# How can some people go to jail for 2+ years for being on To Catch A Predator? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 7, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862 "2011-10-07T03:24:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/443 "2011-10-14T17:25:15Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Agreed on that one. If he says bye then that should be the end of the conversation. > > Is that the only one where there’s entrapment as a possibility? And even then it’s not the decoy bringing sex up first. Agreed, on the adult end. But ricks\_talented\_tongue is tireless, up to and including questions about the landscape of the 12 year old’s labia. Here is a link: [Perverted-Justice.com - The largest and best anti-predator organization online](http://www.perverted-justice.com/?archive=ricks_talented_tongue) I can’t understand why the sexual nature of the crime is the sticking point. Any citizen might be offered drugs by a stranger, a co-worker, or friend. Citizen could decline and walk away. Citizen could be offered stolen property from the back of a van at cut-rate prices/counterfeit goods/bootleg movies/peer-to-peer files etc, and could decline and stay out of trouble. All manner of illegal goodies are declined on the daily because either morals or the repercussions of the crime stop the average citizen from misbehaving. Since when is temptation an excuse for pursuing sexual contact with underage girls? Underage girls can be hot. See [Baby One More Time](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTyIlkNnwSs) , [Fly on the Wall](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RSlhNJFohI&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL50821CCA2B035555), [Aerosmith’s Rag Doll](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgRJ81hTFG0)(in which apparently older girls are dressed as sexy children) I assume most of us are familar with Toddlers and Tiaras; less said about that, the better. Girls (and boys) in the throes of puberty are appealing to look at, and the teenaged-brain is damn near poisoned with hormones that tend towards reckless thoughts and behavior. Luckily laws are in place to protect kids from themselves and horny adults who know better. Do. Not. Touch. What is so hard about this? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/444 "2011-10-14T17:58:47Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Sorry, I meant to provide the link. Here it is: [Perverted-Justice.com - The largest and best anti-predator organization online](http://www.perverted-justice.com/?archive=ricks_talented_tongue) > > I was asking about entrapment because it appears to be at least arguably a case in which the decoy presented the idea of comitting the crime first. “You don’t wanna???” is fairly clearly a rhetorical question meaning “You should do it!!!” > > The guy goes on in the transcript to completely fail to acquit himself well, but I was just wondering about this first bit, since if it’s entrapment, then the rest of the transcript is right out, isn’t it? There’s a additional nuance to entrapment. “Entrapment is the conception and planning of an offense by an officer, and his procurement of its commission by one who would not have perpetrated it except for the trickery, persuasion, or fraud of the officer.” Quoting Stamper v. Commonwealth, 228 Va. 707 (1985). The idea behind prohibiting entrapment is that to take someone who has no intent, idea, or desire to commit a crime, plant the idea of a crime in his mind, encourage himn to commit the crime, and then arrest him when he does is contrary to our notions of fair treatment and justice. However – when the individual is already predisposed to commit the crime, those concerns don’t apply. In this chat, it’s true that the decoy at least indirectly urges him to come over first. But notice that the same individual had previously chatted with two different PJ volunteers under two different teenage decoy personalities earlier. And notice this exchange: > [@](#): > > ricks\_talented\_tongue (09/08/06 6:33:42 PM): i am trying to walk out the door to come over and you keep messaging me silly. LOL > thisplacesux\_ihateit (09/08/06 6:33:47 PM): k > ricks\_talented\_tongue (09/08/06 6:34:49 PM): I can not add you because my security will not let me add someone who is under 18. In order for me to add you then you have to change your age in your profile > thisplacesux\_ihateit (09/08/06 6:35:12 PM): lol it says 102 8-| > ricks\_talented\_tongue (09/08/06 6:36:15 PM): you must not have a dult profile then, did you make it a adult profile? Because my system will not allow me to add you unless you have a adult profile > thisplacesux\_ihateit (09/08/06 6:36:24 PM): k dont add me then > ricks\_talented\_tongue (09/08/06 6:36:54 PM): I’ll be there in 30 mins. Kisses :-\* This shows a conscious effort to build a defense. He knows the age of his target but wants her to create an adult profile that will allow him to claim ignorance. These things, taken together, show that he was already predisposed to commit the crime, and thus the entrapment defense can’t be used. “If the criminal design originated in the mind of the defendant and the police did no more than ‘afford an opportunity for the commission of a crime’ by a willing participant, then no entrapment occurred.” McCoy v. Commonwealth, 385 SE 2d 628 (Va. Ct App 1989). ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/445 "2011-10-14T18:35:01Z")
Thank you **Bricker**. i was hoping you’d come comment on that. ---
