# How can some people go to jail for 2+ years for being on To Catch A Predator? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 7, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862 "2011-10-07T03:24:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/503 "2011-10-14T23:03:35Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > omg… I only created a topic. I didn’t mean to spend the rest of my life answering this stuff, much of it repeating itself. I will come back tomorrow and answer the replies. The workload is just too high. Translation: I’ve had every assertion I made proven false so rather than admit I was wrong and have been expressing strong opinions about a subject I know little about I’m going to pretend that I’m being picked on and run away. Also, your claim that “the workload is just too high” is laughable considering that you demanded Bricker and other provide eight separate chat cites of the predators bringing up sex and going over to the house of the decoys first. > [@](#): > > No. I asked if someone else who viewed the shows would confirm it, and if not then I would find the links. Ok, I watched several episodes and never once saw the decoys “beg” the men to come over. Now, please provide the links. Also, please provide links proving that the decoys posted “sexy pictures” of themselves on their yahoo profiles. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/504 "2011-10-14T23:18:35Z")
Okay, I’m not going to address the stuff by **ModernPrimate**. I had other stuff to say, and I’ve spent long enough reading through this stuff (to make sure it wasn’t already posted) to hold back on what I had planned on posting. > [@Toucanna](#): > > As for the “public humiliation” factor, if those arrested do not think they have done anything wrong, then why do they act as though they are ashamed of their actions? Further, why should they be ashamed? If they believe strongly that they are innocent of the charges and/or that the laws are draconian, they should fight them, and do so very publicly. We’ve seen many total nut-jobs successfully pushing wacky or sick agendas into the public eye merely by being tirelessly vociferous about them. Obviously these guys are the scum of the earth, and I especially hate them because I love working with children and hate that people now think that is skeevy. But I don’t think this follows. Whether they find it bad or not, they know that being on TV means that other people they know will see them. They aren’t necessarily ashamed of their actions, but ashamed that they got caught. > [@Zeriel](#): > > That said, I don’t see what’s so hard about recognizing you have a problem and getting treatment for it, BEFORE you cross the line into hurting someone. Even in the throes of a serious problem, I knew there was a major difference between “yelling and throwing things” and “throwing things AT PEOPLE”, and my approach to that line scared me into therapy. As you probably experienced as well, you know that they will tell you that, even under HIPAA, they will tell on you if you say anything that makes them think you might be child molester (or otherwise guilty of a crime). Just like they’ll tell on you if you admit to suicidal feelings. I know I was not about to tell them about the latter, so I could see pedophiles not telling them about the former. With mandated reporting, it’s really hard to trust the very people that can help you. That is the one thing I would like changed. * * * Finally, a question: did anybody on the show ever wise up to the tactics? I’m talking getting them to admit to the chatlogs. Or even just recognizing the decoy and making a break for it? It seems like they preyed the stupidity of the offenders. I wonder if putting it on public television would clue these guys in. It always seemed not the best of ideas to me. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/505 "2011-10-15T00:41:23Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Finally, a question: did anybody on the show ever wise up to the tactics? I’m talking getting them to admit to the chatlogs. Or even just recognizing the decoy and making a break for it? It seems like they preyed the stupidity of the offenders. I wonder if putting it on public television would clue these guys in. It always seemed not the best of ideas to me. Yes - the show complained that the potential predators were getting wary. This is a good thing, really - means they’re less likely to try and meet and abuse genuine young girls. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/506 "2011-10-15T00:50:15Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > You need hard, real, tangible evidence. I mean some of these guys are being put away for 7 years, you need something damn concrete and not wikipedia-esque. The more I think about it, the more ridiculous it sounds. > [@ModernPrimate](#): > > I didn’t make assertions about whether or not TCAP could be carried out in the UK. I made assertions about how so many stings allowed in the US wouldn’t be allowed in UK or most of the world. The irony, it burns. How about any sort of support for your claim that sting operations are forbidden in “most” (or even any) countries outside the U.S.? For someone who is so determined to demand evidence from others, your ability to shuck and jive and avoid providing your own is remarkable. