# How can the U.S. regain International goodwill? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 14, 2007, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-u-s-regain-international-goodwill/387946 "2007-01-14T16:21:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2025, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-u-s-regain-international-goodwill/387946/101 "2025-12-30T20:27:38Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Also R&D tends to happen in blue cities in blue states, which helps insulate immigrants from the hostility of MAGA. Not when the MAGAT-in-Chief is running ICE. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2025, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-u-s-regain-international-goodwill/387946/102 "2025-12-30T20:31:35Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > So I don’t know if a top tier scientist would want to go to Canada or Germany, since they wouldn’t have the R&D career options you’d find in the US. Something that has come up in coffee break chats in my workplace: “I don’t know if I’ll ever go to the US again.” These are upper-income, white folks. The US is increasingly seen as a dangerous place for non-Americans. Takes a lot of R&D funding, with security guarantees, to overcome that gut reaction. Personal safety, for yourself and family, trumps career opportunities. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2025, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-u-s-regain-international-goodwill/387946/103 "2025-12-30T20:40:31Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > “I don’t know if I’ll ever go to the US again.” Seconded from an upper income, white European. With strong leaning towards “no, for sure not”. I have insulted the Great Leader, how can I be sure to pass the border control without being arrested, kept in a Guantánamo like prison for a couple of weeks (without medication I need) and end up expelled at my own expense? No thanks, i’ll pass. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2025, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-u-s-regain-international-goodwill/387946/104 "2025-12-30T20:57:26Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The issue is I don’t think any other developed nation has a large population and spends as much on R&D as the US. For now maybe, at the rate Trump & co are going that may not be true for much longer. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2025, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-u-s-regain-international-goodwill/387946/105 "2025-12-30T21:06:43Z")
That’s another extra problem, How many desirable immigrants can withstand the loyalty tests required to immigrate? even if they are willing to ignore the risks they maybe simply not be allowed to go. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2025, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-u-s-regain-international-goodwill/387946/106 "2025-12-30T21:24:41Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > For now maybe, at the rate Trump & co are going that may not be true for much longer. Started back in February: [https://www.axios.com/2025/02/26/musk-doge-science-cuts-universities-fallout](https://www.axios.com/2025/02/26/musk-doge-science-cuts-universities-fallout) > **[DOGE's death blow to education studies](https://hechingerreport.org/proof-points-doge-death-blow-education-studies/)** > > Researchers say students and schools will suffer without vital data > **[DOGE is ‘gutting’ key education research efforts. Here’s how that affects...](https://www.chalkbeat.org/2025/02/11/elon-musk-and-doge-cancel-education-department-research-contracts/)** > > The Trump administration canceled dozens of contracts held by the research arm of the U.S. Department of Education. The president is looking to significantly scale back the size and work of the Education Department. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2026, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-u-s-regain-international-goodwill/387946/107 "2026-01-30T17:36:35Z")
“We holds these truths to be self evident…” was a Mission Statement, not a dare. Lets act like it locally and internationally. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2026, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-u-s-regain-international-goodwill/387946/108 "2026-01-30T20:08:35Z")
From The Line: A Canadian fears the worst and has no hope of the U.S. regaining international goodwill anytime soon: > **[Allan Stratton: It's time to consider the worst-case American scenarios](https://www.readtheline.ca/p/allan-stratton-its-time-to-consider?utm_campaign=email-half-post&r=2ibjku&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email)** > > Every democratic implosion under Trump is a fantasy future until it becomes a tragic past ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2026, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-u-s-regain-international-goodwill/387946/109 "2026-01-30T21:35:04Z")
He could have. But he really didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2026, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-u-s-regain-international-goodwill/387946/110 "2026-03-30T04:46:26Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Unfortunately, I have the misfortune of having been born an American. The heroes of the 21st century will be the people who stop us. The concept of an alliance of middle powers that support democracy and human rights is a good one. I really hope that catches on. The world needs that as an alternative to picking between an ethnonationalist, authoritarian US and an authoritarian, dystopian China. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2026, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-u-s-regain-international-goodwill/387946/111 "2026-03-30T15:25:51Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The concept of an alliance of middle powers that support democracy and human rights is a good one. I really hope that catches on. The world needs that as an alternative to picking between an ethnonationalist, authoritarian US and an authoritarian, dystopian China. I think it’s somewhat akin to WWII, the western democracies had to work with Stalin to defeat Hitler. Now, they’ll have to work with China to defeat the US and worry about the next war after we’re contained. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2026, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-u-s-regain-international-goodwill/387946/112 "2026-03-30T16:47:53Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I think it’s somewhat akin to WWII, the western democracies had to work with Stalin to defeat Hitler. Now, they’ll have to work with China to defeat the US and worry about the next war after we’re contained. The US is vile and shameful, but its nowhere near as bad as China. The US scores far higher on democracy and human rights than China, even though the US scores much lower than other western nations on democracy and human rights. I feel teh goal is more to avoid a cold war situation where nations had to side with the US or USSR. Hopefully they will have 3 choices this century if an authoritarian ethnostate US and a dystopian Chinese dictatorship are not appealing, they can side with a pro-democracy, pro-human rights alliance of middle powers. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2026, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-u-s-regain-international-goodwill/387946/113 "2026-03-30T17:00:17Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The US is vile and shameful, but its nowhere near as bad as China. The US scores far higher on democracy and human rights than China, even though the US scores much lower than other western nations on democracy and human rights. I honestly don’t know enough to say if China is moving in the right direction or not, but I can confidently say the US is moving in the wrong direction. It must be stopped. China isn’t the threat that the US is. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2026, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-u-s-regain-international-goodwill/387946/114 "2026-03-30T17:02:08Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > China isn’t the threat that the US is Yet. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2026, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-u-s-regain-international-goodwill/387946/115 "2026-03-30T17:12:12Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The US is vile and shameful, but its nowhere near as bad as China. The US scores far higher on democracy and human rights than China, even though the US scores much lower than other western nations on democracy and human rights. Correct, but Stalin was also from a utilitarian perspective on par with Hitler because he killed around the same number of people, in addition to enabling Hitler’s initial conquests. The difference was that Russia was not attacking the West. Currently China is willing to limit their conquests to the surrounding territory (like the Soviet Union did). Obviously in the long term, it’s bad for Western nations if they do not liberalize and also become the new hegemon because they’ll eventually be able to project military power over a long distance, but that’s a generation or two away, and politicians usually don’t think that long ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2026, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-u-s-regain-international-goodwill/387946/116 "2026-03-30T17:55:44Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The US is vile and shameful, but its nowhere near as bad as China. That is absolutely true in 2024, and mostly true in 2026, and I’m not taking bets for 2028. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2026, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-u-s-regain-international-goodwill/387946/117 "2026-03-30T19:24:32Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I think it’s somewhat akin to WWII, the western democracies had to work with Stalin to defeat Hitler. Now, they’ll have to work with China to defeat the US and worry about the next war after we’re contained. The USA doesn’t have to be “Defeated,” it has to be defended against. The reality is that we may be moving into a world wherein other countries need to band together under a nuclear umbrella to just avoid invasion. That was the point of NATO, so the free world will have to recreate that. I have no interest in being in an alliance with China. But the free world? Sure - most of NATO (Hungary can go be with Putin) plus Japan, Australia, Mexico, NZ, much of Latin America, many democratic African nations, why not? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2026, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-u-s-regain-international-goodwill/387946/118 "2026-03-30T19:29:10Z")
I can trust China to act in China’s best interests. I can no longer trust the USA to act in the USA’s best interests. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2026, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-u-s-regain-international-goodwill/387946/119 "2026-03-30T20:22:37Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The USA doesn’t have to be “Defeated,” it has to be defended against. See also: Cold War I So that may be the gist of it all over again: _containment_, until one of the parties just quits from exhaustion. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2026, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-u-s-regain-international-goodwill/387946/120 "2026-03-30T20:25:09Z")
Did you miss the part where in a little over a year, the US has attacked several countries and talked about attacking more? The US is a dangerous rouge state. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-u-s-regain-international-goodwill/387946.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-the-u-s-regain-international-goodwill/387946.md?page=7)