# How can the SDMB fight ignorance with Ad hominems **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 9, 2002, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-sdmb-fight-ignorance-with-ad-hominems/108174 "2002-05-09T22:03:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-sdmb-fight-ignorance-with-ad-hominems/108174/61 "2002-05-11T02:28:39Z")
Alright I concede to Maeglin and Go Bear about the Ms. forum. As far as the arguments are concerned, I am NOT advocating not ripping them to shreds. If they say all black people should be locked up in cages, and you think you need to reply, reply with why black people should not be locked up in cages rather than speaking about how any thinking human would obviously disagree with them, even if it is within this realm of the ridiculous, that is what I mean by lending credibility. They posted to have a discussion, so give them that, and if you so choose to call them an idiot along the way, that’s all good, sometimes I choose to as well. \ Anyway, I think this thread has kind of exhausted it’s value for me. While it didn’t get too out of hand it did remind me of why I never post in the pit. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-sdmb-fight-ignorance-with-ad-hominems/108174/62 "2002-05-11T02:42:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Abe \* > On the other hand the quality of the sarcasm from some posters–including you–can be pretty low and rather useless for humorous purposes, or for most purposes other than making the speaker feel big while insulting and/or mocking someone or something. Hey, just 'cause you’re losing the _Blade Runner_ discussion, don’t be dissing my sarcasm abilities. Since this is the Pit, though, I’ll just follow through with: shut the fuck up, you fucking fucked-up fucker. Yes, I know, that was gratuitous and occasionally I sacrifice debate points for the sake of a sharp jab, but I still succeed in amusing myself, which is pretty much my main goal. Edifying others is a distant second. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-sdmb-fight-ignorance-with-ad-hominems/108174/63 "2002-05-11T03:12:28Z")
> [@](#): > > I still succeed in amusing myself And a good thing, too. What with you being one a them Kabekkers and all. ---
**Author:** ![Abe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f1d935/32.png) [@Abe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2002, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-sdmb-fight-ignorance-with-ad-hominems/108174/64 "2002-05-11T19:51:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bryan Ekers \* > Hey, just 'cause you’re losing the _Blade Runner_ discussion, don’t be dissing my sarcasm abilities. By gosh, losing? Don’t assume that because I didn’t respond to your silly mocking you won the discussion. There’s a forest of my arguments still standing that says otherwise! > [@](#): > > Since this is the Pit, though, I’ll just follow through with: shut the fuck up, you fucking fucked-up fucker. > > Yes, I know, that was gratuitous and occasionally I sacrifice debate points for the sake of a sharp jab, but I still succeed in amusing myself, which is pretty much my main goal. Edifying others is a distant second. That probably explains the abrasion level in some of your posts. ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-sdmb-fight-ignorance-with-ad-hominems/108174/65 "2002-05-12T02:36:34Z")
**Collounsbury** not that I am one to be known to suck up to anyone and in the short time I have been hanging in these environs I might have been noted to throw around a few ad hominems myself, all that being as it may I must say this for the record; given that I feel that you’re being given a rather undeserved run here… well it’s also pretty entertaining seeing you get a little good flogging, but then again schadenfreude is the only proper joy. Just know that IMO you’re rip roaring fucking hilarious old chap! Don’t let them know-nothing, lowlife, scum sucking, landlocked, herbivore, soft-shelled, feel-goody, communality driven dork-heads compare you to Cecil. He’d be a wet noodle in your league. OK granted you’re an elephant in glass shop in his…but still. For instance; rarely have I laughed as heartily as when reading your rebuke of the blabbering fools in the ICC thread started by our mutual friend the sand jockey and euro trash basher. Your apotheosis was reached when **MEB** stepped in and curtailed your expletives, whereupon your acerbic attacks were interspersed