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/507 "2011-10-15T01:01:40Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > omg… I only created a topic. I didn’t mean to spend the rest of my life answering this stuff, much of it repeating itself. The only “repeating” that I see is the stuff with your userid on it, repeating assertions without supporting them with evidence. > [@ModernPrimate](#): > > I regret to say I am also done with reading transcripts or anything to do with TCAP except from possibly watching new episodes on the show at night. If I read one more thing about a 40 year old man fantasizing about stuffing his thing down a virgin 14 year old girl’s wet pussy and throat and licking her all over, cuddling her tits and caressing and rubbing his thing all over her warm nude wet body all night long when her parents are away I think I’ll barf. Really? Then why do you need to explain that in graphic detail? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/508 "2011-10-15T02:07:23Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > As you probably experienced as well, you know that they will tell you that, even under HIPAA, they will tell on you if you say anything that makes them think you might be child molester (or otherwise guilty of a crime). Just like they’ll tell on you if you admit to suicidal feelings. I know I was not about to tell them about the latter, so I could see pedophiles not telling them about the former. > > With mandated reporting, it’s really hard to trust the very people that can help you. That is the one thing I would like changed. Hmm. When under depression treatment, there wasn’t any problem with admitting I thought I was a crisis suicide case. At least in the late 1990s in PA, there wasn’t a problem with that. Also, a note about mandated reporting, I am not sure you understand it. Again, in my state, mandated reporting ONLY applies if the care provider has reason to suspect that you’ve ACTUALLY committed a crime. If you say “I am worried I might eventually commit a crime” that doesn’t trigger mandated reporting as I understand it. ---
**Author:** ![ModernPrimate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@ModernPrimate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ModernPrimate)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/509 "2011-10-15T02:41:06Z")
Okay, watch this, starting at 6:00 (which should come up when you click the link): [_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni-CgnUarKU&feature=player\_detailpage#t=362s_](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni-CgnUarKU&feature=player_detailpage#t=362s) Next time, remember that ModernPrimate is an honest and reliable poster and would not just make something like that up. I am not claiming that it is always like this, or this is a common thing to happen, but I am just pointing out that it happens. In fact honestly this is probably the worst one I’ve seen, but as CH states they do go on cam and I’ve provided another phone conversation also… they do go on cam, phone, have user profiles, all as I said. Here’s a tip: IF YOU’RE GOING TO TALK AND PASSIONATELY ARGUE ABOUT A SHOW, ACTUALLY WATCH IT. There are not that many episodes, I’m beginning to wonder if I’ve already seen every one. As I also said, the girl doesn’t consider that she is doing anything questionable, her objective is to get him to come over. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/510 "2011-10-15T02:56:08Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > I am not claiming that it is always like this, or this is a common thing to happen Uh… > [@ModernPrimate](#): > > Every show there are specific examples. You can often see the girl on the phone saying: “hey come on, let’s do it, I’m lonely, can you please come over?”. You know if she says online: “come over please just to chat with me”, then that’s not explicit but that’s showing that she just wants him over anyway. ---
**Author:** ![ModernPrimate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@ModernPrimate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ModernPrimate)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/511 "2011-10-15T02:59:10Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Uh… I don’t see the contradiction. I meant the begging on that level. Or maybe it’s just because that girl is so pretty, I dunno… but as far as I can see there’s no contradiction, they are both perfectly valid and true. And every show =/= every guy. Also we’re getting the hour long Predator Raw shows which have 6 or 7 guys in them. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/512 "2011-10-15T03:11:01Z")
In the first quote, you said you weren’t claiming it’s common. In the quote from earlier in the thread, you said it happens often, and I think that throughout this thread you’ve said and implied that the “entrapment” happens a lot. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/513 "2011-10-15T04:13:05Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > Okay, watch this, starting at 6:00 (which should come up when you click the link): > > [_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni-CgnUarKU&feature=player\_detailpage#t=362s_](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni-CgnUarKU&feature=player_detailpage#t=362s) > > Next time, remember that ModernPrimate is an honest and reliable poster and would not just make something like that up. > > I am not claiming that it is always like this, or this is a common thing to happen, but I am just pointing out that it happens. In fact honestly this is probably the worst one I’ve seen, but as CH states they do go on cam and I’ve provided another phone conversation also… they do go on cam, phone, have user profiles, all as I said. Here’s a tip: IF YOU’RE GOING TO TALK AND PASSIONATELY ARGUE ABOUT A SHOW, ACTUALLY WATCH IT. There are not that many episodes, I’m beginning to wonder if I’ve already seen every one. As I also said, the girl doesn’t consider that she is doing anything questionable, her objective is to get him to come over. I don’t think that