# How can we help the SDMB? (aka "think of the hamsters!") **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [September 26, 2002, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-help-the-sdmb-aka-think-of-the-hamsters/129691 "2002-09-26T06:37:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-help-the-sdmb-aka-think-of-the-hamsters/129691/22 "2002-09-27T12:21:19Z")
With all due respect, **Irishman** , how long should we shut up and wait? ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-help-the-sdmb-aka-think-of-the-hamsters/129691/23 "2002-09-27T13:35:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RTFirefly \* > I can’t read Ed Zotti’s mind, but my understanding is that the SD administration is aware of the effect that it would have on the board to require all posters to pay for the privilege, and that there’s little likelihood of that happening. OTOH, there’s some logic for placing some ceiling on the number of posts one could make in a year (500 posts? 1000 posts?) without paying, if the software allows that. I wasn’t suggesting it as a good idea, I was saying it was a possible outcome. Whatever they decide is how it’ll be, but I’m not so sure that tying the number of posts to the amount paid is a good idea. This would mean that people who post a lot in MPSIMS and those who post a lot in GD would be charged the same amount - and who’s to say, really, what the value of one post is? > [@](#): > > I mentioned avatars because many boards have them, but I’m aware that they’re a big server drain. Many other things aren’t. In a [parallel discussion on Fathom](http://fff.fathom.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12183&perpage=25&pagenumber=2), **Anthracite** , who runs a board that uses vBulletin, provided me with a list of services that can be turned on and off for an entire list of people with just a couple of clicks: Most of these things are much less server-intense than avatars. That’s where I was going with the second notion. I read that discussion on Fathom, too. You could have the basic membership and a “premium” membership, and the premium members (who pay) would get all or some of those features you listed. > [@](#): > > I just hope that if it ever does come to the point where they’d like to pull the plug, they give us a chance at making it work first. I think it’s awkward that the burden of keeping the board going is on them, while the desire to do something about its problems is with us. I think they’d be perfectly happy if the place was a revenue generator. Tuba, Lynn, Ed, and the gang do a great job, and my guess is that the CR agrees. Ergo, if more cash came in, bigger faster meaner server gets built, and voila, no more problemo. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-help-the-sdmb-aka-think-of-the-hamsters/129691/24 "2002-09-27T15:16:48Z")
**dantheman** - I read you as saying requiring a membership fee to post at all would be a bad thing, and I agree. There are a number of valuable (to me, at least) posters who would not be able to post if payment was required for even the lowest level of access. Plus it would totally cut off the flow of new blood - who’s going to pay for something when they haven’t had a chance to experience its value yet? What I hear is that the board admin is sensitive to these concerns. FWIW, **Anthracite** mentioned in a followup post in the Fathom thread that avatars, sigs, and custom titles couldn’t easily be turned on and off for a list of premium members. Apparently one can put a minimum post count stipulation on these features, but that’s the only way access can be set for these features by group. I expect that takes avatars completely off the table. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > I think they’d be perfectly happy if the place was a revenue generator. Tuba, Lynn, Ed, and the gang do a great job, and my guess is that the CR agrees. Ergo, if more cash came in, bigger faster meaner server gets built, and voila, no more problemo. Despite the fact that I’ve addressed some serious questions to them, Ed and the gang very definitely have my respect. If this place can generate a revenue stream capable of financing a better server and increased bandwidth, I trust them to use most of the income for that purpose. (I can’t begrudge the CR wanting to make _some_ money off this place, should that possibility come to pass. :)) So I’m sure we’re all hoping that they come up with a plan soon that works. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-help-the-sdmb-aka-think-of-the-hamsters/129691/25 "2002-09-27T15:25:56Z")
Another issue is the actual purpose of the message board. The SD itself is dedicated to fighting ignorance, and originally the MB was created as a natural extension of that (where people could pose questions to the Cecil or to themselves). But it’s grown way past that. It’s now a huge community that discusses any number of topics, not all of which are specifically geared toward the fight against ignorance. As was mentioned, if there was a way to differentiate between the “fun” fora, like MPSIMS, CS, and IMHO, and the “serious” fora, like GD, CCC, CSR, ATMB, and GD, then maybe one could leave the serious housed on the CR server and move the fun stuff to a server housed by a member here. This would reduce the strain to the CR server while still enabling them to have a free message board. ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-help-the-sdmb-aka-think-of-the-hamsters/129691/26 "2002-09-27T16:55:02Z")