with apologies for the same. You both got your point across and you entertained. Granted you did almost, nearly, very close to go too far there. But shit did I laugh and I know others in your fan base that did as well. But I have to add that sometimes your opinions are utter fucking rot as someone would put it. No really, I just wanted to say that so you don’t get too soft on us here. Ad hominem is an integral part of the art of rhetoric and as long as it doesn’t pass into personal attacks, downright insults or slanderous libel, it must be and should be part of a proper debate. All that being said I have seen that the less verbose and daring shrink from debate at times and I quite quickly grew worried about one thing when starting to post here. In my first weeks I rather actively took part in the quite scathing pitting of two gents of lesser repute; out of which one was subsequently banned and one has since at his own degree been absent, and I came to worry about the greater cause. Who on earth are the ones that are going to be cured of ignorance when all the ignoramuses and horseradish brains have been scared away by our rebukes and/or banned to the far less enlightened alternatives at MSN? In other words; I do not agree that ad hominems are counter productive in debate and I think that to curtail them would lessen the rhetoric freedom we need in argument. One should however note that sometimes the use of multi-syllable verbiage, expletive, inflective and injective; adjacent to some close to stellar subject matters might be counterproductive towards the didactic cause celebre the SDMB is sworn to. Sparc Oh and before I go… **Sgt. J** didn’t you get the course literature? It contains a link to Merriam Webster… use it and don’t whine so much! ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-sdmb-fight-ignorance-with-ad-hominems/108174/66 "2002-05-12T02:40:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Truth Seeker \* > \*\*Actually, **Collounsbury** _is_ **Tamerlane**. Have you ever seen them simulpost? Good cop - Bad Cop. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-sdmb-fight-ignorance-with-ad-hominems/108174/67 "2002-05-12T02:40:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Don’t let them know-nothing, lowlife, scum sucking, landlocked, herbivore, soft-shelled, feel-goody, communality > driven dork-heads compare you to Cecil. I’d rather be the above then such an obvious ass-kisser. I mean, ass-kissing has it’s place, but . . . subtlety, lad, subtlety. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-sdmb-fight-ignorance-with-ad-hominems/108174/68 "2002-05-12T03:11:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jodi \* > \*\* > > I’d rather be the above then such an obvious ass-kisser. I mean, ass-kissing has it’s place, but . . . subtlety, lad, subtlety. \*\* He’s European. I’m not of course saying that’s good or bad. ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-sdmb-fight-ignorance-with-ad-hominems/108174/69 "2002-05-12T03:23:37Z")
> [@](#): > > _said Jodi_ > I’d rather be the above then such an obvious ass-kisser. I mean, ass-kissing has it’s place, but . . . subtlety, lad, subtlety Ah but you see dear **Jodi** you seem to fail to see my point. Some of us, and quite frankly although not mentioned I did feel a pang of guilt, are herein being accused of specifically not being so goddamned subtle in debate as some others feel would be required. So true to my nature of not being so subtle I would have to fail in subtlety also when agreeing or giving a compliment. Now why on earth I would ass kiss **Collounsbury** is somewhat enigmatic to me. You mistake agreement, subtle rhetoric and compliment for ass kissing. Or should I be blunt? Does the term preemptive self-defense say something to you? Ass kissing? You can kiss my ass! Sparc ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-sdmb-fight-ignorance-with-ad-hominems/108174/70 "2002-05-12T03:30:21Z")
> [@](#): > > _said Collounsbury_ > He’s European. > > I’m not of course saying that’s good or bad. What utter, cheap, fucking, rotten, poor, argument is that if I may pray ask? Take an understandable fucking stand at least, or have you morphed into **december**? ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-sdmb-fight-ignorance-with-ad-hominems/108174/71 "2002-05-12T03:32:47Z")