you actually watched that episode. Your link starts with a commercial break teaser, out of sequence with regard to the events, in which the actress is talking about whether the perp will come over, during which conversation she says that she is bored and wants to see him, HOWEVER, the sequence of that phone conversation follows a lengthy chat in which he removes clothing, asks her to remove clothing, comments on her appearance, and says he wants to lick her and otherwise engage in behavior that is wholly inappropriate between any adult and a teen. That at some point well into their exchanges, when he has already stated a desire to go to her house and engage in sexual activity with her, she echoes back an interest in seeing him in order to maintain her role in the exchange does not equate to her luring him to her house. It just does not. And it is completely in error that she initiated that part of the conversation. Your (mis)interpretation of the video to which you linked still fails to make your case. I will grant that you believe that you are an honest poster. There is no way that you can be considered a reliable poster. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/514 "2011-10-15T04:18:52Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > Okay, watch this, starting at 6:00 (which should come up when you click the link): > > [_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni-CgnUarKU&feature=player\_detailpage#t=362s_](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni-CgnUarKU&feature=player_detailpage#t=362s) So, this video is your evidence that the decoys repeatedly call the targets and beg them to come over? Because the decoy actress is shown answering a call _from_ the target, which is also how the narrator describes the situation. It’s also just one phone call. I guess I can see how someone who wasn’t paying much attention might get the impression of multiple phone calls from this video though, as the same clip of the actress on the phone is shown multiple times and the actress is also shown describing the same conversation to the camera. While the actress pretends she is eager to see the target, I wouldn’t characterize saying “I’d really like to see you” and “I was really looking forward to it, that’s not fair, I’m so bored here” as begging or entrapment – especially since she specifically says she wants to see the target because she’s bored, not because she wants to have sex with him. I note that the Yahoo! profile for the decoy is visible during part of the video, and the profile picture is not “really sexy” as you claimed before. It is a standard Yahoo! cartoon avatar that is wearing a modest outfit, looks like jeans and a white long-sleeved shirt. > [@](#): > > Next time, remember that ModernPrimate is an honest and reliable poster and would not just make something like that up. First, that is not the way this forum works. You can’t just assert things and expect people to believe you because you’re such a swell guy. Second, I think maybe we should remember the _unreliable_ claims you made about the chat logs. The ones you could not support with examples, but that you challenged others to disprove by finding eight logs where the decoy was not the first to bring up sex. **Bricker** did so, which you barely acknowledged before switching your focus to the phone conversations. Thinking of that, have you come up with eight examples in support of your claims about the phone conversations? Have you even come up with three, which **Bricker** said would be sufficient to convince him there was a serious problem? No. You’ve offered only two examples, and the one linked above – which you describe as > [@](#): > > In fact honestly this is probably the worst one I’ve seen – still doesn’t live up to the claims you’ve been making. > [@](#): > > I am not claiming that it is always like this, or this is a common thing to happen, but I am just pointing out that it happens. That’s actually exactly what you’ve been claiming. In addition to the quote already provided by **Marley23** , please see the following. (The bolded emphasis is mine in all quotes below.) > [@ModernPrimate](#): > > Alternatively maybe someone else can confirm that it’s the decoy that **very often** really tries to persuade them to come over? > [@ModernPrimate](#): > > No, no, no. **The decoys DO keep asking them over on the phone. Anyone that has watched the show regularly can attest to that.** What we established was that the decoys don’t bring up sex first. **They do openly beg them to come over on the phone and actively phone their phones multiple times.** If they didn’t do that, I mightn’t be here arguing this at all. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/515 "2011-10-15T04:30:10Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I never felt sorry for the paedophiles. Not pedophiles. Not even paedophiles. Ephebophiles (14-19 year olds). Hebephiles (Pubescent, generally 12-15). Not pedophiles, who prefer pre-pubescent children. The difference matters. The majority of male human beings on earth can and do feel very strong sexual attraction to females from the moment they are sexually mature, whether that is 13 or 19, there is nothing remotely sick or unnatural about it. In fact it is the ultimate in natural responses. Civilization has generally decided that acting on this is a bad idea, however, so men are required to avoid acting on these natural desires or face the consequences. I just like to keep these conversations accurate and honest. