I’m going with a scheme like this, since there’s nothing about confidentiality or blind bids. Something like this is fair only as long as no one knows what other people are bidding. If some people have access to other bids, and some don’t, the ones who do are going to try to snipe, sort of, like people on eBay-- put money in at the last second, making the largest deposit by a few dollars, while those on the outside lose for certain.
Indeed, what’s to stop the person running it from waiting until a sufficient amount of money has been Venmo’d, taking the money out of the Venmo account and then depositing a “largest sum +$1” amount themselves back into the account, making them the official winner? It’d be in accordance with the actual stated rules of the competition.
Whether that would still fall afoul of fraud or lottery or whatever relevant laws: no idea. But they could certainly claim to have done exactly what they said they would do.
But Deal Dash works that way. You have to purchase bids and can spend as many as you want to be the top bidder. The person that wins the bid has to pay for the item but nobody gets their bid fees back. That’s how you can buy a $500 computer for only $23.11 because the site also received $800 in bids.
That’s clearly gambling. They may have found a loophole so that it’s not considered that way legally, but that is quite obviously gambling. You are laying down a bet by making a blind bid, your bet is that the amount of money will be the winning bid, and if you win that bet by actually being the top bid, then you get the item.
And that’s fine, some people enjoy gambling, I don’t so I would not use a site like Deal Dash.
Then again, I’ve had people try to argue that state lotteries aren’t really a form of gambling, and therefore the people who play lotteries don’t gamble.
There were (are?) several competitors to Deal Dash. I was struggling to remember any of their names so I could cite them.
I have a little trouble with absolute pronouncements about what is or isn’t gambling. All-pay auctions are a well-recognized form of commerce.
Not to my taste, and online examples are more likely to be scammy than not, but there are legit uses for such arrangements.
With auctions, the prize is defined before people make their bids, or at a minimum, it isn’t determined by the amount of bids. While the supposed billboard scheme shares the “everyone pays” aspect of an all-pay auction, it differs in that it is not a specific, tangible item or property that is being sold.
It’s worth noting that one of the most well-known forms of all-pay auction is the Tullock auction, also known as the Tullock lottery. It absolutely blurs the line between what is and isn’t gambling.
And yes, it’s well-recognized; Gordon Tullock was a respected award-winning professor of law and economics. Whether or not something is gambling is not the same as saying whether or not something is legitimate.
Quite.
Both on the moral / ethical scale and within the details of specific laws on the topic. For sure bad actors are always looking for ways to slip a con into the cracks between existing legislation.
Right.
Same, thanks @kenobi_65! I’ve always wondered as well.
It’s not a blind bid. You can see exactly where you are on the bidder list. Each bid is (or was, at least) like 25 cents. If people are still bidding at the stated end time then it is extended until everyone is done. Your hope is that the people who have spent $50 on multiple bids quit and you jump in with your single bid and no one bothers to top you.
Then when you said this:
That was very misleading, because you were replying to a quote where we were talking about a situation with a blind bid. I know you didn’t include the discussion of the blind bid in your reply, but if you don’t clarify the difference, it muddies the discussion.
this. If you can get 50¢ on the dollar laundering money you’re doing pretty good
Huh? let’s talk this through.
So I am wannabe money launderer. So I get a venmo account. Then I deposit dirty money into a bank. Then I venmo the money to my venmo account. Which puts it in another bank. Then I take it out of the venmo account, which I can only do by putting it another bank.
How exactly does that fat paper trail with my name on every bit of it clean the money?
Now imagine me offering this service to a 3rd party, where they deposit money in my Venmo and I later withdraw less money and give it back to them, keeping my vig. Once again huge paper trail pointed right at my forehead.
It could be all sorts of a scam, but money laundering isn’t it.
Just a head’s up. I remember there was a thread where we discussed how money laundering operations worked and the mods issued a warning that board policy forbids discussions of how to commit illegal acts.
It is Layering. Depositing the dirty Money is Placement.