# How can we better prevent school shootings?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [December 14, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051 "2012-12-14T18:46:44Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 20
### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2012, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/381 "2012-12-18T09:41:06Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#):
>
> 1. Change had to come from within. The NRA and gun folks need to take ownership of the problem in a grassroots way. They need to change the general attitude about guns so that there is a very strong stigma within their community to treating guns irresponsibly. And they should be heavily investing in resources to educate people about respect for guns and making the process of obtaining a gun one that inherently requires some integrity and character.
Never happen. They and their allies are completely amoral, and have zero concern for the slaughter caused by their gun fetish. They aren’t going to try to solve the problem because they don’t regard people being killed _as_ a problem. They care about guns, and only guns; everyone and everything else is expendable.
> [@jackdavinci](#):
>
> 1. There should be more resources for mental health, especially for the poor, and a campaign to make some of those resources considered to be maintenance resources for “normal” folks.
That would be Evil Socialism and is unacceptable in America.
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### Author:  [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2012, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/382 "2012-12-18T10:27:55Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#):
>
> 1. Change had to come from within. The NRA and gun folks need to take ownership of the problem in a grassroots way. They need to change the general attitude about guns so that there is a very strong stigma within their community to treating guns irresponsibly. And they should be heavily investing in resources to educate people about respect for guns and making the process of obtaining a gun one that inherently requires some integrity and character.
Other than the last part (which I’m afraid I’d need some practical details for) I don’t think these would have a significant impact. I know a few people have mentioned mandatory gun safety classes to receive a permit and the like, but gun safety isn’t a major issue in the US. There are only about 600 accidental deaths per year due to firearms. By way of comparison, more people are killed per year by swimming pools or by slipping and falling on the floor. Given how many households contain guns, it’s an amazingly low number.
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### Author:  [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2012, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/383 "2012-12-18T10:55:21Z")
> [@RickJay](#):
>
> One of the most important features of those insurgencies - a point that has been studied, dissected, and discussed by every person doing serious analysis on them - is how the rifle is far LESS important to the insurgent than expected. The weapons they have used to great effect are hidden bombs and RPGs.
Mortars, too. Can’t really aim them for shit for the most part, and mortars aren’t the most surgical of weapons to begin with, but they fire enough of the suckers to get on the good side of statistics once in a while.
I’m not sure about Afghanistan (much less Afghanistan back in the Cold War), but rebels/insurgents in Lybia, Syria, Egypt, Mali… are also extremely fond of technicals - get a beat-up 4x4 Toyota truck, mount something large and deadly on the flatbed - be it an old anti-aircraft gun, an APC turret, a rusty rocket pod yanked off a helicopter, a recoilless rifle… plumbing pipe fed with dodgy UXOs… - party time.
Most of that stuff is nicked from abandoned military bases, tank graveyards, wreckage of past wars and the like, none of which are all that common in the rural US.
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### Author:  [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2012, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/384 "2012-12-18T11:40:44Z")
[I have opened a thread in GQ listing weapons for private use, that serve the stated pro-gun purposes.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=675948) They are perfectly servicable for the defence of self and property. They are, however, almost impossibly to abuse by people who want to commit crimes or go on killing sprees.
I am curious how gun enthusiasts will respond to this viable alternative. My sad guess is that they will ignore it, because “it just feels good to hold a fire arm”.
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### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2012, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/385 "2012-12-18T14:00:37Z")
> [@Sleeping\_Synapse](#):
>
> Only fretful people possess weapons of death. ‘Gun culture’ is a byword for ‘fear culture’.
This is like saying if you have a fire extinguisher in your home, you have a morbid fear of fire.
> [@](#):
>
> Address the fear Americans have that propagates the desire for the power to end life with a mere squeeze of a trigger and you’re well on the way to arresting the so-called gun culture.
I subscribe to my police department’s online crime reports for my neighborhood. Within a five block radius of my house\* a burglary or car theft takes place almost every week, and an assault or robbery on the street once a month on average. There’s a difference between “fear” and “cognizance of danger”.
\*And my neighborhood is the “safe” one compared to much of the Northside!
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### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2012, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/386 "2012-12-18T14:02:18Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#):
>
> So our focus needs to shift to two main areas:
>
> 1. Change had to come from within. The NRA and gun folks need to take ownership of the problem in a grassroots way. They need to change the general attitude about guns so that there is a very strong stigma within their community to treating guns irresponsibly. And they should be heavily investing in resources to educate people about respect for guns and making the process of obtaining a gun one that inherently requires some integrity and character.
>
> 2. There should be more resources for mental health, especially for the poor, and a campaign to make some of those resources considered to be maintenance resources for “normal” folks.
I heartily endorse this.
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### Author:  [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2012, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/387 "2012-12-18T14:12:20Z")
One of the best ways is for the media to quit drooling and wanking over it for days and days ad nauseam. Part of the attraction of doing it is the “going out in a burst of glory”, so to speak. If that glory is not there, part of the attraction is not there, either.
Of course, that would require the media to act in a responsible manner and turn away from the “if it bleeds, it leads” mentality, and that ain’t gonna happen.
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### Author:  [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/388 "2012-12-18T14:32:17Z")
Of course. The media should ignore stories involving 20 children being ripped apart over the course of two minutes because it makes the poor, poor gun owners look bad.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/389 "2012-12-18T14:51:35Z")
> [@Lumpy](#):
>
> This is like saying if you have a fire extinguisher in your home, you have a morbid fear of fire.
