# How can some people go to jail for 2+ years for being on To Catch A Predator? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 7, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862 "2011-10-07T03:24:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/263 "2011-10-11T04:10:11Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > **ModernPrimate** isn’t just minimizing the online interactions, but also claiming to have some insight into the 21 year old’s actual intentions which differ greatly from what he proposes in chat. This is why I say “show me the chat transcript”, and also why I say “don’t give me any mindreading crap”–“let’s have sex” means let’s have sex, and “I’m 13” doesn’t mean “I can think she’s 18+, because everyone on the internet lies”. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/264 "2011-10-11T04:30:57Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > This is why I say “show me the chat transcript”, and also why I say “don’t give me any mindreading crap”–“let’s have sex” means let’s have sex, and “I’m 13” doesn’t mean “I can think she’s 18+, because everyone on the internet lies”. Exactly. Some here feel the age of consent should be lowered well below the age of 16 because they claim persons of this age are mature enough to handle the responsibilities consequences of a sexual relationship. Yet **ModernPrimate** feels that a 21 year old should not be held responsible for following the law. Laws aren’t written on the fly, **ModernPrimate** , nor are exceptions made for bumbling, horny 21 year olds in search of oral sex from 14 year old virgins. Pick an arbitrary age at which all persons can be considered legal adults and thus held legally responsible for following the law. Is it 14? 18? 21? ---
**Author:** ![ModernPrimate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@ModernPrimate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ModernPrimate)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/265 "2011-10-11T04:42:00Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Please show me links to the Perverted-justice transcripts where this has happened. The wikipedia section you cite is short on facts and cites and long on generic criticisms. > > I am basing my judgements on the PJ transcripts that I have personally read. This is utterly crazy, crazy stuff. I tried to be nice, I tried to find some excuses and to accept your total ignorance of what you were supposed to be talking about. I even gave you the link. :smack: The citation for what he said is right there. It’s on the MSNBC page. :smack: Here it is: [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11131562/#.TpPH3HI9160](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11131562/#.TpPH3HI9160) Are you going to come back now and say MSNBC is lying? :smack: Durrrr Durrrrr Durrrrr. :smack: I cannot talk with someone who persists and strives to be 100% ignorant and devoid of any knowledge on the subject even when I try to spoonfeed it as best I can, provide them with superb links and be as nice as possible about their clear misconceptions and undeniably false claims. It would make no sense, it would have no meaning to discuss anything further with you about this because your “opinions” are worse than worthless, they are a complete fantasy. Troppus, I have read your comments without feeling any real inclination to respond to them, besides it’s late here and I’m tired. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/266 "2011-10-11T04:56:42Z")
So you just provided a clear, concise argument as to why TCAP’s methods do _not_ qualify as entrapment. Thanks, I guess, for taking the time to reconsider your initial argument. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/267 "2011-10-11T05:18:45Z")
> [@IAmError403](#): > > But for the former, how are we to know that they didn’t think the girls were older than she said she was. Are the chat logs between someone role playing and someone truly convinced the girl is underage going to be that different? Are the intentions of role playing and actually soliciting to a minor going to be obviously different? ‘But officer, she told me she was 13!’ That is what’s so hysterical here. I support most Romeo and Juliet laws and have no interest in honest guys being lied to by underage girls (e.g. in a bar where you have to be 21 to enter) then being charged for it when the parents find out. But this couldn’t be an easier red flag for law-abiding citizens (who, I know, accidentally found themselves in the My Little Pony Fan Zone). You don’t even have to check ID! Whoever compared this to preachers assuming gay marriage will have everyone turning gay, because they assume everyone is struggling like they are, was spot on. ---
**Author:** ![IAmError403](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dec6dc/32.png) [@IAmError403](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IAmError403)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/268 "2011-10-11T05:20:34Z")
To prove entrapment, all you need to do is run this test: Would a crime have occurred without police involvement? Why is it that most of these men haven’t acted before? Could it be that they had no intention before meeting the decoy? In many of the transcripts I may see that the defendant is the one responsible for talking about sex, but it always seems to be the decoy asking if the guy wants to come over and giving out an address. It’s not like the guy says: I hacked your computer and found your address. I’m on my way whether you like it or not. It seems the toughest thing the decoys have to do is convince the perp to come over and that need to convince is