**Author:** ![ModernPrimate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@ModernPrimate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ModernPrimate)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/446 "2011-10-14T18:54:43Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > I can’t understand why the sexual nature of the crime is the sticking point. Any citizen might be offered drugs by a stranger, a co-worker, or friend. Citizen could decline and walk away. Citizen could be offered stolen property from the back of a van at cut-rate prices/counterfeit goods/bootleg movies/peer-to-peer files etc, and could decline and stay out of trouble. All manner of illegal goodies are declined on the daily because either morals or the repercussions of the crime stop the average citizen from misbehaving. > > Since when is temptation an excuse for pursuing sexual contact with underage girls? Underage girls can be hot. See [Baby One More Time](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTyIlkNnwSs) , [Fly on the Wall](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RSlhNJFohI&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL50821CCA2B035555), [Aerosmith’s Rag Doll](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgRJ81hTFG0)(in which apparently older girls are dressed as sexy children) I assume most of us are familar with Toddlers and Tiaras; less said about that, the better. Girls (and boys) in the throes of puberty are appealing to look at, and the teenaged-brain is damn near poisoned with hormones that tend towards reckless thoughts and behavior. Luckily laws are in place to protect kids from themselves and horny adults who know better. > > Do. Not. Touch. > > What is so hard about this? What the heck are you talking about? Temptation is always used as an excuse for falling into sting attacks. That’s why police can’t go selling heroin on the streets to junkies and saying “gotcha!”. It’s only when sex is involved that people seem to suddenly forget about temptation. “Do. Not. Touch.” It’s not “hard to understand” at all. That’s like saying “What’s so hard for a fat person to understand, do not eat cake?”. durrrrr durrrrr durrrr. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/447 "2011-10-14T19:04:47Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > What the heck are you talking about? Temptation is always used as an excuse for falling into sting attacks. That’s why police can’t go selling heroin on the streets to junkies and saying “gotcha!”. It’s only when sex is involved that people seem to suddenly forget about temptation. > > “Do. Not. Touch.” > > It’s not “hard to understand” at all. That’s like saying “What’s so hard for a fat person to understand, do not eat cake?”. If a cop came up to me and said “Hey, you wanna buy some pot?”, I could see that as entrapment. Maybe. At least, it’s worthy of debate. But if I went up to an undercover cop and said “Hey, you got some pot to sell?”, it’s a clear cut case of NOT entrapment. As mentioned time and again, when reviewing the chat logs of the TCAP stuff, it’s clear that [nearly/unaminously all of] the suspects are the ones first suggesting the festivities. > [@](#): > > durrrrr durrrrr durrrr. On a personal note: I would like to respectfully request that you knock that off. It contributes nothing to the debate. You only piss people off, and that may induce them not to actually consider your arguments on their merits. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/448 "2011-10-14T19:09:27Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > What the heck are you talking about? Temptation is always used as an excuse for falling into sting attacks. That’s why police can’t go selling heroin on the streets to junkies and saying “gotcha!”. It’s only when sex is involved that people seem to suddenly forget about temptation. I cannot imagine how you could be unaware of the fact that yes, police can in fact sell heroin on the streets to junkies and then say gotcha. [Here’s an example:](http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1997-01-28/news/9701280121_1_drug-sales-drug-charges-sting) > [@](#): > > BOCA RATON — Using a reverse sting, police arrested five men on Friday and charged them with attempting to buy cocaine. > > The sting was in response to increased drug sales at Northeast 15th Terrace and North Dixie Highway, police said. [Here’s another:](http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_local_orlandocrime/category/osceola-county) > [@](#): > > Ten people were arrested on drug charges Friday during a reverse sting in Kissimmee, police said. > > The Kissimmee Police Department’s Tactical Investigative Unit acted as local drug dealers during the reverse drug sting in the McLaren Circle area. > > “This is part of the collaborated effort between the Kissimmee Police Department and the citizens of the North Kissimmee area to combat drug sales in the community,” Chief Frank Iwanski said in a press release issued Tuesday morning. “We will continue to work our citizens in eradicating drug sales from our neighborhoods.” [And a third:](http://articles.courant.com/2003-12-04/news/0312040012_1_undercover-officers-city-s-busiest-drug-corners-drug-dealers) > [@](#): > > Hartford police, conducting their third large-scale undercover crackdown on drug sales in the city in the last three weeks, arrested 53 people Tuesday by posing as drug dealers at one of the city’s busiest drug corners. > > The ``reverse sting’’ operation, in which undercover officers arrested people approaching them to buy drugs, took place Tuesday at the corner of Clark and Judson streets near the Nelton Court housing project in the North End, police said. In all, police have arrested more than 100 people in drug-related stings in the city in the last three weeks. Does the number of sweeping statements you have made in this thread that have turned out to be utterly wrong bother you in the slightest? It seems to me that whether you acknowledge each error or, not, it doesn’t seem to shake your confidence in anything you’re saying or doing. No matter how many completely wrong statements you make, you confidently charge forward in the discussion. Will there come some threshold at which you say to yourself, “Perhaps I don’t know as much about this subject as I thought?” ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/449 "2011-10-14T19:12:38Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > What the heck are you talking about? Temptation is always used as an excuse for falling into sting attacks. That’s why police can’t go selling heroin on the streets to junkies and saying “gotcha!”. It’s only when sex is involved that people seem to suddenly forget about temptation. > > “Do. Not. Touch.” > > It’s not “hard to understand” at all. That’s like saying “What’s so hard for a fat person to understand, do not eat cake?”. > > durrrrr durrrrr durrrr. Okay, let me rephrase it for you. Persons under the age of consent (or kids, as most of us refer to them) tend towards precocious, reckless behavior. If an adult is tempted by an appealing person under the age of consent, he or she is likely to face humiliating, life-altering consquences. Temptation is neither a legal or moral excuse for causing harm to a young person. “But judge… I really \*wanted \*her…” As for your paltry analogy: the consequences of too much cake are reversible and harm only the cake-eater. The consequences of statutory rape cause life-long anguish and harm to the predator and the kid, and the families of each. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/450 "2011-10-14T19:26:05Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > durrrrr durrrrr durrrr. I’m going to guess that you just didn’t get the message from your previous Warning, but posting this sort of schtick, implying that your opponent is mentally deficient, is not acceptable, either. Knock it off. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/451 "2011-10-14T19:27:36Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > What the heck are you talking about? Temptation is always used as an excuse for falling into sting attacks. That’s why police can’t go selling heroin on the streets to junkies and saying “gotcha!”. It’s only when sex is involved that people seem to suddenly forget about temptation. > > “Do. Not. Touch.” > > It’s not “hard to understand” at all. That’s like saying “What’s so hard for a fat person to understand, do not eat cake?”. > > durrrrr durrrrr durrrr. Setting aside the fact that “cake” is not the primary cause of obesity, yes, that is exactly what people say. Just as losing weight can be very very difficult, so (for some people) is not molesting kids. The difference is, one is against the law, and if you succumb to that temptation, you will go to jail. A better example might, in fact, be heroin. Just because someone is addicted doesn’t meant hey can use drugs without facing consequences. An, arguably, they have a much better defense; drug use affects only the user, and is actually a medical reality. In contrast, being horny doesn’t really compare at all. And, I hate to keep piling on with all the things you get wrong, but there is very little evidence that people who molest kids, especially adolescent or post-adolescent kids, have some sort of deep psychological problems. Many aren’t even true pedophiles or hebephiles; they are sociopaths who enjoy sex more when they are hurting or manipulating others. Assholes, in other words. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/452 "2011-10-14T19:30:32Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Many aren’t even true pedophiles or hebephiles; they are sociopaths who enjoy sex more when they are hurting or manipulating others. Assholes, in other words. Ahem. Ephebophiles. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/453 "2011-10-14T19:33:34Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Setting aside the fact that “cake” is not the primary cause of obesity, yes, that is > > And, I hate to keep piling on with all the things you get wrong, but there is very little evidence that people who molest kids, especially adolescent or post-adolescent kids, have some sort of deep psychological problems. Many aren’t even true pedophiles or hebephiles; they are sociopaths who enjoy sex more when they are hurting or manipulating others. Assholes, in other words. Yeah, this. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/454 "2011-10-14T19:42:46Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Agreed, on the adult end. But ricks\_talented\_tongue is tireless, up to and including questions about the landscape of the 12 year old’s labia. Here is a link: [Perverted-Justice.com - The largest and best anti-predator organization online](http://www.perverted-justice.com/?archive=ricks_talented_tongue) > > I can’t understand why the sexual nature of the crime is the sticking point. Any citizen might be offered drugs by a stranger, a co-worker, or friend. Citizen could decline and walk away. Citizen could be offered stolen property from the back of a van at cut-rate prices/counterfeit goods/bootleg movies/peer-to-peer files etc, and could decline and stay out of trouble. All manner of illegal goodies are declined on the daily because either morals or the repercussions of the crime stop the average citizen from misbehaving. > > Since when is temptation an excuse for pursuing sexual contact with underage girls? Underage girls can be hot. See [Baby One More Time](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTyIlkNnwSs) , [Fly on the Wall](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RSlhNJFohI&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL50821CCA2B035555), [Aerosmith’s Rag Doll](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgRJ81hTFG0)(in which apparently older girls are dressed as sexy children) I assume most of us are familar with Toddlers and Tiaras; less said about that, the better. Girls (and boys) in the throes of puberty are appealing to look at, and the teenaged-brain is damn near poisoned with hormones that tend towards reckless thoughts and behavior. Luckily laws are in place to protect kids from themselves and horny adults who know better. > > Do. Not. Touch. > > What is so hard about this? Well, given that (the link), that means there still isn’t a single example of anyone who was a victim of entrapment. The sexual nature of the crime isn’t the sticking point - it’s that these people go _looking_ for underage girls. The analogy to being offered drugs is flawed, because these men are not being offered illegal sex, they’re requesting it. It’s like someone going to a site that might tell them where to get drugs, asking (repeatedly) where to get drugs, then driving to buy them, entering the house of the dealer and asking for drugs, but still claiming entrapment because the dealer never said no. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/455 "2011-10-14T19:43:41Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Well, given that (the link), that means there still isn’t a single example of anyone who was a victim of entrapment. > > The sexual nature of the crime isn’t the sticking point - it’s that these people go _looking_ for underage girls. The analogy to being offered drugs is flawed, because these men are not being offered illegal sex, they’re requesting it. > > It’s like someone going to a site that might tell them where to get drugs, asking (repeatedly) where to get drugs, then driving to buy them, entering the house of the dealer and asking for drugs, but still claiming entrapment because the dealer never said no. Arguing with the wrong person; I never claimed that any of these men were entrapped. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/456 "2011-10-14T19:48:25Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > Ahem. Ephebophiles. Since we are talking about victims whose ages are between 12 and 14, my term is correct. ETA: [Hebephilia - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebephilia) [Ephebophilia - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia) ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/457 "2011-10-14T19:52:05Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > It’s not “hard to understand” at all. That’s like saying “What’s so hard for a fat person to understand, do not eat cake?”. Notably, there is no potential for permanently damaging a cake’s psyche by eating it, as it is a cake and not a human being. “What’s so hard for a pickpocket to understand, do not steal wallets?” ---
**Author:** ![ModernPrimate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@ModernPrimate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ModernPrimate)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/458 "2011-10-14T19:53:35Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > If a cop came up to me and said “Hey, you wanna buy some pot?”, I could see that as entrapment. Maybe. At least, it’s worthy of debate. > > But if I went up to an undercover cop and said “Hey, you got some pot to sell?”, it’s a clear cut case of NOT entrapment. > > As mentioned time and again, when reviewing the chat logs of the TCAP stuff, it’s clear that [nearly/unaminously all of] the suspects are the ones first suggesting the festivities. > > On a personal note: I would like to respectfully request that you knock that off. It contributes nothing to the debate. You only piss people off, and that may induce them not to actually consider your arguments on their merits. However the girls put themselves on display. I think it would be more like if a cop went around displaying cocaine and showing it as up for grabs. > [@Bricker](#): > > I cannot imagine how you could be unaware of the fact that yes, police can in fact sell heroin on the streets to junkies and then say gotcha. > > [Here’s an example:](http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1997-01-28/news/9701280121_1_drug-sales-drug-charges-sting) > > [Here’s another:](http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_local_orlandocrime/category/osceola-county) > > [And a third:](http://articles.courant.com/2003-12-04/news/0312040012_1_undercover-officers-city-s-busiest-drug-corners-drug-dealers) > > Does the number of sweeping statements you have made in this thread that have turned out to be utterly wrong bother you in the slightest? It seems to me that whether you acknowledge each error or, not, it doesn’t seem to shake your confidence in anything you’re saying or doing. No matter how many completely wrong statements you make, you confidently charge forward in the discussion. > > Will there come some threshold at which you say to yourself, “Perhaps I don’t know as much about this subject as I thought?” Hmmm… yet again the US totally amazes me with the contempt it treats its own citizens. Why don’t they go hanging around rehab centres offering the person’s poison? The people there can’t call the cops because hey, they are the cops. The cops in the US are way out of control. They are not what you’d expect in a first world country that alleges that its regime is better than so many foreign ones. > [@Troppus](#): > > Okay, let me rephrase it for you. Persons under the age of consent (or kids, as most of us refer to them) tend towards precocious, reckless behavior. If an adult is tempted by an appealing person under the age of consent, he or she is likely to face humiliating, life-altering consquences. Temptation is neither a legal or moral excuse for causing harm to a young person. “But judge… I really \*wanted \*her…” I think it is an excuse. People can’t help their biology. It’s at least as much a mitigating factor as many of the ones given up for murder. > [@Troppus](#): > > As for your paltry analogy: the consequences of too much cake are reversible and harm only the cake-eater. The consequences of statutory rape cause