# How can we better prevent school shootings?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [December 14, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051 "2012-12-14T18:46:44Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 18
### Author:  [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/341 "2012-12-17T15:52:31Z")
I think we have a better chance of ending drug use in schools than school shootings and violence. But I’m feeling especially pessimistic today.
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/342 "2012-12-17T15:55:24Z")
> [@XT](#):
>
> The trouble is, unless you are given god like powers, it’s not going to happen. It’s simply not a political reality. Just like most of the other suggestions in this thread, especially those dreaming of gun control or gun bans or the like. In the end, we simply have to accept that bad things happen.
In other words, the gun fetishists won a long time ago; they can keep their guns and sit around fondling them and fantasizing they are “protecting our freedom”, while the rest of us pay the price for their fetish with a constant background slaughter whether we want to or not.
So no; we can’t stop school shooting or any other kind, because in America nothing, _nothing_, _nothing_ is more important than guns. We should put a gun on each kid’s grave and salute the gun - not the kid - to symbolize what they died for, and their relative importance in the scheme of things.
> [@XT](#):
>
> Kids die every day, and some small number are going to be killed in horrible things like this one. It’s a tragedy when any child dies, IMHO…but you can’t bubble wrap the world, and you can’t prevent all bad things from happening.
:rolleyes: By that logic we might as well allow the private ownership of nuclear weapons because hey; you can’t “bubble wrap the world”. Because not letting hundreds of millions of weapons flood through society is so terribly unreasonable that it’s “bubble wrapping the world”.
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### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2012, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/343 "2012-12-17T16:07:34Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
By that logic we might as well allow the private ownership of nuclear weapons because hey; you can’t “bubble wrap the world”. Because not letting hundreds of millions of weapons flood through society is so terribly unreasonable that it’s “bubble wrapping the world”
[/QUOTE]
😛 Yeah, that’s not an over the top and ridiculous response there! No sir…not an idiotic argument at all.
Tell you what…when your hyperbole gets to simply be 2 orders of magnitude out of whack, come back and we’ll talk about nuclear weapons. Until then, keep on keepin on many…fight the power and all that.
> [@](#):
>
> So no; we can’t stop school shooting or any other kind, because in America nothing, nothing, nothing is more important than guns. We should put a gun on each kid’s grave and salute the gun - not the kid - to symbolize what they died for, and their relative importance in the scheme of things.
Since more kids die from alcohol, does that mean that it trumps guns, and that ‘in American nothing, nothing, nothing is more important’ than booze? Your rhetoric is so ridiculous that it’s comical.
> [@](#):
>
> In other words, the gun fetishists won a long time ago; they can keep their guns and sit around fondling them and fantasizing they are “protecting our freedom”, while the rest of us pay the price for their fetish with a constant background slaughter whether we want to or not.
😛
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/344 "2012-12-17T16:13:12Z")
> [@XT](#):
>
> 😛 Yeah, that’s not an over the top and ridiculous response there! No sir…not an idiotic argument at all.
As opposed to your argument that guns are an irresistible force that nothing can be done about, so all we can do is sit back and take it? And your argument that preventing the easy availability of weaponry is “bubble wrapping the world” isn’t ridiculous?
> [@XT](#):
>
> Since more kids die from alcohol, does that mean that it trumps guns, and that ‘in American nothing, nothing, nothing is more important’ than booze?
When people talk like booze is the only thing standing between us being taken over by the atheistic satanic Muslim New World Order then your analogy will work. And when all booze is weaponized.
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### Author:  [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/345 "2012-12-17T16:15:55Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#):
>
> It is you. I grew up with guns and my father obsessive about gun safety. I could shoot as much as I wanted from a young age as long as I followed the rules.
I can come back and claim **it was you** and your specific situation in which your dad had it in him to act as an authority and a judge of your cognitive abilities to handle deadly weapon. Rules is just one part of it – you cannot be trusted to evaluate your abilities – so, in a way, he acted as a professional in the field.
On another note, it’s kinda funny - in US, you cannot drink until you are 21 but you can handle a deadly weapon _as long as you followed the rules_ way before 21.
Anyways, it’s a moot point - let’s agree to disagree.
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### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/346 "2012-12-17T16:16:45Z")
**Der Trihs** , you want to live in a country where it’s almost impossible to legally own a gun? I’ll pay your relocation costs\*. The only catch is that we flip a coin, and you move either to Australia or Mexico.
\*disclaimer: offer made for rhetorical purposes, not a binding contract.
