# How can they be sure it was murder? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 12, 2003, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-they-be-sure-it-was-murder/194689 "2003-08-12T17:53:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-they-be-sure-it-was-murder/194689/1 "2003-08-12T17:53:37Z")
It seems to be fairly well established that Otzi died as a direct result of violence. But what evidence is had for the claimes made that it was “murder”? After all, the guy could have been some sort of iron-age fugitive from justice, hunted down by warriors especially appointed by the village chief in order to stop his villainous rampage. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-they-be-sure-it-was-murder/194689/2 "2003-08-12T18:19:36Z")
Are you talking about the iceman? If so, an allegation of urder likely arose from finding the arrowpoint in his shoulder (read:shot in the back). There’s a chance and a fairly good one that it wasn’t a fair fight. ---
**Author:** ![Umbriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9de053/32.png) [@Umbriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Umbriel)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-they-be-sure-it-was-murder/194689/3 "2003-08-12T19:24:25Z")
Fair fight or not, there’s no way of knowing whether Otzi was just randomly bushwacked, was killed for something a relative had done previously in continuation of some tribal blood feud, or was killed for something he himself had done previously (rape/robbery/murder, etc.). Referring to it as “murder” is obviously just poetic license intended to make the story more compelling to the masses otherwise uninterested in history. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-they-be-sure-it-was-murder/194689/4 "2003-08-12T19:36:57Z")
Is it murder if a convicted murderer has escaped and is shot in the back while fleeing from justice? How can we be certain that this scenario is not what actually happened? What conclusive evidence is there that it must have been murder? ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-they-be-sure-it-was-murder/194689/5 "2003-08-12T20:21:43Z")
Who’s claiming he was murdered? That’s an allegation that likely can never be substantiated. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-they-be-sure-it-was-murder/194689/6 "2003-08-12T20:27:15Z")
Well maybe it was a hunting accident? He wasn’t wearing hunters orange you know. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-they-be-sure-it-was-murder/194689/7 "2003-08-12T20:28:59Z")
It seems he escaped after being mortally wounded (they would have taken his possessions off him, right?) which argues against pursuit by a bronze age posse (who would have wanted to make sure the threat was gone). ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-they-be-sure-it-was-murder/194689/8 "2003-08-12T20:37:39Z")
Truth is, we don’t know and never will know exactly what happened. The whole issue seems to be attempting to split hairs. I can’t seem to grasp why it is necessary to create some trumped-up sensationalism around this corpse. Isn’t just finding it and appreciating it for what it is and its scientific significance enough without some “Hollywood Murder Mystery” horseshit? * * * Even Hitler liked Ice Cream. ---
**Author:** ![Lobelia\_Overhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/54ee81/32.png) [@Lobelia\_Overhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobelia_Overhill)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-they-be-sure-it-was-murder/194689/9 "2003-08-13T20:06:39Z")
He was cleaning his bow and it went off? ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-they-be-sure-it-was-murder/194689/10 "2003-08-13T22:52:01Z")
I saw a story that claimed he died after a fight that lasted two days … how the hell did they figure that out?