# How can we eliminate eliminiationism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 25, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-eliminate-eliminiationism/511553 "2009-09-25T18:42:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-eliminate-eliminiationism/511553/1 "2009-09-25T18:42:42Z")
[Eliminationism:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliminationism) > [@](#): > > Eliminationism is the belief that one’s political opponents are not just wrongheaded, misinformed or even acting in bad faith but that they are a cancer on the body politic that must be excised — either by separation from the public at large, through censorship or by outright extermination — in order to protect the purity of the nation.[1] > > The 1996 history book Hitler’s Willing Executioners by Daniel Goldhagen posits that ordinary Germans not only knew about, but also supported, the Holocaust because of a unique and virulent “eliminationist antisemitism” in the German identity, which had developed in the preceding centuries. This is a vice that crops up among extremists of all stripes at various times and places. Within living memory, the American countercultural-radical left of the 1960s and '70s was prone to it. (“If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem!”) In America at present, however, the right wing pretty much owns it. Excerpt from: [_The Eliminationists: How Hate Talk Radicalized the American Right,_](http://www.progressivebookclub.com/blog/2009/07/02/excerpt-the-eliminationists-by-david-neiwert/) by David Niewert. > [@](#): > > Shortly after John McCain’s second debate appearance with Barack Obama on October 7, 2008—a debate most observers thought Obama won handily—Republican officials from his campaign told reporters they intended to mount a more aggressive series of attacks against the Democratic front-runner, who was widening his lead in the polls. According to the Washington Post, they believed that “to win in November they must shift the conversation back to questions about the Democrat’s judgment, honesty and personal associations.” > > Within days, McCain and his running mate, Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, began aggressively attacking Obama for his past associations with radical leftist William Ayers and his supposed lack of trustworthiness. Palin accused Obama of “palling around with terrorists,” while McCain told a crowd, “We’ve all heard what he’s said. But it’s less clear what he’s done, or what he will do.” > > The anger stirred up at these rallies became palpable in concrete ways. At one Palin rally, the governor was blaming the media for a series of disastrous television network interviews she had recently given. At one point, supporters began turning on members of the press crew in attendance, even haranguing a camera crew covering the event. One Palin backer turned viciously on a black member of the TV crew and told him, “Sit down, boy!” Attendees at McCain rallies began shouting out “Terrorist!” when Obama’s name was mentioned, and one attendee reportedly shouted out “Kill him!” when Palin was describing Ayers’s ties to Obama (though the Secret Service later insisted the report was unfounded). A camera crew at a Palin rally in Ohio interviewed some of the people attending and came away with a series of chilling remarks: > > I’m afraid if he wins, the blacks will take over. He’s not a Christian! This is a Christian nation! What is our country gonna end up like? > > He’s related to a known terrorist, for one. > > He must support terrorists! You know, uh, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck. And that to me is Obama. > > Obama and his wife, I’m concerned that they could be anti-white. That he might hide that. > > I don’t like the fact that he thinks us white people are trash . . . because we’re not! > > When Obama confronted McCain about this kind of rhetoric at their third and final debate on October 15, McCain demurred that he consistently decried this kind of talk from his campaign, and he defended his supporters “categorically” as “the most dedicated, patriotic men and women that are in this nation.” Then he went on not only to dredge up the William Ayers association again but also to accuse Obama of aiding and abetting a community-activist group, ACORN—which had been recently in the news over irregularities involving its voter-registration efforts. He said ACORN was “maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history in this country, maybe destroying the fabric of democracy.” > > Almost overnight, ACORN offices at various locales around the country were vandalized. A community activist in Cleveland received an email warning that she was “going to have her life ended,” and an ACORN staffer in Rhode Island got a phoned-in death threat complete with racial epithets. Voice mails came pouring in, too: > > Hi, I was just calling to let you all know that Barack Obama needs to get hung. He’s a fucking nigger, and he’s a piece of shit. You guys are fraudulent, and you need to go to hell. All the niggers on oak trees. They’re gonna get all hung, honeys, they’re gonna get assassinated, they’re gonna get killed. > > You liberal idiots. Dumb shits. Welfare bums. You guys just fucking come to our country, consume every natural resource there is, and make a lot of babies. That’s all you guys do. And then suck up the welfare and expect everyone else to pay for your hospital bills for your kids. I just say let your kids die. That’s the best move. Just let your children die. Forget about paying for hospital bills for them. I’m not gonna do it. You guys are lowlifes. And I hope you all die. > > Then there were the emails like this one: > > You blue gums are not going to steal the election. > > All of you porch monkeys need to go back to Africa. > > McCain and Palin shortly began ratcheting back their rhetoric, especially after polls showed that such tactics were losing rather than gaining votes. But the fuse had been lit: threats and intimidating