# How can we ban a 'non-british' person from a job? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 16, 2011, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-ban-a-non-british-person-from-a-job/592885 "2011-08-16T11:48:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Truffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Truffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truffle)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-ban-a-non-british-person-from-a-job/592885/1 "2011-08-16T11:48:53Z")
Hi, Fist post here, and a recent news article had me wondering: U.S ‘SuperCop’ Bill Bratten has openly stated he would be very interested in taking the vacant position as Metropolitan Police Chief here in the UK. However he has been blocked from applying because the Home Secretary is adamant that only British Nationals can apply. How does this not break the law on race relations and equality? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-ban-a-non-british-person-from-a-job/592885/2 "2011-08-16T11:51:57Z")
> [@Truffle](#): > > Hi, > > . However he has been blocked from applying because the Home Secretary is adamant that only British Nationals can apply. > > How does this not break the law on race relations and equality? British Nationality is a citizenship, not a race. If he was eligible for a British Passport for some reason (ancestry visa usually), then he could apply. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-ban-a-non-british-person-from-a-job/592885/3 "2011-08-16T12:04:07Z")
> [@Truffle](#): > > Hi, > > Fist post here, and a recent news article had me wondering: > > U.S ‘SuperCop’ Bill Bratten has openly stated he would be very interested in taking the vacant position as Metropolitan Police Chief here in the UK. However he has been blocked from applying because the Home Secretary is adamant that only British Nationals can apply. > > How does this not break the law on race relations and equality? I’d say it’s unlikely that Bill Bratten currently has the right to work in the UK, so the Home Secretary can stop him from getting any and all British jobs. However quitre a number of public sector jobs are ‘reserved’ and require British nationality, this is due to issues such as national security, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-ban-a-non-british-person-from-a-job/592885/4 "2011-08-16T12:15:43Z")
> [@Truffle](#): > > How does this not break the law on race relations and equality? Why would you think it has anything to do with laws on race relations or equality? It’s pretty common for citizens of a country to enjoy greater privileges than non-citizens. Here in America, f’rinstance, I can vote in public elections, and I can hold a job with the federal government. In American law, “non-citizen” is not a [protected class.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class) “National origin” is, but “national origin” != “citizenship.” I would imagine the situation is similar there across the pond. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-ban-a-non-british-person-from-a-job/592885/5 "2011-08-16T12:37:42Z")
> [@Truffle](#): > > Hi, > > Fist post here, and a recent news article had me wondering: > > U.S ‘SuperCop’ Bill Bratten has openly stated he would be very interested in taking the vacant position as Metropolitan Police Chief here in the UK. However he has been blocked from applying because the Home Secretary is adamant that only British Nationals can apply. > > How does this not break the law on race relations and equality? Apparently the majority of US Police Forces require Policemen to be citizens. I’m guessing you’ll find it is a common idea pretty much globally. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-ban-a-non-british-person-from-a-job/592885/6 "2011-08-16T12:39:19Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Why would you think it has anything to do with laws on race relations or equality? > > It’s pretty common for citizens of a country to enjoy greater privileges than non-citizens. Here in America, f’rinstance, I can vote in public elections, and I can hold a job with the federal government. In American law, “non-citizen” is not a [protected class.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class) “National origin” is, but “national origin” != “citizenship.” I would imagine the situation is similar there across the pond. Even here in the EU we don’t always get to vote in national elections of our neighbours. Here in Sweden I can vote in local elections (I also got to vote in the Euro-referendum) but not national ones. In my native UK Irish people can vote in national elections if they are resident in there. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-ban-a-non-british-person-from-a-job/592885/7 "2011-08-16T13:15:54Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Why would you think it has anything to do with laws on race relations or equality? > > It’s pretty common for citizens of a country to enjoy greater privileges than non-citizens. Here in America, f’rinstance, I can vote in public elections, and I can hold a job with the federal government. In American law, “non-citizen” is not a [protected class.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class) “National origin” is, but “national origin” != “citizenship.” I would imagine the situation is similar there across the pond. And even then there are still exceptions - I don’t care what’s a protected class, you have to be a natural-born citizen to be President. Naturalized persons need not apply. ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-ban-a-non-british-person-from-a-job/592885/8 "2011-08-17T00:06:02Z")
it’s easy to say “speak english” to a customer but saying “british accent only” is a lot harder. even gerry seinfeld takes time to take up an accent. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-ban-a-non-british-person-from-a-job/592885/9 "2011-08-17T01:49:05Z")
You have to be qualified to work in the UK. And… the UK equivalent of the immigration department does not have to accept any and all applications for residency / work permit / immigration, and the time taken to process any application may be so long that the job probably would be filled several times over - if that’s the way the government wants to play it. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-ban-a-non-british-person-from-a-job/592885/10 "2011-08-17T04:18:14Z")