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### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/347 "2012-12-17T16:24:06Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
As opposed to your argument that guns are an irresistible force that nothing can be done about, so all we can do is sit back and take it? And your argument that preventing the easy availability of weaponry is “bubble wrapping the world” isn’t ridiculous?
[/QUOTE]
The political reality is that a majority of Americans favor personal ownership of guns. A large percentage of the population owns them. You can’t change that by whining about it, or wishing it was different, or fantasizing that it’s different. It’s not. As with other things (most more deadly than guns, despite your ridiculous over the top hyperbole and rantage), we as a society have determined that some risks are worth taking. We allow people to purchase and use alcohol. We allow people to purchase and use tobacco. We have put in laws to regulate both things, and there are laws on the books to try and mitigate abuse, but in the end by allowing the things we acknowledge that a non-zero number of people ARE going to die or be harmed through it’s use. Same goes with guns.
That you can’t understand this argument and that it’s ridiculous to you merely shows how out of touch with reality you are…and how poor you are at rationally assessing the actual dangers of guns in our society from a risk perspective, and seeing that they aren’t the boogie man you THINK they are.
> [@](#):
>
> When people talk like booze is the only thing standing between us being taken over by the atheistic satanic Muslim New World Order then your analogy will work. And when all booze is weaponized.
When guns kill or injure as many people as alcohol does each year, then you might have a point. World wide, alcohol kills or injures more than people yearly than all of the current wars going on…including those going on in Syria. Again, your rhetoric is ridiculous…you are talking about a small whacked out percentage of all gun owners in the US who are even close to your strawman, verse the realities of the situation. You can’t bubble wrap the country and remove all risk from every facet of our lives. You can’t do it politically, and you can’t do it realistically. You can (and we ARE doing so) mitigate some of the risks…and that’s why I don’t oppose gun regulation or registration. Certainly no one sane opposes crime laws for the illegal use of a gun. We HAVE those things ALREADY though, and while we might be able to tweak them a bit, I doubt you are going to see any difference in tragic incidents like the one that sparked this thread. Gun crime is ALREADY going down, and off the wall incidents like this simply happen periodically…and there is really nothing we can do about them except to mourn the dead and move on with our lives.
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### Author:  [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/348 "2012-12-17T16:42:12Z")
> [@XT](#):
>
> Gun crime is ALREADY going down, and off the wall incidents like this simply happen periodically…and there is really nothing we can do about them except to mourn the dead and move on with our lives.
Well, if this guy’s nutty mother wasn’t permitted to own a collection of semi-automatic, large capacity magazine weapons in the first place and the kid had to use the hunting rifle and shotgun he left in the car then I bet there’d be a lot fewer dead kids being buried today.
But you are of course right - nothing is going to be done - nothing can be done given the cultural and constitutional place of guns in the USA. It really would be better if you all stopped with the shocked hand-wringing every time something like this happens becasue in a few weeks or months time it’ll happen again. And again and again.
Just put a whole lot of money into mental health services for people like this kid and his mother.
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/349 "2012-12-17T16:47:59Z")
> [@Lumpy](#):
>
> **Der Trihs** , you want to live in a country where it’s almost impossible to legally own a gun? I’ll pay your relocation costs\*. The only catch is that we flip a coin, and you move either to Australia or Mexico.
I’m not interested in leaving the people I know, nor is it that easy to just immigrate somewhere. And Mexico is flooded with guns by America; the US’s gun fetish makes it the armory for criminals all over the Americas. They too pay the price for the gun fetishist’s self indulgence.
> [@XT](#):
>
> The political reality is that a majority of Americans favor personal ownership of guns. A large percentage of the population owns them. You can’t change that by whining about it, or wishing it was different, or fantasizing that it’s different. It’s not.
Which I already said. The gun fetishists will keep their guns, and the slaughter will go on and on and on and on for decades to come.
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/350 "2012-12-17T16:55:08Z")
> [@tagos](#):
>
> Well, if this guy’s nutty mother wasn’t permitted to own a collection of semi-automatic, large capacity magazine weapons in the first place and the kid had to use the hunting rifle and shotgun he left in the car then I bet there’d be a lot fewer dead kids being buried today.
Cite for any evidence that the mother was “nutty”? Hint: the fact that she lawfully owned guns is not evidence of being “nutty”.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/351 "2012-12-17T16:56:46Z")
> [@Lumpy](#):
>
> **Der Trihs** , you want to live in a country where it’s almost impossible to legally own a gun? I’ll pay your relocation costs\*. The only catch is that we flip a coin, and you move either to Australia or Mexico.
>
> \*disclaimer: offer made for rhetorical purposes, not a binding contract.
