# How can Trump get around the 14th Amendment? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [December 9, 2024, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368 "2024-12-09T01:15:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/181 "2025-01-21T02:08:20Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > That can only be interpreted as that everyone born in the land before 20 Feb 2025 remains presumed a citizen by birth. In that case, the order fails at what it purports to accomplish. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/182 "2025-01-21T02:11:50Z")
What it is meant to accomplish is tell the MAGAs that Trump ended birthright citizenship. Just like he built a wall, intimidated all our enemies, brought peace to the Middle East, etc. And maybe get them to hassle hospital staff, home care midwives, and county registrars to demand that they begin interrogating any mother in labor or parent of a newborn and show _them_ the proof of the family’s status. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/183 "2025-01-21T02:13:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > In that case, the order fails at what it purports to accomplish. The intent of the order is to create free rein for the Trump administration to persecute and deport people, and create the most massive possible Constitutional clusterfuck so as to allow for increasingly arbitrary rulings and orders. If you’re scanning this whole thing legally and literally I’m sorry but we’re in different times now. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/184 "2025-01-21T02:14:42Z")
Ceremonial Racial Hatred to go along with Ceremonial Deism. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/185 "2025-01-21T02:16:55Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > The intent of the order is to create free rein for the Trump administration to persecute and deport people, and create the most massive possible Constitutional clusterfuck so as to allow for increasingly arbitrary rulings and orders. Which is why it can’t possibly hold up in court. I can already see a dozen holes in this order. Foundlings, for example, are presumed to be citizens - what’s to stop an undocumented parent from abandoning their baby at the door of St. Mary’s, for instance, so that their parentage will be forever unknowable and therefore make citizens of them? What if the undocumented mother denies knowing who the father is, so that he can’t be shown to not be a citizen? ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/186 "2025-01-21T02:17:22Z")
So we’ve pretty quickly moved from “he can’t” to “oh well it’s not that big of a deal”. Next will be “he was right to do it” and then “I’m going to help”. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/187 "2025-01-21T02:17:36Z")
He can’t and he hasn’t. This order is untenable. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/188 "2025-01-21T02:19:03Z")
The undocumented kid (depending on skin color) will not be considered US citizen. It’s not hard. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/189 "2025-01-21T02:19:35Z")
> [@Zoobi](#): > > The undocumented kid (depending on skin color) will not be considered US citizen. That’s even more blatantly unconstitutional than the order itself. It’s not going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/190 "2025-01-21T02:20:02Z")
Or what-You’ll be shocked? ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/191 "2025-01-21T02:20:59Z")
How is the kid going to prove his parents were US citizens? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/192 "2025-01-21T02:20:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Or what-You’ll be shocked? Or the entire concept of citizenship ceases to have meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/193 "2025-01-21T02:21:26Z")
You, and most Americans, won’t have to worry about it. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/194 "2025-01-21T02:21:37Z")
Some of those drafting it may be playing the Long Game, looking forward to a future generation of noncitizens who’d be at the mercy of whatever’s the policy of the day. And yes, a lot of it _ **is** _ performative. AGAIN: from its very letter it will apply only to those born after next February 20. No one who is a registered voter for the next 17 years and 10 months gets hit. Now… the MAGA Caucus in Congress… THEY will be willing an able to start right away figuring out ways to extend that to people already out and about. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/195 "2025-01-21T02:22:09Z")
If parentage is unknown then the child is a citizen by default. [https://fam.state.gov/fam/08fam/08fam030101.html](https://fam.state.gov/fam/08fam/08fam030101.html) > [@](#): > > a. Under INA 301(f) (8 U.S.C. 1401(f)) (formerly Section 301(a)(6)) INA), a child of unknown parents is conclusively presumed to be a U.S. citizen if found in the United States when under 5 years of age, unless foreign birth is established before the child reaches age 21. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/196 "2025-01-21T02:22:30Z")
Not any more. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/197 "2025-01-21T02:23:35Z")
Please indicate what part of the order nullifies INA 301(f) (8 U.S.C. 1401(f)). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/198 "2025-01-21T02:24:39Z")
Please indicate where Trump says he is done issuing Executive Orders. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/199 "2025-01-21T02:25:27Z")
Please indicate how an executive order can nullify a law passed by Congress. [https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title8-section1401&num=0&edition=prelim](https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title8-section1401&num=0&edition=prelim) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/200 "2025-01-21T02:26:15Z")
> [@Zoobi](#): > > How is the kid going to prove his parents were US citizens? The EO does NOT amend the law that says foundlings are per se presumed citizens. That is left as an exercise for Congress, the Agencies and the courts. Remember, the EO leaves it up to DOJ, State, Homeland and SSA to figure out HOW to enforce it. And with the elimination of the Chevron doctrine, the rulings of the regulatory agencies now have less weight than they used to. I agree with what was stated above, the purpose is to create uncertainty for months as agencies try to figure out if they have to do anything differently, as it works its way up through the courts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368.md?page=11)