# How can Trump get around the 14th Amendment? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [December 9, 2024, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368 "2024-12-09T01:15:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/221 "2025-01-21T03:13:44Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Which medical privacy right specifically? The AMA holds that patients’ immigration status is protected by HIPAA. > **[Should Immigration Status Information Be Considered Protected Health...](https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/should-immigration-status-information-be-considered-protected-health-information/2019-01)** > > Being undocumented is a risk factor for mental illness, and immigration status relates prominently to overall health. That’s enough to consider it protected health information under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act Privacy... > [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > The Supreme Court has never had a problem reversing itself Reversing itself on Wong Kim Ark would have a cascade effect that would render citizenship law as a whole unrecognizable. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/222 "2025-01-21T03:17:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’m pointing out ways in which the order as written doesn’t work. If the loopholes you’re pointing out are so convoluted that almost no one will exploit them, then what does it matter? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/223 "2025-01-21T03:17:56Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > If the loopholes you’re pointing out are so convoluted that almost no one will exploit them “Who is the father of your baby?” “I don’t know.” “Are you a US citizen?” “I don’t want to answer that.” Real convoluted, that one. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/224 "2025-01-21T03:19:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The AMA holds that patients’ immigration status is protected by HIPAA. From your ‘’‘cite’‘’, > There is no case law directly addressing the question of whether immigration status constitutes PHI {Protected Health Information}; indeed, there are few cases analyzing what constitutes PHI in any context. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/225 "2025-01-21T03:20:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > > > That law does not define “subject to the jurisdiction of the United States”. > > Which the Supreme Court has conveniently already addressed; Thanks for that. Of course, the Supreme Court can overrule decisions.it doesn’t like. In 1898, did SCOTUS worry about whether an amendment was self-executing? I doubt it. Today’s SCOTUS may be no more conservative than that of 1898, but they have a bigger repertoire of excuses for ignoring the intent of the Constitution. A year from now, who will have standing to sue? A six month old baby living in China, whose mother came on a tourist visa to give birth here? Probably not. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/226 "2025-01-21T03:20:56Z")
What does that have to do with the statement that “The AMA holds that patients’ immigration status is protected by HIPAA”? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/227 "2025-01-21T03:21:46Z")
That the AMA doesn’t have any fucking thing to say about this that actually matters. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/228 "2025-01-21T03:22:06Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > What does that have to do with the statement that “The AMA holds that patients’ immigration status is protected by HIPAA” The AMA is not a legal authority, nor a governmental regulatory authority. They may _advise_ their members that they believe that immigration status is covered under HIPAA, but they are in no way responsible for determining if this is, actually, legally the case. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/229 "2025-01-21T03:22:12Z")
Yeah, what the hell does the American Medical Association know about (checks notes) the practice of medicine? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/230 "2025-01-21T03:22:52Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > The AMA is not a legal authority, nor a governmental regulatory authority. Did I say they were? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/231 "2025-01-21T03:23:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Did I say they were? The point is that their opinion on the matter weighs only slightly more than yours or mine, when the law gets involved. If the Administration and the Supreme Court decide to address the question, the AMA’s opinion will be viewed as “yes, that’s nice.” ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/232 "2025-01-21T03:24:22Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > The point is that their opinion on the matter weighs only slightly more than yours or mine Their opinion has a much larger chance of winding up in an amicus than yours or mine. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/233 "2025-01-21T03:25:29Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Their opinion has a much larger chance of winding up in an amicus than yours or mine Hence, why I said, “slightly more.” You or I could file an amicus brief, too. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/234 "2025-01-21T03:27:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Reversing itself on Wong Kim Ark would have a cascade effect that would render citizenship law as a whole unrecognizable. Reversing _Plessy v. Ferguson_ and _Roe v. Wade_ also had cascading effects that rendered many laws and even entire sections of state constitutions moot. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/235 "2025-01-21T03:31:18Z")
Just a little history reminder for folks, _United States v. Wong Kim Ark_ was the bit of case law that was used to show, with no doubt, that Obama was not a citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/236 "2025-01-21T03:37:31Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > _United States v. Wong Kim Ark_ was the bit of case law that was used to show, with no doubt, that Obama was not a citizen. What on Earth are you talking about? Obama was born in the US to a US citizen mother. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/237 "2025-01-21T05:10:39Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Because the consequences of such a ruling would create an untenable scenario in which the citizenship of every single person in the country would be in question and tens of millions (if not 100 million or more) of people would be incapable of establishing that they are entitled to be here. Which is the point, it means that _anyone_ brown or who Trump/the Right doesn’t like can be declared non-citizen and a foreign enemy to be imprisoned, deported or killed. And “a hundred million or more” _is_ how many people the Right wants to get rid of in their crusade to racially purify the nation. Anyone who isn’t white, anyone who isn’t right wing, anyone who isn’t Christian. Destroying the legal meaningfulness of citizenship - and the civil rights that come with it - is a useful tool for their intended genocide. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/238 "2025-01-21T05:24:22Z")
We can all be thankful that the AMA isn’t going to let that happen! How they’re going to do that from prison and/or execution after their Nuremburg Law convictions remains to be seen. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/239 "2025-01-21T05:33:35Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Which is the point, it means that _anyone_ brown or who Trump/the Right doesn’t like can be declared non-citizen and a foreign enemy to be imprisoned, deported or killed. And “a hundred million or more” _is_ how many people the Right wants to get rid of in their crusade to racially purify the nation. Anyone who isn’t white, anyone who isn’t right wing, anyone who isn’t Christian. > > Destroying the legal meaningfulness of citizenship - and the civil rights that come with it - is a useful tool for their intended genocide. Right. We’ll compare notes four years from now. I have a feeling this is gonna go less like the way you said things would happen eight years ago and more like the way I said things would happen eight years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/240 "2025-01-21T05:40:13Z")
I don’t see any “note comparing” happening four years from now, realistically and, even if it happens, I can’t see you losing anything except maybe bragging rights. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368.md?page=13)