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![ModernPrimate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@ModernPrimate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ModernPrimate)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/516 "2011-10-15T06:14:24Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I don’t think that you actually watched that episode. How would I have linked to it if I hadn’t seen it? I don’t believe your remark is made in good faith and is genuine. I don’t think we can have a meaningful discussion if we doubt each other like this, don’t talk to me again. I think maybe you need to assess your future position as mod on this forum if you’re going to make comments like this. You’re impressing noone with your “smart” and yet obviously false comment. > [@Lamia](#): > > So, this video is your evidence that the decoys repeatedly call the targets and beg them to come over? Because the decoy actress is shown answering a call _from_ the target, which is also how the narrator describes the situation. It’s also just one phone call. This is evidence that it happens, it was up for question. One example with them showing that they do go on webcam and set up profiles etc. shows that it happens. Okay, yes it’s from the target this time, however that is not always the case as was shown before. > [@Lamia](#): > > I guess I can see how someone who wasn’t paying much attention might get the impression of multiple phone calls from this video though, as the same clip of the actress on the phone is shown multiple times and the actress is also shown describing the same conversation to the camera. While the actress pretends she is eager to see the target, I wouldn’t characterize saying “I’d really like to see you” and “I was really looking forward to it, that’s not fair, I’m so bored here” as begging or entrapment – especially since she specifically says she wants to see the target because she’s bored, not because she wants to have sex with him. It is the way she says it also, the moaning sounds. I mean “beg” as in tried their best to persuade them. In a casual sense as it’s used very often, not in the begging for your life sense. How many times do they do this? We don’t know, this is just evidence that such things happen. TCAP is controlling the release of all of these. > [@Lamia](#): > > I note that the Yahoo! profile for the decoy is visible during part of the video, and the profile picture is not “really sexy” as you claimed before. It is a standard Yahoo! cartoon avatar that is wearing a modest outfit, looks like jeans and a white long-sleeved shirt. lol. But even in the transcripts to the chats on perverted-justice you can see them saying “you look really cute”, etc. That is their real picture. There is no doubt that they see their pictures. Here is a random example from the main page, the first one I clicked on: [http://perverted-justice.com/?archive=smileman74](http://perverted-justice.com/?archive=smileman74) > [@Lamia](#): > > First, that is not the way this forum works. You can’t just assert things and expect people to believe you because you’re such a swell guy. Fine. However some things just wouldn’t be made up for any purpose, people were insinuating I was completely inventing stuff. > [@Lamia](#): > > Second, I think maybe we should remember the _unreliable_ claims you made about the chat logs. The ones you could not support with examples, but that you challenged others to disprove by finding eight logs where the decoy was not the first to bring up sex. **Bricker** did so, which you barely acknowledged before switching your focus to the phone conversations. I did acknowledge it. You’re still harping back to this one example? Considering that it was on the MSNBC page by the show anchor himself, I did have what I still believe was very good reason to think that it’s not the policy of the decoys to always bring sex up first. I’m still not sure on whether there was a time when they did, which is what led him to say that. But granted, I went back on what I said. > [@Lamia](#): > > Thinking of that, have you come up with eight examples in support of your claims about the phone conversations? Have you even come up with three, which **Bricker** said would be sufficient to convince him there was a serious problem? No. You’ve offered only two examples, and the one linked above – which you describe as – still doesn’t live up to the claims you’ve been making. Not really. > [@Lamia](#): > > That’s actually exactly what you’ve been claiming. In addition to the quote already provided by **Marley23** , please see the following. (The bolded emphasis is mine in all quotes below.) No… They’re two different things. I said **for this specific video I am not claiming** : \*“I am not claiming that it is always like this, or this is a common thing to happen, but I am just pointing out that it happens.” \* \*\*Not claiming something does not mean I am claiming the opposite. \*\* The thing is at the time I said it, I felt that usually you don’t see them begging like she does. So I would not be able to find better examples than this in future. However what I was saying is common in the other quotes is them calling up and asking them to come over. Sometimes they do beg in other phone calls. But then maybe they didn’t have the whole webcam-thing also. Granted she didn’t call him, though asked him to call her. Granted other decoys try and insist on them coming over on the phone also. But okay I would slightly revise that statement about how I wouldn’t claim that it’s always as much entrapment as this. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/517 "2011-10-15T06:41:52Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > It is the way she says it also, the moaning sounds. I mean “beg” as in tried their best to persuade them. Huh? There were no “moaning sounds” in that clip and if you think that the girl’s behavior constituted “begging” then you either have completely misremembered what happened in the clip or you don’t know what the word “begging” means. > [@](#): > > lol. But even in the transcripts to the chats on perverted-justice you can see them saying “you look really cute”, etc. That is their real picture. There is no doubt that they see their pictures. Here is a random example from the main page, the first one I clicked on: [Perverted-Justice.com - The largest and best anti-predator organization online](http://perverted-justice.com/?archive=smileman74) You have yet to produce any evidence that the girls put up “sexy pictures” of themselves on their yahoo profiles. All the reports have said that the girls dressed in normal clothing and from the pictures we saw, only a pedophile would consider the photos “sexy”. Please either present evidence that the girls put up “sexy photos” of themselves online(the word of pedophiles don’t count), or retract your statement and admit you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/518 "2011-10-15T11:05:46Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > How would I have linked to it if I hadn’t seen it? I don’t believe your remark is made in good faith and is genuine. I did not say you had not seen it, (_i.e.,_ had the vision impinge on your eyeballs), I said it did not appear that you had watched it, (_i.e._, actually noted what happened in the images reaching your eyes). Your desription of the video does not accurately describe what happened in the video, as if you had seen a couple of images, made up your mind that they supported your view, and then ignored that actual content of the video. > [@ModernPrimate](#): > > I don’t think we can have a meaningful discussion if we doubt each other like this, don’t talk to me again. Sorry. This forum does not work that way. If you spew nonsense on this site, any other poster who recognizes it as nonsense has a right to challenge it. If you want to exclude me from a conversation, you need to go post on a site where I do not post. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/519 "2011-10-15T16:06:19Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > This is evidence that it happens, it was up for question. One example with them showing that they do go on webcam and set up profiles etc. shows that it happens. Okay, yes it’s from the target this time, however that is not always the case as was shown before. Maybe I skimmed over something, but I didn’t see anyone here denying that the decoys sometimes went on webcam or set up Yahoo! profiles. What was in question was whether the decoys repeatedly called the targets and begged them to come over, and the video you linked to does not show this happening. > [@](#): > > It is the way she says it also, the moaning sounds. She says it like a whiny adolescent girl. There were no moaning sounds. > [@](#): > > But even in the transcripts to the chats on perverted-justice you can see them saying “you look really cute”, etc. That is their real picture. There is no doubt that they see their pictures. You said these were _sexy_ pictures, not just that there were pictures. > [@](#): > > Here is a random example from the main page, the first one I clicked on: [Perverted-Justice.com - The largest and best anti-predator organization online](http://perverted-justice.com/?archive=smileman74) That’s a very long transcript, and you haven’t said what we’re supposed to be looking for. Going from just the beginning, the target says he’s seen the decoy’s profile picture but I see nothing to indicate that she’s dressed or posed in a provocative manner. The target seems like someone who could be turned on by a perfectly innocent photo of an adolescent girl, as he almost immediately volunteers the information that he likes young girls and would “date” a girl as young as 10 years old. His question about the decoy’s age seems to be intended to confirm that she’s as young as she says she is. > [@](#): > > Fine. However some things just wouldn’t be made up for any purpose, people were insinuating I was completely inventing stuff. I really couldn’t guess what your purposes might be, but you have posted things that are factually incorrect and you have made a lot of claims that you’ve been unable to back up. > [@](#): > > You’re still harping back to this one example? You claimed, in quite large letters, to be “an honest and reliable poster”. Yet you have repeatedly (not just once) said things that are not true or that you could not support with evidence. This isn’t ancient history, it’s something that you have done and are continuing to do in this very thread. > [@](#): > > However what I was saying is common in the other quotes is them calling up and asking them to come over. Yes, and you still haven’t provided evidence for this claim. > [@](#): > > Granted she didn’t call him, though asked him to call her. In other words, the video does not support your repeated claim that the decoys call the targets, much less that they do so multiple times. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/520 "2011-10-15T16:22:14Z")