There’s two issues here. The first is that Mr Bratten is presumably not an EU national, and doesn’t have a right of abode or a right to work in the UK. This would prevent him from taking up _any_ job in the UK, until he could get it sorted out with some kind of work visa or work permit. If he had a right to live and work in the UK then, for most jobs, UK and EU discrimination law would prevent an employer from excluding him merely on account of his US (or any non-UK) citizenship. (Strictly speaking, EU law only protects EU nationals in this regard, but once a job is open to the 27 or so differing EU nationalities, not much is gained by excluding non-EU nationals who have work permits, so employers rarely do.) However it is permitted to impose citizenship requirements for jobs in the public service. There’s some debate at the EU level over the extent to which a government can do this, with action being taken against governments which have imposed wide-ranging citizenship requirements for public sector employment. The European Court has held that a citizenship restriction can only be imposed where the job involves “the exercise of public authority and the responsibility for safeguarding the general interest of the state”. The UK, in fact, doesn’t make great use of the public service exception, but they do in relation to the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, which certainly involves “the exercise of public authority and the responsibility for safeguarding the general interest of the state”. Mr Bratten is welcome to apply to join the Metropolitan Police as a police officer. No citizenship requirement is imposed (though he will need a permanent right of residency in the UK, and in practice he won’t pass the security vetting requirements unless he has in fact been resident in the UK for three years). But he will have to be a UK citizen if he wants to become Commissioner. ---
**Author:** ![punch\_line\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e7dd6/32.png) [@punch\_line\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/punch_line_loser)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-ban-a-non-british-person-from-a-job/592885/11 "2011-08-17T06:10:00Z")
Yeah, note the word “only British nationals” as opposed to “not Americans.” ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-ban-a-non-british-person-from-a-job/592885/12 "2011-08-17T06:27:10Z")
> [@Truffle](#): > > How does this not break the law on race relations and equality? As other people have pointed out nationality is not a “protected” group under discrimination law. Under EU law it would not be possible to exclude him based on nationality IF he was from another EU country. But as he is not from the EU, it is not only legal but pretty common. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-ban-a-non-british-person-from-a-job/592885/13 "2011-08-18T03:52:49Z")
Just as a followup, anyone with a degree in an area in demand and/or 10 years in a specialised industry can pretty much get a work permit and residence in any country in the world if they have a sponsoring company or government body with a job offer lined up. Pay an immigration lawyer $2000 and ya done pretty much (have researched this for several countries for myself) Given Bill Brattons experience, getting a work permit and right of abode is not an issue, it’s purely down to the requirement for sensitive public offices requiring citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-ban-a-non-british-person-from-a-job/592885/14 "2011-08-18T18:38:05Z")
Can you imagine Bill Bratton standing in line at Lunar House? ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-ban-a-non-british-person-from-a-job/592885/15 "2011-08-18T18:49:55Z")
IIRC, a recent winner of the USA’s version of _Hell’s Kitchen_ was promised a job at a new restaurant in London - but was then told that she could not get the job as the UK government would not give her a work visa (I think the reason was along the lines of, “There are plenty of people in the UK who can be given the job” - note they do provide exceptions for performers and athletes (e.g. they won’t tell the cast of _Glee_ that they can’t tour in the UK as “we have plenty of vocal groups here who can perform”), but apparently being the winner of _Hell’s Kitchen_ doesn’t make you famous enough). ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-ban-a-non-british-person-from-a-job/592885/16 "2011-08-18T18:58:33Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > IIRC, a recent winner of the USA’s version of _Hell’s Kitchen_ was promised a job at a new restaurant in London - but was then told that she could not get the job as the UK government would not give her a work visa (I think the reason was along the lines of, “There are plenty of people in the UK who can be given the job” - note they do provide exceptions for performers and athletes (e.g. they won’t tell the cast of _Glee_ that they can’t tour in the UK as “we have plenty of vocal groups here who can perform”), but apparently being the winner of _Hell’s Kitchen_ doesn’t make you famous enough). I checked into a few schools in London for teaching math which most years would result in a work visa, but I was told that they wouldn’t sponsor me because with the economy so bad they have a glut of UK/QTS teachers. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-ban-a-non-british-person-from-a-job/592885/17 "2011-08-18T18:59:39Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Can you imagine Bill Bratton standing in line at Lunar House? Speaking as someone who’s had to stand in line there more than once, that would be a certain way of making sure he doesn’t take the job! ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-ban-a-non-british-person-from-a-job/592885/18 "2011-08-18T19:11:43Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I checked into a few schools in London for teaching math which most years would result in a work visa, but I was told that they wouldn’t sponsor me because with the economy so bad they have a glut of UK/QTS teachers. Not true for maths and sciences in inner London, but I get the impression, from overseas teachers I know working here, that the rules about what makes you a ‘teacher’ have got even stricter. A lot of American teachers wouldn’t be qualified enough. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-ban-a-non-british-person-from-a-job/592885/19 "2011-08-18T20:19:27Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Not true for maths and sciences in inner London, but I get the impression, from overseas teachers I know working here, that the rules about what makes you a ‘teacher’ have got even stricter. A lot of American teachers wouldn’t be qualified enough. But the problem is that the school needs to sponsor you for the work visa. It was nearly impossible to find a school in London that both had a Certificate of Sponsorship AND needed teachers. That and I’m not QTS because of being an “overseas trained teacher”. It would be great if one could get QTS status before emigrating. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-ban-a-non-british-person-from-a-job/592885/20 "2011-08-18T20:25:59Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Apparently the majority of US Police Forces require Policemen to be citizens. I’m guessing you’ll find it is a common idea pretty much globally. Heck, in St. Louis, MO, the police (including the chief) have to be residents of the city! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-ban-a-non-british-person-from-a-job/592885.md?page=2)