# How can Trump get around the 14th Amendment? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [December 9, 2024, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368 "2024-12-09T01:15:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/41 "2024-12-09T18:41:02Z")
I’m guessing the gals entering the border control points will have to take pregnancy tests soon. Perhaps as part of a pre-clearance process. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/42 "2024-12-09T18:41:45Z")
I thought government workers are protected by qualified immunity from such civil suits. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/43 "2024-12-09T18:43:33Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Well, as I’ve said for years, it comes down to the people doing the work. If they stand on principle, and refuse to carry out such orders, sure, he can fire them. But if too many are willing to sacrifice their jobs, he will run out of people to do the job. You can’t deport millions of people with the dregs of the Border Service. The people who will lose their jobs will be the people who refuse to enforce Trump’s rules. We saw in Trump’s first administration that immigration police were all too willing to put people in cages and separate kids from their parents. What is it you think they will not do? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/44 "2024-12-09T18:50:20Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Trump can just keep firing people till he finds one to do his bidding. It worked for Nixon. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/45 "2024-12-09T19:03:30Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Again, what if Trump says fuck it all and just orders immigration to do what he tells them to do? Then the deportee citizen calls a US attorney and they file a lawsuit. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > SCOTUS has given the president broad immunity from legal repercussions. That’s not the same as saying illegal acts are legal as long as the President does it. It just means he is protected from criminal and civil penalties. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/46 "2024-12-09T19:08:19Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > What is it you think they will not do? I’m not sure, I’m just addressing the possibilities. For instance: > [@Czarcasm](#): > > It worked for Nixon. Was Nixon ordering people to do something that he was specifically told not to do by the courts, or was it just a bad idea? There’s a difference between, “I’ll do what the president tells me to do”, and “I’ll do what the president tells me to do, even though the Supreme Court has ruled that it is illegal.” Eventually they’ll have to decide where their loyalty lies, and then we’ll find out what they’re actually willing to do. I’m not really looking forward to the finding out, though, since the results will all be bad. The only difference is in how bad, and the nature of that badness. Do enough people support a criminal president? If not, what happens when the legal president has no power to do anything, because the civil service have collectively told him to piss off? What happens if the civil service splits 50-50, or 60-40? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/47 "2024-12-09T19:19:09Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Without birthright citizenship a US birth certificate ceases to be proof of citizenship. So how does _anybody_ other than naturalized citizens proof that they’re a US citizen? [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLJyglKW4AA4i1B.jpg) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLJyglKW4AA4i1B.jpg) That’s how. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/48 "2024-12-09T19:46:12Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Was Nixon ordering people to do something that he was specifically told not to do by the courts, or was it just a bad idea? > > There’s a difference between, “I’ll do what the president tells me to do”, and “I’ll do what the president tells me to do, even though the Supreme Court has ruled that it is illegal.” Right. The way I remember it, the most recent time that happened was back during Andrew Jackson’s day, with the Trail of Tears. If it’s happened since, I must have either not heard about it or forgotten about it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/49 "2024-12-09T19:49:06Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > If it’s happened since, I must have either not heard about it or forgotten about it. [Operation Wetback](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback). > The program was implemented in June 1954 by U.S. Attorney General [Herbert Brownell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Brownell_Jr.).[[1]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback#cite_note-1) The short-lived operation used military-style tactics to remove Mexican immigrants—some of them American citizens—from the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/50 "2024-12-09T19:54:24Z")
But that wasn’t ruled illegal by the courts at the time it was happening. Those who are saying Trump can’t do half the stuff he wants to do are largely basing that on the assumption that some court will rule against him, and that this ruling will have some great effect. That’s the great unanswered question. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/51 "2024-12-09T20:01:55Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > But that wasn’t ruled illegal by the courts at the time it was happening. And now it can be pointed to as precedent. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/52 "2024-12-09T20:28:02Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > And now it can be pointed to as precedent. And now the president is legally immune from breaking the law. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/53 "2024-12-09T20:56:47Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I thought government workers are protected by qualified immunity from such civil suits. Not when they are sued in their capacity as a public official, to stop doing actions contrary to law. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/54 "2024-12-09T22:16:00Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > He doesn’t have to. Just SCOTUS. You do realize that the Supreme Court has original jurisdiction in very few matters, right? Any suit over immigration policy will originate with a federal or state judge, then go to the Court of Appeals, then get appealed en banc, and then and only then doss the Supreme Court get a chance to look at it, during which time the orders in question will be stayed and unenactable. That’s not a process that will play out in the span of a single presidential term. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/55 "2024-12-09T22:57:01Z")
Meanwhile, Trump is also claiming he wants to work with Democrats to help DACAs get citizenship, because his immigration policy is, like the rest of him, confused and incoherent. [https://www.boundless.com/blog/trump-signals-willingness-to-work-with-democrats-on-daca/](https://www.boundless.com/blog/trump-signals-willingness-to-work-with-democrats-on-daca/) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/56 "2024-12-09T23:09:25Z")
Would this be some of the same Democrats he wants dead, or just some he wants jailed? ---
**Author:** ![Sylvanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/57 "2024-12-09T23:39:08Z")
You _may_ be delusional. If so, you’re my kind of delusional. From your lips to dog’s ear… or your keyboard to dogs eyes … whatever. It all works for me if it happens. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/58 "2024-12-09T23:49:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > because his immigration policy is, like the rest of him, confused and incoherent. Back in 1976 Gary Trudeau came up with the best way to handle leaders like Trump. [![](https://www.sltrib.com/resizer/v2/2B4MAAR3IVAJJGNZ7PDWJOWWHI.jpeg?auth=c6aab86b21901a48ea3914b3e5c1f3e6ce318ae91e88735035f9979ec1a43779&width=1024&quality=88) ](https://www.sltrib.com/resizer/v2/2B4MAAR3IVAJJGNZ7PDWJOWWHI.jpeg?auth=c6aab86b21901a48ea3914b3e5c1f3e6ce318ae91e88735035f9979ec1a43779&width=1024&quality=88) ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/59 "2024-12-10T01:27:23Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You do realize that the Supreme Court has original jurisdiction in very few matters, right? Any suit over immigration policy will originate with a federal or state judge, then go to the Court of Appeals, then get appealed en banc, and then and only then doss the Supreme Court So how does that contradict what I said that he only needs to win in the court of last appeal? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2024, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368/60 "2024-12-10T01:29:22Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > how does that contradict what I said that he only needs to win in the court of last appeal? He won’t be president anymore by the time it gets there. “Should several million people be retroactively stripped of their citizenship?” isn’t a question any court is going to be able to resolve quickly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-trump-get-around-the-14th-amendment/1011368.md?page=4)