behavior continued to be reported around the country. In Ohio, a barn covered with pro-Obama signs was vandalized twice, the first time with racial epithets. In Sacramento, vandals scrawled “White Power,” “KKK” and “Nigger” over the front of a large homemade Obama display. In Idaho Falls, a large Obama sign had a Nazi swastika painted on it. In Tennessee, two neo-Nazi “skinheads” were arrested for plotting to assassinate Obama; according to federal agents, they planned to kill 102 black people in a murderous spree that would culminate in a suicidal attack on Obama. > > As of the date of this writing, nothing indicated that the election’s outcome would put this fuse out. Indeed, the Southern Poverty Law Center reported that it had recorded more than 200 hate-related incidents sparked by Obama’s election in the weeks immediately following. > > These seemingly disparate incidents—the shooting in Kentucky and the increase of hateful speech in the campaign—received prominent coverage in the national news, but few noted the deep and significant connection between them. After all, what does yet another random “lone wolf” shooting spree in a public venue have to do with election-year rhetoric on the presidential campaign trail? > > What connects them is that they are both manifestations of one of the most troubling aspects of modern American politics: the impulse to demonize our political adversaries, and the consequences of that demonization on our discourse and our body politic. This impulse has coursed through American politics since its beginnings, and it certainly exists on all sides of the nation’s political aisles today. > > But more particularly, both episodes reflect a trend that has manifested itself with increasing intensity in the past decade: the positing of elimination as the solution to political disagreement. Rather than engaging in a dialogue over political and cultural issues, one side simply dehumanizes its opponents and suggests, and at times demands, their excision. This tendency is almost singularly peculiar to the American Right. It manifests itself in many venues: on radio talk shows and in political speeches, in bestselling books and babbling blogs. Most of all, we can feel it on the ground: in our everyday lives, in our encounters, big and small, with each other. [Interview with Niewert.](http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/140578) [Another relevant link.](http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/4946) Like the old Weather Underground, Symbionese Liberation Army, etc., the eliminationists of today’s radical right represent represent no real existential threat to our society, but still could cause a lot of damage, like Timothy McVeigh did. And, while a minority, they are probably more numerous than the dangerous left-radicals ever were – and they have stronger implicit endorsement from relatively mainstream voices, such as the GOP and RW talk show hosts. What, if anything, can be done about this? ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-eliminate-eliminiationism/511553/2 "2009-09-25T21:40:56Z")
This will probably sound like a dumb answer, but I think the only way everybody will calm the eff down is if Obama does another one of his inspirational coming-together speeches, like he did during his campaign when Wright became an issue. I only think he can do that because we don’t have any other prominent people to look up to. There are no civil rights leaders like MLK anymore. The most influential people right now are the ones with radio shows and TV pundit shows, and they’re generally the ones propagating this stuff. Granted, I think if Fox News and Rush went away and nobody replaced them, a lot of the vitriol would go away with it, but there’s no realistic way to expect that to happen, when ignorance and hate have always been pretty profitable industries. I guess it’d be nice if Billy Graham or one of the religious leaders stepped up and told the populous to cool it. I think the problem stems from the fact that human nature likes to default to tribalism. Consider how easy it is for fans of Sports Team A to flat out despite fans of Sports Team B, and then transpose that into a forum like politics where it’s easy to inflate the stakes to life and death. Political Party A wants to kill your grandma. Oh yeah? Well, Political Party B wants to kill your mother, and your pet goldfish! Kill Political Party B! ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-eliminate-eliminiationism/511553/3 "2009-09-25T22:01:12Z")
At least we are doing better than Germany right? People who don’t like to think too much are drawn to philosophies with very simple solutions. On the right you have people thinking that all their problems will be solved if the blacks and Muslims would go away. On the left you have people thinking that everything will be solved if we defeat the evil corporations, or the shadow government behind it all. I think freedom of speech will keep eliminationsim in its corner as a radical and misguided philosophy. Without freedom of speech you have only bad views (i.e. German holocaust). With free speech you have both bad and good views, which so far has kept the really bad views in check. Regardless of what people may think about the public’s intelligence, people are good at making choices when they are presented with intelligent alternatives. It’s when they only hear only bad arguments that things get out of control. So as long as people continue to speak out against the hate speech of Fox and friends, I think we’ll be fine. Glenn Beck called Obama a racist and lost half his advertising revenue. The GOP is the minority party and it’s lunatic base is shrinking everyday. There are real political consequences to embracing the logic of Hannity and Limbaugh, and as long as that is true I think everything will be OK. I feel bad for the few people who died because of this nonsense, but there isn’t anything we can do except continue to elect Democrats until Republican politicians stop embracing this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-eliminate-eliminiationism/511553/4 "2009-09-25T22:20:36Z")