> [@ModernPrimate](#): > > I think maybe you need to assess your future position as mod on this forum if you’re going to make comments like this. You’re impressing noone with your “smart” and yet obviously false comment. \*\*tomndeb \*\*will be a mod long after you’ve been banned. > [@](#): > > This is evidence that it happens, it was up for question. One example with them showing that they do go on webcam and set up profiles etc. shows that it happens. Okay, yes it’s from the target this time, however that is not always the case as was shown before. No one who’s read the transcripts would doubt they have webcams and pictures; that was never in dispute. The pictures aren’t sexy though, and nothing sexy happens on the cams (unless the guys do it). And if it’s from the target, it completely negates what you are claiming. > [@](#): > > It is the way she says it also, the moaning sounds. I mean “beg” as in tried their best to persuade them. In a casual sense as it’s used very often, not in the begging for your life sense. How many times do they do this? We don’t know, this is just evidence that such things happen. TCAP is controlling the release of all of these. “Moaning sounds”?! What the hell! There are no “moaning sounds”, and she doesn’t beg. This is evidence of _nothing_. Absolutely nothing. Nothing that happens in that clip is entrapment, and nothing that happens is remotely offensive (at least from the decoy). If this is the best evidence you have, you have no evidence. > [@](#): > > lol. But even in the transcripts to the chats on perverted-justice you can see them saying “you look really cute”, etc. That is their real picture. There is no doubt that they see their pictures. Here is a random example from the main page, the first one I clicked on: [http://perverted-justice.com/?archive=smileman74](http://perverted-justice.com/?archive=smileman74) Where has anyone said they don’t have pictures? What was in dispute was whether the pictures were sexy, and they aren’t. Once again (surprise surprise) you have no evidence to back up your claims. > [@](#): > > Fine. However some things just wouldn’t be made up for any purpose, people were insinuating I was completely inventing stuff. You _are_ completely inventing stuff! I don’t whether you know it or not (I’m leaning towards the latter, at this point), but you’ve completely invented almost every claim you’ve made, and you have no evidence whatsoever. Oh, wait, no; there was one case that got tossed out. Which actually proves the system works. > [@](#): > > I did acknowledge it. You’re still harping back to this one example? Considering that it was on the MSNBC page by the show anchor himself, I did have what I still believe was very good reason to think that it’s not the policy of the decoys to always bring sex up first. I’m still not sure on whether there was a time when they did, which is what led him to say that. But granted, I went back on what I said. You acknowledge it, but then a page later, you go right back to claiming it. > [@](#): > > The thing is at the time I said it, I felt that usually you don’t see them begging like she does. So I would not be able to find better examples than this in future. > > However what I was saying is common in the other quotes is them calling up and asking them to come over. Sometimes they do beg in other phone calls. But then maybe they didn’t have the whole webcam-thing also. Again, if this is your best example, _you have no examples_. > [@](#): > > Granted she didn’t call him, though asked him to call her. Granted other decoys try and insist on them coming over on the phone also. But okay I would slightly revise that statement about how I wouldn’t claim that it’s always as much entrapment as this. There isn’t any entrapment. Entrapment is a legal term, and this doesn’t (even begin to) fit the definition. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/521 "2011-10-15T18:36:39Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Not pedophiles. Not even paedophiles. Ephebophiles (14-19 year olds). Hebephiles (Pubescent, generally 12-15). Not pedophiles, who prefer pre-pubescent children. > > The difference matters. The majority of male human beings on earth can and do feel very strong sexual attraction to females from the moment they are sexually mature, whether that is 13 or 19, there is nothing remotely sick or unnatural about it. In fact it is the ultimate in natural responses. > > Civilization has generally decided that acting on this is a bad idea, however, so men are required to avoid acting on these natural desires or face the consequences. > > I just like to keep these conversations accurate and honest. Carry on. I know, and agree, but decided to use the word that everyone would understand. If I’d known the thread would be this big, I’d have been more specific. Modernprimate, you are seeing and hearing things in those videos that simply aren’t there. I’m not insinuating that you’re inventing things - I’m saying it outright, because you are. You’re not lying, because you clearly believe what you’re saying, but what you are claiming happened _did not happen_. ---
**Author:** ![chartreuse\_w\_envy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@chartreuse\_w\_envy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chartreuse_w_envy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862/522 "2011-10-17T13:58:02Z")
I do not feel sorry for these people at all. An estimated 20% of online pornography is of children/minors, and as a mother, that is extremely disturbing. Even the District Attorney that killed himself had a laptop, a cell phone and disks of child pornography; thats enough, in my opinion, to be sentenced. And, a lot of predators lure teens, then rape them/kill them, etc. They shouldn’t be trying to hang out with them to begin with. people have will power; Even if these men are attracted to younger girls, refraining on acting on their desires is possible, and anybody that can’t control themselves, shouldn’t be in the general public, just as anybody that can’t refrain from killing their boss, or parents when they piss them off shouldn’t be in the general population; its common sense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-some-people-go-to-jail-for-2-years-for-being-on-to-catch-a-predator/598862.md?page=27)