entrapment. [http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/03/20/to-catch-a-predator-creating-a-problem-where-one-doesnt-exist/](http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/03/20/to-catch-a-predator-creating-a-problem-where-one-doesnt-exist/) How dangerous are these people we are putting in jail? How much of a threat are these ‘predators’ really? I think Zeriel has proved my point about the hysteria: > [@](#): > > You are an evil scumbag. I don’t care if you’ve been legally “entrapped” into doing it. yep, that’s right, it’s Satan. You know, “evil.” That word Christians throw around so easily and attribute to anything they don’t understand or dislike. Muslims? Evil. Obama? Evil. Health care? Evil. Child molestation is the only case where a person who believes in evolution, mental illness (as opposed to evil spirits), and science would make an exception. It’s black and white and there are no excuses. I am also glad that he mentions that he doesn’t care if it’s entrapment. He just wants them gone. You don’t care if the rules are bent to put these people away, but you’d probably have very different feelings if it were a different type of crime. I think it’s pretty clear that rules are being bent and it seems outside of this community, most people don’t think of Perverted Justice in a positive light. I am at least giving these people the benefit of the doubt, that whatever they are going through is not something I’d want to. And that they aren’t evil so much as they are very sick and need psychological treatment. I’d prefer instead of driving them underground, we drive them to seek help in the same way we drive those with drug problems to seek help. But it’s not exactly something you can identify from the surface and it’s not something we have allowed to be openly discussed with a great deal of ridicule (from people like Zeriel). Zeriel, if a family member, or even one of your own kids told you that they had this illness, would your immediate reaction be to set up a police string so they’d be in jail? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/269 "2011-10-11T05:24:32Z")
If it hasn’t been said already, the complaints about some younger girls being ‘not that innocent’ (or having the gall to be curious or bring up sex online), or seducing older men, calling them multiple times… yeah. These are pretty familiar. They’re what predators say when there actually is a victim involved. And the seduction often involves ‘flirting’ (as they perceive it), being interested in sex (like teens tend to be), wearing revealing clothing and so on. No need for Chris Hansen. ---
**Author:** ![IAmError403](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dec6dc/32.png) [@IAmError403](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IAmError403)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/270 "2011-10-11T05:29:38Z")
> [@IAmError403](#): > > But it’s not exactly something you can identify from the surface and it’s not something we have allowed to be openly discussed with a great deal of ridicule (from people like Zeriel). Correction: with=without. At what point am I allowed to edit my posts after the 5min mark? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/271 "2011-10-11T05:30:12Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > This is utterly crazy, crazy stuff. I tried to be nice, I tried to find some excuses and to accept your total ignorance of what you were supposed to be talking about. I even gave you the link. :smack: Right, but A) you have three elements of entrapment, and that speaks to at best one, and that’s if we assume that the staff were acting as “law enforcement agents” and not as private citizens. B) Also, none of the examples in the link constitute entrapment by the legal definition I cited. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/272 "2011-10-11T05:35:30Z")
> [@IAmError403](#): > > To prove entrapment, all you need to do is run this test: > Would a crime have occurred without police involvement? Erroneous. I have provided the three-part test for entrapment. > [@](#): > > In many of the transcripts I may see that the defendant is the one responsible for talking about sex, but it always seems to be the decoy asking if the guy wants to come over and giving out an address. Cite a specific example. > [@](#): > > I am also glad that he mentions that he doesn’t care if it’s entrapment. He just wants them gone. You don’t care if the rules are bent to put these people away, but you’d probably have very different feelings if it were a different type of crime. I would not support jailing them if they were legally entrapped. They were not. They would still be evil if they were. Moral judgements are not legal ones, after all. The rules, as I have posted them, were not bent in any cite thus provided. > [@](#): > > I think it’s pretty clear that rules are being bent and it seems outside of this community, most people don’t think of Perverted Justice in a positive light. The same is true of any number of good things. Argument from popularity is silly. > [@](#): > > I am at least giving these people the benefit of the doubt, that whatever they are going through is not something I’d want to. And that they aren’t evil so much as they are very sick and need psychological treatment. I’d prefer instead of driving them underground, we drive them to seek help in the same way we drive those with drug problems to seek help. But it’s not exactly something you can identify from the surface and it’s not something we have allowed to be openly discussed with a great deal of ridicule (from people like Zeriel). Okay, here’s a fun fact for you–you can look up my posting history. When