Re-education camps seem like a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-eliminate-eliminiationism/511553/5 "2009-09-25T22:48:04Z")
Just commenting on the title: An old joke I used to use was: You know who I hate? Bigots. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-eliminate-eliminiationism/511553/6 "2009-09-25T23:18:41Z")
Cut off the heads of the movement and let the rest of the body starve to death. It would be nice if once, just once, the crazies went and did something good for liberals. In general, Republicans and conservatives now are so hateful they’ll turn anything uncivil and hateful into a positive. They rallied behind Wilson by refusing to condemn him and he’s even raising money off of it. Beck and Limbaugh, despite lying all the time and being racist pricks, still draw in lots of viewers. Real Americans, and I mean that in every sense of the word, are fighting against an ignorant horde too stupid to know how stupid and evil it is. That’s why I don’t see it dying off by simply ignoring it. Sane people will have to do something to stop it, what that is I dont know ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-eliminate-eliminiationism/511553/7 "2009-09-25T23:56:35Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > In general, Republicans and conservatives now are so hateful they’ll turn anything uncivil and hateful into a positive. They rallied behind Wilson by refusing to condemn him and he’s even raising money off of it. Beck and Limbaugh, despite lying all the time and being racist pricks, still draw in lots of viewers. Real Americans, and I mean that in every sense of the word, are fighting against an ignorant horde too stupid to know how stupid and evil it is. That’s why I don’t see it dying off by simply ignoring it. Sane people will have to do something to stop it, what that is I dont know Looks like we have a long way to go… ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-eliminate-eliminiationism/511553/8 "2009-09-26T01:10:27Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Cut off the heads of the movement and let the rest of the body starve to death. It would be nice if once, just once, the crazies went and did something good for liberals. > > In general, Republicans and conservatives now are so hateful they’ll turn anything uncivil and hateful into a positive. They rallied behind Wilson by refusing to condemn him and he’s even raising money off of it. Beck and Limbaugh, despite lying all the time and being racist pricks, still draw in lots of viewers. Real Americans, and I mean that in every sense of the word, are fighting against an ignorant horde too stupid to know how stupid and evil it is. That’s why I don’t see it dying off by simply ignoring it. Sane people will have to do something to stop it, what that is I dont know Did you read the OP? Specifically this part: > [@](#): > > Eliminationism is the belief that one’s political opponents are not just wrongheaded, misinformed or even acting in bad faith but that they are a cancer on the body politic that must be excised… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-eliminate-eliminiationism/511553/9 "2009-09-26T03:08:43Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > Consider how easy it is for fans of Sports Team A to flat out despite fans of Sports Team B, and then transpose that into a forum like politics where it’s easy to inflate the stakes to life and death. [It’s an old story . . .](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nika_riots) ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-eliminate-eliminiationism/511553/10 "2009-09-26T05:25:42Z")
Well, if eliminating eliminationism by eliminating the eliminationists (try saying that five times fast) is off the table, as naturally it should be, then I think the best thing that can probably be done is improve the quality of life for as many people as possible. Fear is what drives the polarization; not just fear of liberals, or “socialists,” or terrorists, but fear of losing one’s home, one’s job, one’s family. When you’re stressing about how to make ends meet, scapegoats are welcome, and for many eliminationists the President and so-called “socialists” are as good a scapegoat as any. The problem with that is, at least in my opinion quality of life is achieved by the very social programs that folks are speaking out the hardest against. An effective UHC program, for example, would help a great many people, either by giving them healthcare they didn’t have before or by lowering their actual healthcare expenses. Easing both health and financial concerns would go a long way toward easing the formless fears people have and would reduce the need for scapegoats and thus polarization. But with so much vocal opposition, the likelihood of something reasonable being worked out is low. Of course, that’s all supposition on my part. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-eliminate-eliminiationism/511553/11 "2009-09-26T20:01:38Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > Just commenting on the title: > > An old joke I used to use was: You know who I hate? Bigots. I prefer: **DEATH TO ALL FANATICS!** ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-eliminate-eliminiationism/511553/12 "2009-09-26T20:04:55Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Well, if eliminating eliminationism by eliminating the eliminationists (try saying that five times fast) is off the table, as naturally it should be, then I think the best thing that can probably be done is improve the quality of life for as many people as possible. Fear is what drives the polarization; not just fear of liberals, or “socialists,” or terrorists, but fear of losing one’s home, one’s job, one’s family. When you’re stressing about how to make ends meet, scapegoats are welcome, and for many eliminationists the President and so-called “socialists” are as good a scapegoat as any. > > The problem with that is, at least in my opinion quality of life is achieved by the very social programs that folks are speaking out the hardest against. An effective UHC program, for example, would help a great many people, either by giving them healthcare they didn’t have before or by lowering their actual healthcare expenses. Easing both health and financial concerns would go a long way toward easing the formless fears people have and would reduce the need for scapegoats and thus polarization. But with so much vocal opposition, the likelihood of something reasonable being worked out is low. > > Of course, that’s all supposition on my part. But, it points up a strange and important fact: Even people who are **not** immediately threatened with loss of job, home or family can still feel in some sense threatened, and even driven to eliminationist fanatacism, by such things as gay marriage or the progressive secularization of American society or nonwhites in positions of power or the perception that their tax dollars are going to subsidize the breeding of lazy inferiors. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-eliminate-eliminiationism/511553/13 "2009-09-26T20:09:02Z")
This is what happens when you develop a culture in which the government is seen to be the source of wealth and security for all. You politicize everything. You turn people against each other as they squabble over the spoils of government. You take what used to be private decisions and you make them public. You entangle everyone. When everyone is everyone else’s keeper, you have constant conflict. It’s not going to get better. It’s going to get worse. It takes a village to create hordes of villagers with torches and pitchforks. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-eliminate-eliminiationism/511553/14 "2009-09-26T20:29:46Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > This is what happens when you develop a culture in which the government is seen to be the source of wealth and security for all. You politicize everything. It’s amazing how this post is in no way connected to reality. You might as well say “This is what happens when you develop a culture in which the government is seen to be run by the Easter Bunny.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-eliminate-eliminiationism/511553/15 "2009-09-26T20:30:01Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > This is what happens when you develop a culture in which the government is seen to be the source of wealth and security for all. You politicize everything. You turn people against each other as they squabble over the spoils of government. You take what used to be private decisions and you make them public. You entangle everyone. When everyone is everyone else’s keeper, you have constant conflict. > > It’s not going to get better. It’s going to get worse. > > It takes a village to create hordes of villagers with torches and pitchforks. Of course, there have been many pogroms in social melieus where government was practically nonexistent. Ask any Jew or Mormon. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-eliminate-eliminiationism/511553/16 "2009-09-26T22:28:35Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > This is what happens when you develop a culture in which the government is seen to be the source of wealth and security for all. You politicize everything. You turn people against each other as they squabble over the spoils of government. You take what used to be private decisions and you make them public. You entangle everyone. When everyone is everyone else’s keeper, you have constant conflict. > > It’s not going to get better. It’s going to get worse. > > It takes a village to create hordes of villagers with torches and pitchforks. I think our system of government can deal with people squabbling over the spoils of government. We have a very nice court system that has so far been a good way for the public to settle disputes nonviolently. We also have things like free speech and other protections designed to give everyone equal access to the political process. So that people can change government policies peacefully and nonviolently. I guess you forgot about all those things in order to make your sweeping statement that makes all government look evil. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-eliminate-eliminiationism/511553/17 "2009-09-26T22:33:51Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > It’s amazing how this post is in no way connected to reality. You might as well say “This is what happens when you develop a culture in which the government is seen to be run by the Easter Bunny.” Harsh, dude. What did Eastopia do to you? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-eliminate-eliminiationism/511553/18 "2009-09-27T02:25:40Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Harsh, dude. What did Eastopia do to you? Are you kidding? We have always been at war with Eastopia. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-eliminate-eliminiationism/511553/19 "2009-09-28T15:07:03Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Harsh, dude. What did Eastopia do to you? :mad: [They’re haretics!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_Easter_Special) ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-eliminate-eliminiationism/511553/20 "2009-09-28T19:20:42Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > Did you read the OP? Specifically this part: Yeah I read it. I also know that irony is a poor substitute for actual debate. Eliminationism fits the Reps to a T. It does not fit the Dems or liberals. Eliminate the Reps, and eliminationism should be under control. With all of the hateful rhetoric coming exclusively from the right, its hard to make a sane case that liberals have anything to do with the kind of evil the Reps have been causing over the last few years [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-eliminate-eliminiationism/511553.md?page=2)