Murica-Love It or Leave It!
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### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/352 "2012-12-17T16:59:16Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> Cite for any evidence that the mother was “nutty”? Hint: the fact that she lawfully owned guns is not evidence of being “nutty”.
He might want to take a look at the actual rifle that this guy left behind in the car as well before placing any large bets on how many fewer kids would have been dead had he taken it with him. Also, on how quickly (and horrifying deadly at close quarters) a shot gun can be reloaded by someone with even a basic familiarity of how they work.
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### Author:  [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/353 "2012-12-17T17:01:02Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> Cite for any evidence that the mother was “nutty”? Hint: the fact that she lawfully owned guns is not evidence of being “nutty”.
Hint. Tooling yourself up for when civilisation collapses is a sure sign. Another sure sign is teaching a clearly disturbed kid how to use them. A third sign is not having your damn guns securely locked in a keypad locked case when asleep when you have a disturbed young man around.
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### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/354 "2012-12-17T17:01:54Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> I’m not interested in leaving the people I know, nor is it that easy to just immigrate somewhere. And Mexico is flooded with guns by America; the US’s gun fetish makes it the armory for criminals all over the Americas. They too pay the price for the gun fetishist’s self indulgence.
>
> Which I already said. The gun fetishists will keep their guns, and the slaughter will go on and on and on and on for decades to come.
Yeah…and anyone else would be embarrassed they had said something so inane and stupid. You, however, take it as a point of pride, obviously, so I’ll simply shake my head, roll my eyes and let you get on with that warm glow of satisfaction you feel over it. 😛
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### Author:  [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/355 "2012-12-17T17:06:38Z")
> [@tagos](#):
>
> Hint. Tooling yourself up for when civilisation collapses is a sure sign. Another sure sign is teaching a clearly disturbed kid how to use them. A third sign is not having your damn guns securely locked in a keypad locked case when asleep when you have a disturbed young man around.
Cite for your claim that she was “tooling [herself] up for when civilisation collapses”? Cite for your claim that Lanza was so clearly disturbed that she should have known not to teach him to shoot? Cite for her being asleep when Lanza killed her with those guns?
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### Author:  [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/356 "2012-12-17T17:14:32Z")
> [@Kolga](#):
>
> Cite for your claim that she was “tooling [herself] up for when civilisation collapses”? Cite for your claim that Lanza was so clearly disturbed that she should have known not to teach him to shoot? Cite for her being asleep when Lanza killed her with those guns?
Look. If you can’t be bothered to keep up with the news I can’t do your reading for you.
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### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/357 "2012-12-17T17:15:30Z")
> [@tagos](#):
>
> Look. If you can’t be bothered to keep up with the news I can’t do your reading for you.
So, no cite?
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### Author:  [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/358 "2012-12-17T17:39:23Z")
> [@tagos](#):
>
> Look. If you can’t be bothered to keep up with the news I can’t do your reading for you.
I’ve read plenty, but precious little information that can be verified. So far, it’s been a bunch of speculation, and rumor, and interviews with random friends and acquaintances.
> [@XT](#):
>
> So, no cite?
😃
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/359 "2012-12-17T17:43:22Z")
> [@jtgain](#):
>
> We agreed up until this. You can certainly loan your car to your born-again Christian neighbor with a perfect driving record who never drinks or uses drugs. If he gets into an “his fault” accident, you had no knowledge or reason to suspect he would do something irresponsible with your vehicle. You are not liable for negligent entrustment.
See following post. Also, I was talking about _existing_ law with **Kolga** rather than my proposal.
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### Author:  [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/360 "2012-12-17T17:45:56Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> Cite for any evidence that the mother was “nutty”? Hint: the fact that she lawfully owned guns is not evidence of being “nutty”.
What do you think of [this news story](http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/mother-of-sandy-hook-gunman-adam-lanza-was-a-gun-obsessive-living-in-fear-of-societys-collapse-16251468.html) ?
> [@](#):
>
> Her sister-in-law Marsha Lanza told reporters at her Illinois home that her gun-obsessed relative was part of the ‘prepper’ movement that fears an economic collapse will lead to a breakdown in society.
>
> “She prepared for the worst,” Ms Lanza said.
>
> “Last time we visited her in person, we talked about prepping — are you ready for what could happen down the line, when the economy collapses?”
>
> Nancy Lanza (52) had five registered firearms, had begun stockpiling food and taught Adam how to shoot.
It would be a leap to claim this nuttiness caused the killing spree, but how can you claim she wasn’t “nutty”? Perhaps her views are inculcated by cable TV shows, but does that mean they’re not nutty?
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