life-long anguish and harm to the predator and the kid, and the families of each. The cake example was simply used as an example of the folly of considering that everyone is in completely control of themselves at all times. Also, on an unrelated note, I would take issue with the claim that the consequences of too much cake are completely reversible. That cake that day could be the final nail in the coffin giving you diabetes, which you may have avoided from then on after a big change in your lifestyle. Excessive cake can also cause irreversible insulin resistance. > [@tomndebb](#): > > I’m going to guess that you just didn’t get the message from your previous Warning, but posting this sort of schtick, implying that your opponent is mentally deficient, is not acceptable, either. > > Knock it off. > > [/Moderating] I didn’t say that. durrrr just means I think it’s obvious, though I guess an impolite way of saying it. > [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Setting aside the fact that “cake” is not the primary cause of obesity, yes, that is exactly what people say. Just as losing weight can be very very difficult, so (for some people) is not molesting kids. The difference is, one is against the law, and if you succumb to that temptation, you will go to jail. > > A better example might, in fact, be heroin. Just because someone is addicted doesn’t meant hey can use drugs without facing consequences. An, arguably, they have a much better defense; drug use affects only the user, and is actually a medical reality. In contrast, being horny doesn’t really compare at all. > > And, I hate to keep piling on with all the things you get wrong, but there is very little evidence that people who molest kids, especially adolescent or post-adolescent kids, have some sort of deep psychological problems. Many aren’t even true pedophiles or hebephiles; they are sociopaths who enjoy sex more when they are hurting or manipulating others. Assholes, in other words. Again, the cake analogy was an example of how we aren’t always in control even if we desperately want to be. He said “What is so hard to understand? Do. Not. Touch”, and I was using this as an example of how it’s not always so easy to do what you’re told, or even what you really, really want to yourself. Males do get very strong urges sometimes. These men would almost all have certainly have gone to a woman aged 25+ if she kept asking them over etc. as well. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/459 "2011-10-14T19:55:06Z")
Can we get a better understanding of entrapment?\*\* Bricker\*\*? > **[entrapment](http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/entrapment)** > > Definition of entrapment in the Legal Dictionary by The Free Dictionary > [@](#): > > The act of government agents or officials that induces a person to commit a crime he or she is not previously disposed to commit. > [@](#): > > The rationale underlying the defense is to deter law enforcement officers from engaging in reprehensible conduct by inducing persons not disposed to commit crimes to engage in criminal activity. In their efforts to obtain evidence and combat crime, however, officers are permitted to use some deception. For example, an officer may pretend to be a drug addict in order to apprehend a person suspected of selling drugs. On the other hand, an officer cannot use chicanery or Fraud to lure a person to commit a crime the person is not previously willing to commit. **Generally, the defense is not available if the officer merely created an opportunity for the commission of the crime by a person already planning or willing to commit it**. This seems pretty clear. Is there a better practical standard? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/460 "2011-10-14T19:59:00Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > Hmmm… yet again the US totally amazes me with the contempt it treats its own citizens. > > Why don’t they go hanging around rehab centres offering the person’s poison? The people there can’t call the cops because hey, they are the cops. The cops in the US are way out of control. They are not what you’d expect in a first world country that alleges that its regime is better than so many foreign ones. Well, I certainly don’t know much about the local laws in other countries, so perhaps you can educate me. What countries are you picturing where the reverse sting I described would not be legally permissible? And once again I note you don’t explicitly acknowledge you were in error, instead deflecting the blame from you to the “out of control” United States police. Do you in fact understand that it’s perfectly legal, and not entrapment, for police in the United States to instigate reverse stings, and that these rules are made by legislatures and approved by the courts, not the police? ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/461 "2011-10-14T19:59:14Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Arguing with the wrong person; I never claimed that any of these men were entrapped. No - you said temptation was put in their way and they should have been able to resist, which I agree with. Thing is, temptation wasn’t even put in their way - it was worse than that. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/462 "2011-10-14T20:00:05Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > Males do get very strong urges sometimes. These men would almost all have certainly have gone to a woman aged 25+ if she kept asking them over etc. as well. Firstly, you have no way of knowing that, and in fact the evidence points quite strongly in the other direction. And, it has been established, **repeatedly!** , that the decoys do not, in fact, keep asking them over. Secondly, I am continually amazed that you think _I’m_ the misandrist here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862.md?page=24)