we had a confessed pedophile who had NOT acted on his illness on this board (Cesario, I think), I took a HELL of a lot of flack for defending his right to talk about it, talk about age of consent laws and the lowering/removal thereof, and about his problem. I didn’t demonize him in the slightest, because he HAD NOT COMMITTED THE CRIME. He was so creepy about it he was banned, and frankly I thought that was borderline iffy as well. THAT dog don’t hunt. > [@](#): > > Zeriel, if a family member, or even one of your own kids told you that they had this illness, would your immediate reaction be to set up a police string so they’d be in jail? If that friend or family member told me, I’d assist them in getting treatment. The illness is not evil. ACTING on it is evil. Meanwhile, in the real world, a 27-yr-old friend of mine DID solicit and have sex with a 15-yr-old he met online. While I was aware he was talking to her, I told him he should seek counseling rather than make a mistake that would ruin his life and probably hers, and offered him the cash to pay for it. When he ignored me and went to meet her, I dropped a dime and I’m happy he went to jail, because he crossed the line. I cannot think of a single instance where someone not in the act of attempting to prey on a child was “driven underground” by this. The stigma is in the actions, not in the illness. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/273 "2011-10-11T05:39:05Z")
> [@IAmError403](#): > > Correction: with=without. At what point am I allowed to edit my posts after the 5min mark? For your reference: never. It’s to prevent people retroactively changing unpopular words after responses have happened. ---
**Author:** ![IAmError403](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dec6dc/32.png) [@IAmError403](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IAmError403)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/274 "2011-10-11T05:44:39Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > If it hasn’t been said already, the complaints about some younger girls being ‘not that innocent’ (or having the gall to be curious or bring up sex online), or seducing older men, calling them multiple times… yeah. These are pretty familiar. They’re what predators say when there actually is a victim involved. And the seduction often involves ‘flirting’ (as they perceive it), being interested in sex (like teens tend to be), wearing revealing clothing and so on. No need for Chris Hansen. I am sure there are plenty who are delusional enough to think the girl was actually seducing them when they weren’t, but I don’t think those instances and the conversations with decoys are similar at all. It is the decoy who is usually insistent on meeting and more than willing to give out such personal information. I don’t know why these men are stupid enough to fall for it, perhaps most don’t and we just never heard about them, but do any teens you know do this? If you were a teenager and some guy had been going on at length about sex, but you seemed indifferent (meaning neither confirming or denying an interest), would you then proceed to give out an address to them and tell them that you want them to come over? Isn’t that indirectly confirming that you do want to have sex with them? If i was talking to a consenting adult, and I was making lewd comments to her (which is not something I would typically do - assume I am drunk). And then she asks if I’m coming over and gives me her address, would it be so wrong of me to assume that she is interested in having sex with me? If I showed up to her house, could you blame me for wanting to get physical right away? Shouldn’t I be a little confused and disappointed when she says: “Woah! WTF! I just wanted to play Parcheesi.” In these cases, I don’t know that these men are all that delusional about the decoy showing more than just a passing interest in sex. Does that give someone a right to come over and have sex with a minor? No, but that isn’t what happened anyway. And I find it hard to believe that such a scenario so frequently occurs that we need to set up these stings. I understand that we have these laws to protect the powerless, but I don’t think the way in which we are getting these convictions are right. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/275 "2011-10-11T05:44:48Z")
Okay, I’m posting a run, but if I get into specifics, the entrapment case is even worse. In my state, by statute 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 313, entrapment requires > [@18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 313](#): > > (a) General rule.–A public law enforcement official or a > person acting in cooperation with such an official perpetrates > an entrapment if for the purpose of obtaining evidence of the > commission of an offense, he induces or encourages another > person to engage in conduct constituting such offense by either: > (1) making knowingly false representations designed to > induce the belief that such conduct is not prohibited; or > (2) employing methods of persuasion or inducement which > create a substantial risk that such an offense will be > committed by persons other than those who are ready to commit > it. 1. is not violated–there is never any claim that the act is not a crime. 2. is not violated–the alleged perp is generally up front about their desires, and in a venue specifically organized to facilitate the kind of conversation being discussed. “Substantial Risk” is not defined in the statute, mind you, but the type of action being discussed undertaken by TCAP/PJ has been ruled as not falling under the statute in many, many rulings thus far in my state–the rationale was that the perps were (in every case in PA) discovering the decoy victims in a place/manner designed to facilitate anonymous sexual encounters. “Entrapment is no defense where Commonwealth did nothing more than offer defendant opportunity to commit crime.” Com. v. Wright, 340 A.2d 544, 235 Pa.Super. 