Not really. Owning a fire extinguisher doesn’t _create_ a risk as significant as the one it is designed to deal with.
> [@Jack\_Batty](#):
>
> Of course. The media should ignore stories involving 20 children being ripped apart over the course of two minutes because it makes the poor, poor gun owners look bad.
That’s unfair. He didn’t say anything about making gun owners look bad, and a number of psychologists have made the same point.
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### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2012, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/390 "2012-12-18T14:52:34Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#):
>
> Of course. The media should ignore stories involving 20 children being ripped apart over the course of two minutes because it makes the poor, poor gun owners look bad.
No, just don’t glorify the killer as some sort of supervillian Terminator.
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### Author:  [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2012, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/391 "2012-12-18T14:56:09Z")
> [@jsc1953](#):
>
> There are some crimes that are so monstrous, so horrible, that statistics are meaningless – that if it happened once, that is once too many. I think Newtown falls into that category. It’s an opportunity for us as a society to step back and think about our priorties.
>
> IMHO: there are always going to be loonies amongst us, who might snap and attempt to commit random acts of horrific violence. We can do all that we can to identify and help these people. We should also do all that we can to make sure they can’t just open their parents closet and get all the guns they need to kill all the people they want. This is how most of the civilized world works, in a lot of countries that we would all consider to be “free”.
>
> So: repeal the 2nd amendment. Ban private ownership of handguns. Ban semi-automatic rifles. If a loonie takes grandpa’s bolt action hunting rifle with him to shoot up a school or workplace – we have a much better chance of spotting him before he gets too far, and/or stopping him before he’s done too much harm.
I think this is troubling. I think there is an argument to be made that one ought NOT base public policy on responses to “unusual” - tho dramatic - occurrances.
Heck, 9/11 was monstrous as all hell. But I, for one, would prefer living today in a society that had said, “That’s all you’ve got?”, levelled whatever Al Quaida and supporters we could identify in Afghanistan and elsewhere, and gotten on our merry way.
Increased government intrusions post 9/11 were a large factor in my conversion from anti- to pro- private gun ownership. I would be extremely disheartened if we as a society willingly cast of yet mor liberties in a desire to be more “safe”.
As someone said, 20-50 shootings a year are insignificant, and a poor basis for major policy changes.
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### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2012, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/392 "2012-12-18T14:56:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> Not really. Owning a fire extinguisher doesn’t _create_ a risk as significant as the one it is designed to deal with.
I thought we were talking about the psychology of gun owners, not the utility or dysutility of guns.
> [@](#):
>
> Originally Posted by **Sleeping Synaps** e
> Only fretful people possess weapons of death. ‘Gun culture’ is a byword for ‘fear culture’.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/393 "2012-12-18T15:10:17Z")
Fair enough. For what it’s worth, I agree with the second part of that quote, though not the first.
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### Author:  [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/394 "2012-12-18T15:15:31Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#):
>
> I think the strongest argument that gun control will ultimately need to be replaced with other solutions is that ubiquitous 3D printing is inevitable and virtually unregulatable
I suspect that this will not be a realistic option. Although a different technology, commercial, high resolution printers cannot be used to counterfeit currency today. Similar technology will be developed to prohibit 3D printing of weapons or patented/copyrighted/proprietary designs.
Think of something like a computer virus scanner that checks 3D design files for prohibited patterns. It won’t be the gun control lobby fighting this, it will be every manufacturer with a product that could be pirated. Of course, when we get to 3D scanners or matter replicators, all bets are off…
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### Author:  [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/395 "2012-12-18T15:29:23Z")
> [@jasg](#):
>
> Of course, when we get to 3D scanners or matter replicators, all bets are off…
You can have my matter replicator when you pry it from my cold, dead, digitally-reconstructed hands.
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### Author:  [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/396 "2012-12-18T15:31:01Z")
> [@Lumpy](#):
>
> No, just don’t glorify the killer as some sort of supervillian Terminator.
Glorified? I’m seriously baffled by that statement. I have no idea where you get that this asshole - or any of these assholes - are being glorified.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/397 "2012-12-18T15:34:18Z")
I haven’t really watched the coverage of this incident because… well, because I really don’t find it interesting, or something. However, the Aurora movie theater guy was definitely presented as some sort of unstoppable badass.
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### Author:  [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/398 "2012-12-18T15:44:47Z")
No he was presented as a guy with a gun in combat gear killing people. I would venture to bet you could find no media outlet that ran the article, “Unstoppable Bad-ass Kills 12.”
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### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/399 "2012-12-18T15:53:30Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#):
>
> Glorified? I’m seriously baffled by that statement. I have no idea where you get that this asshole - or any of these assholes - are being glorified.
I couldn’t think of a better word, I did not mean that anyone was praising him. More like “giving him notoriety”, “making him larger than life”.
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### Author:  [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-better-prevent-school-shootings/644051/400 "2012-12-18T16:18:41Z")
Then again, what would you like? For the news to report, “20 children were killed today - by no one in particular, and in no particular way. Now here’s Chet with the weather.”
If the shit he did is notable and larger than life - and I’d say massacring 20 little kids with several rifle shots a piece is pretty fucking notable - why is reporting it as notable and larger than life wrong? Those are the facts of the story.
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