keep in mind with flat Earthers is they never give equations to explain things.
E.g., take the analemmas you see on globes. Due to the Earth’s orbit not being a perfect circle combined with the tilt on it’s axis (neither of which a flat Earth has), the difference between clock noon and the “Sun being overhead” noon* varies during the year. The analema helps you figure out this difference.
Real Science long ago figured the equation for this. No flat Earther can explain why we need one let alone derive an equation for one.
- For the pre-time zone notion of “noon”.
I might have missed the explanation. Most conspiracies try to gain something. How do round-Earth conspirators benefit from their deception? What do they gain? How is round-Earthism more profitable than flat-Earthism?
Think of the vast amount of government 'space money" that could be secretly redirected for some other devious secret project.
Flat earthers were internet trolls before the internet was invented. Its a position simply designed to get a reaction out of people.
HAARP mind-control rays. Antarctic Nazi flying-saucer bases. Orbiting satellites. All are distractions from what’s REALLY going on. We hardly notice the disguised ETs around us. [names of political-religious-entertainment figures deleted] We may as well be dots in Flatland as polygons shift and wriggle around us.
Earth: flat. The night sky: lights through a lid.
The universe: flat. Reality: projections on a wall.
Coin and bills: flat. Finance: lights on a flat display screen.
Coincidence? Twice is a coincidence. Thrice or more is a conspiracy.
I grew up conservative Mormon and was a Young Earth Creationist, as was everyone I knew then, including my high school biology teacher.
There simple was nothing you could have shown me to make me change my mind.
Flat earthers will believe, all evidence aside.
Another response to Ficer67:
Tide tables. You can find tide tables online for all around the world. Note that there is nothing unusual regarding tides in the S. hemisphere vs. the N. hemisphere.
All calculated based on the Moon and Sun’s relative positions in the sky and a round Earth.
If these tables were “fake”, the locals would immediately notice that the tides and tables don’t match up.
Flat Earthers can’t explain any of this, not even why there are two tides a day, let alone give equations. Something that Newton did over 300 years ago with less data, no computers and Math he had to invent himself. And yet flat Earthers can’t give a single equation for any of this.
Re: Flat Earther motives. A lot of it is religious. The Bible says the Earth is flat, so it’s flat. Another key component is that a flat Earth “makes sense” to them. E.g., it explains why you don’t feel the motion of the Earth turning, why Australians don’t fall “down”, etc. There are many, many sincere but delusional people.