[quote] You mistake agreement, subtle rhetoric and compliment for ass kissing. [/qupte] (A) I’m not mad about this, and I hope you’re not either. Just thought I’d clear that up, since tone is obviously lost in written communication.; (B) “Subtle rhetoric”? _Subtle_? Come _on_, man. To grovel more completely you’d have to dig an actual hole in the ground. (C) I’ll kiss your ass when it’s saute’ed in olive oil and garlic and served for my dinner with a nice chardonnay. (Assuming your ass is white meat. If it’s red meat, a nice merlot.) Oh, and welcome to the Board. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-sdmb-fight-ignorance-with-ad-hominems/108174/72 "2002-05-12T03:33:49Z")
Now now, I was just making an observation. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-sdmb-fight-ignorance-with-ad-hominems/108174/73 "2002-05-12T03:35:11Z")
SPARC – I venture to guess C’BURY may be yanking your chain, though I’ll be the first to admit that with him it’s sometimes hard to tell. But I know I am. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-sdmb-fight-ignorance-with-ad-hominems/108174/74 "2002-05-12T03:42:03Z")
Hell boys and girls… you took my two last posts seriously? Give in will ya. Idid feel that Collounsbury deserved praise were other offered critique and just as when I give rebuke I give compliments straight and flowery. I haven’t had to knock him over yet, but I haven’t and I don’t see any reason to grovel either. I’m sure Collounsbury doesn’t mind either way. Thanks for being CLEAR though, since I’m a bit European you know… I might not have gotten the SUBTLETY. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-sdmb-fight-ignorance-with-ad-hominems/108174/75 "2002-05-12T03:45:38Z")
Well, we could kiss and make up, but this is the Pit so – sod off. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-sdmb-fight-ignorance-with-ad-hominems/108174/76 "2002-05-12T03:55:13Z")
Well, well. I really can’t take credit for either the unimaginative directness of Middle America or the misplaced decadent subteties of Europe, so I am afraid I shall simplely sod off. ---
**Author:** ![celestina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/258eb7/32.png) [@celestina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/celestina)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-sdmb-fight-ignorance-with-ad-hominems/108174/77 "2002-05-12T05:17:39Z")
[celestina sneaks up behind **Collounsbury** as he “sods off” and smacks him on his virtual bottom with her virtual paddle.] [innocent eyes] Gee, I wonder is virtually spanking someone considered to be an ad hominem attack? [/innocent eyes] **Tamerlane** , please don’t get all upset at folks. I find you immensely entertaining and always enjoy reading your posts and stuff. I think you’re dark and dangerous, and I most certainly would not want to get on your bad side, hon. 🙂 Congrats, also on your upcoming thousandth post, Sugar. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-sdmb-fight-ignorance-with-ad-hominems/108174/78 "2002-05-12T06:16:07Z")
**celestina** - Okay, **you** and you alone, get a piece of cake :). Hey, somebody has to be the good cop. **Collounsbury** shakes them up, I offer coffee and a sympathetic ear - Pretty soon, voila! We know where the body is buried :p. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![celestina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/258eb7/32.png) [@celestina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/celestina)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-sdmb-fight-ignorance-with-ad-hominems/108174/79 "2002-05-12T06:25:30Z")
**{{{Tamerlane}}}** , awww, Sweetie, thank you the piece of cake. [gloating] I got some cake. I got some cake. Neener, neener. :p:p:p;p:p:p:p:p:p;p:p:p:p:p:p:p:D:p:p:p:p:p:) ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2002, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-sdmb-fight-ignorance-with-ad-hominems/108174/80 "2002-05-12T14:22:31Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by The Mermaid_ > Statements presented as facts should be quantifiable with a cite. > > _example 1_ Ohio became a state in 1783 > > [cite](http://www.theus50.com/ohio/history.shtml) Actually, Ohio became a state in 1803. [cite](http://www.oplin.lib.oh.us/products/ohiodefined/ohd-1.html) It’s not nitpicking…it’s just telling ignorance, “You can run, but you can’t hide.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-sdmb-fight-ignorance-with-ad-hominems/108174.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-sdmb-fight-ignorance-with-ad-hominems/108174.md?page=5)