289 (1975). “Use by law enforcement of Internet sting operation was not so egregious as to constitute entrapment, in prosecution for criminal attempt to commit statutory sexual assault and criminal attempt to commit involuntary deviate sexual intercourse; officer, posing on Internet as 15-year-old girl, merely provided defendant with perceived opportunity to meet and engage in oral sex, officer did not attempt to overcome defendant’s will by submitting photographs of girl, and when defendant expressed concern over illegality of rendezvous, officer, posing as girl, indicated that she would simply call the whole thing off. Internet sting operation, in which law enforcement officer posed as a 15-year-old girl, did not violate public policy.” Com. v. Zingarelli, 839 A.2d 1064, Super.2003, reargument denied, appeal denied 856 A.2d 834, 579 Pa. 692. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/276 "2011-10-11T06:06:27Z")
> [@IAmError403](#): > > … > The only thing we can know for sure online is that the person you are communicating with is probably lying about something. I call bullshit on this. I’ve been “wrong on the internet”, but I’ve never lied. How about showing some actual evidence for your assertion that everyone is “probably lying about something”? Or is this your “lie on the internet”?.. ---
**Author:** ![IAmError403](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dec6dc/32.png) [@IAmError403](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IAmError403)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/277 "2011-10-11T06:07:41Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Okay, I’m posting a run, but if I get into specifics, the entrapment case is even worse. In my state, by statute 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 313, entrapment requires > > 1. is not violated–there is never any claim that the act is not a crime. > 2. is not violated–the alleged perp is generally up front about their desires, and in a venue specifically organized to facilitate the kind of conversation being discussed. “Substantial Risk” is not defined in the statute, mind you, but the type of action being discussed undertaken by TCAP/PJ has been ruled as not falling under the statute in many, many rulings thus far in my state–the rationale was that the perps were (in every case in PA) discovering the decoy victims in a place/manner designed to facilitate anonymous sexual encounters. > > “Entrapment is no defense where Commonwealth did nothing more than offer defendant opportunity to commit crime.” Com. v. Wright, 340 A.2d 544, 235 Pa.Super. 289 (1975). > “Use by law enforcement of Internet sting operation was not so egregious as to constitute entrapment, in prosecution for criminal attempt to commit statutory sexual assault and criminal attempt to commit involuntary deviate sexual intercourse; officer, posing on Internet as 15-year-old girl, merely provided defendant with perceived opportunity to meet and engage in oral sex, officer did not attempt to overcome defendant’s will by submitting photographs of girl, and when defendant expressed concern over illegality of rendezvous, officer, posing as girl, indicated that she would simply call the whole thing off. Internet sting operation, in which law enforcement officer posed as a 15-year-old girl, did not violate public policy.” Com. v. Zingarelli, 839 A.2d 1064, Super.2003, reargument denied, appeal denied 856 A.2d 834, 579 Pa. 692. > [@](#): > > With this test, the courts scrutinize the level of government involvement in the criminal actions to determine if the officers acted in such a way that they would, in a usual case, affirmatively create crime where none would have existed without their actions. > [@](#): > > Rather, the test used is whether the government action would have caused “a normally lawabiding person to commit the offense.” > [@](#): > > the key question is whether the behavior of the government has demonstrated the need for the application of a strong public policy to deter instigation of crime by the government in order to get a conviction. Cases in which improper government action was found include excessive financial inducements, sexual favors given to the suspect, and exploitation of special emotional problems of the defendant. In such cases, the conclusion has been reached that the government simply has gone too far in creating crime rather than in detecting it. > **[Entrapment - The Two Approaches To Entrapment](https://law.jrank.org/pages/1091/Entrapment-two-approaches-entrapment.html)** ---
**Author:** ![IAmError403](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dec6dc/32.png) [@IAmError403](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IAmError403)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/278 "2011-10-11T06:12:56Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > I call bullshit on this. I’ve been “wrong on the internet”, but I’ve never lied. How about showing some actual evidence for your assertion that everyone is “probably lying about something”? Or is this your “lie on the internet”… > [@](#): > > Why so much inaccuracy? One theory, formulated in the late 1980s and early 1990s by Sara Kiesler and her colleagues at Carnegie Mellon University, suggests that by its very nature “computer-mediated communication” is disinhibiting, causing people to say just about anything they feel like saying. Because people typically use screen names rather than real ones, their ramblings are anonymous and hence not subject to social norms. There are also no physical cues or consequences–no visible communication gestures, raised eyebrows, grimaces, and so on–to keep people’s behavior in check. As a result, online daters tend to construct what Ellison and her colleagues Jennifer Gibbs of Rutgers University and Rebecca Heino of Georgetown University call an “ideal self” rather than a real one. A study published recently by Ellison and her colleagues even suggests that online daters often regret it when they do tell the truth, feeling that too much honesty, especially about negative attributes, creates a bad impression. > **[The Truth about Online Dating](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-truth-about-online-da/)** > > The hype is huge, and the findings are somewhat disturbing—but the future of online dating looks good ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/279 "2011-10-11T06:25:32Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > This is utterly crazy, crazy stuff. I tried to be nice, I tried to find some excuses and to accept your total ignorance of what you were supposed to be talking about. I even gave you the link. :smack: > > The citation for what he said is right there. It’s on the MSNBC page. :smack: Here it is: [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11131562/#.TpPH3HI9160](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11131562/#.TpPH3HI9160) Are you going to come back now and say MSNBC is lying? :smack: > > Durrrr Durrrrr Durrrrr. :smack: > > I cannot talk with someone who persists and strives to be 100% ignorant and devoid of any knowledge on the subject even when I try to spoonfeed it as best I can, provide them with superb links and be as nice as possible about their clear misconceptions and undeniably false claims. > > It would make no sense, it would have no meaning to discuss anything further with you about this because your “opinions” are worse than worthless, they are a complete fantasy. > > Troppus, I have read your comments without feeling any real inclination to respond to them, besides it’s late here and I’m tired. You are out of line. Troppus asked for a complete transcript that demonstrated a specific point. You responded with an after the fact analysis that paraphrased some conversations while providing only partial quotes that do not make up an actual transcript. Dial back your emotional responses or just stay out of the thread, but talking trash about another poster because you insist that you have provided a reference that you have failed to provide is inappropriate. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/280 "2011-10-11T09:56:29Z")
> [@IAmError403](#): > > It’s like putting a Porsche with LoJack into a poor community. Knowing that some poor guy is going to take the bait. What is his real crime? Being poor. Sounds like a good idea to me. Don’t some police stations do just that? I remember reading about something like that a couple years ago, except they didn’t include the keys but left it unlocked with ipods, laptops, etc. visible on the seat. > [@IAmError403](#): > > I never said that they shouldn’t go to jail if they had sex with them. I am saying if they go there believing she was 18 and discovered she was not then they SHOULD NOT sleep with them. > > The whole point is these guys never slept with anyone. My argument is that everything is based on intent which is all speculative. All you need to do is claim that in no way did I ever think she was actually a minor because she acted like an adult who was role playing. IAmError, why don’t you have a seat over there? Just kidding. One of the guys did claim they were roleplaying…but that didn’t help him. Especially since the logs gave zero indication of that. I do agree it’s a _little_ off because when these guys arrive at the house they have that decoy girl who’s like 20. She’s supposed to look/sound young but talk about mixed signals. But when do you think the cops _should_ be able to arrest these guys? Do they think they should have real 12 year olds, see where things go maybe? I loved that show too. Watching all the creeps and freaks come out of the woodwork like moths to a flame, giving laughable excuses, getting tackled by the police…great stuff. The fact they were doing it for ratings and viewer titillation (Hanson loved reading those chat logs) was skeevy as hell, sure, but it was worth it. I do agree with your general point that these guys are sick in the head. They need actual help, not jail. But that could be said of many people we lock up. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/281 "2011-10-11T11:18:52Z")
**ModernPrimate** , maybe you don’t realize that _every PJ transcript_ is available for any TCAP segment you’ve seen. Just google “perverted justice” plus the arrested person’s name, and the transcript comes right up. In each case I’ve checked, it was clear that the arrestee was the initiator of every step in the process. ---
**Author:** ![Lunchy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Lunchy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lunchy)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/282 "2011-10-11T11:30:26Z")
Question. If I talk to someone I believe to be 18 and its about sex on a computer, can any action be taken against me? What if the 13 year old (decoy) is talking to a (Predator) and it actually ends up being an underage kid, are they liable? Im sure this has happened a lot at PJ! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862.md?page=15)