Or the Reader could possibily partner with another alternative paper in another city who could host the “fun” fora. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-help-the-sdmb-aka-think-of-the-hamsters/129691/27 "2002-09-27T18:08:10Z")
I really don’t think the Reader’s going to pass off anything to any outside agency for any reason. Of course I can’t speak for the Reader but I note that they didn’t even want us to have this board hosted elsewhere but chose to keep it in house. Please just sit tight. We’re not the most important thing the Reader has going, their focus is on putting out a paper every week, we’re not a profit center, we’re not likely to be anytime soon and we are at best a side issue for them. But they have not forgotten us. your humble TubaDiva Administrator ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-help-the-sdmb-aka-think-of-the-hamsters/129691/28 "2002-09-27T19:15:48Z")
My 2 cents, FWIWAIKINWAD: I like the idea of having it split into two boards: #1: ATMB, COCC, COSR, GQ, GD. #2: ATMB, IMHO, CS, MPSIMS, BBQ. #1 would remain fee-free, #2 would have some sort of fee system implemented. Happy ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-help-the-sdmb-aka-think-of-the-hamsters/129691/29 "2002-09-27T20:54:42Z")
Tuba, I’ve never seen the column in print, but doesn’t it usually appear in free publications? Maybe that won’t last forever - if the paper gets its revenue only from advertisements and not from subscriptions, at some point it may not make enough money from ads to pay its columnists. Granted, the paper might then charge for subscriptions, but it might also fold. I bring this up because it might be in the Reader’s best interests financially to get outside help, even if they’d really prefer not to. The Reader might not think of the MB as a revenue generator, but perhaps it’ll need that as cash someday, and it wouldn’t be a bad idea to explore opportunities beyond the shirts and mugs. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-help-the-sdmb-aka-think-of-the-hamsters/129691/30 "2002-09-27T21:34:06Z")
The Reader is a free paper. They derive their income from advertising, classified ads and the other features they offer, such as the personals. Simply because a paper is given away for no charge does not mean it doesn’t generate revenue. I didn’t say they weren’t interested in making a dime off the Dope, I said it was far from the first thing they think of. Tail don’t wag the dog. your humble TubaDiva Administrator ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-help-the-sdmb-aka-think-of-the-hamsters/129691/31 "2002-09-27T21:40:30Z")
Oh, I know it generates revenue of some sort - it couldn’t operate otherwise. I’m just saying it might not be a bad idea to consider alternatives. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-help-the-sdmb-aka-think-of-the-hamsters/129691/32 "2002-09-27T21:41:04Z")
One thing that might be really useful is for the Reader’s marketing staff to equip members here (perhaps in an ATMB post) with a model letter that can be used to suggest buying the Straight Dope column to local newspapers of the sort that might find it amenable. (Obviously the Baptist Reporter won’t think it’s a good idea.) For example, here in Raleigh, the _Spectator_ carried it for about six months, and has recently closed down. A dozen or so of us writing to the _Independent Weekly_ might rattle their chains enough to persuade them there’s interest in it. Highlighting the list of papers that carry the column on the website – I found it once but can’t now – and encouraging people to read, buy, advertise in, etc. – and letting the papers know they’re getting free ads to over 25,000 committed Web viewers (can **jdavis** produce a working number of discrete hits on this site?) might also be a valuable tool for them. That would strike me as two low-cost/low-maintenance ways in which the site could become valuable as an income center for the Reader. Finally, since the Reader maintains non-exclusive copyright over the contents, I have a hunch that a column of those wonderful quips (“That would make a good sig line” material) that are not so context-specific as to not make sense outside the thread would be excellent copy – and syndicable as well? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2002, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-help-the-sdmb-aka-think-of-the-hamsters/129691/33 "2002-09-28T00:41:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TubaDiva \* > I really don’t think the Reader’s going to pass off anything to any outside agency for any reason. You wouldn’t have any idea as to why, would you, Tuba? > [@](#): > > Please just sit tight. We’re not the most important thing the Reader has going, their focus is on putting out a paper every week, we’re not a profit center, we’re not likely to be anytime soon and we are at best a side issue for them. But they have not forgotten us. We’ve [been](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=942576#post942576) sitting tight, of course. But I guess we’ll continue to do so. ---
**Author:** ![jacksen9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jacksen9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacksen9)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2002, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-help-the-sdmb-aka-think-of-the-hamsters/129691/34 "2002-09-28T22:29:32Z")
I wish the plan would be implemented quickly. It seems we have had a lot of down time lately. Absence makes the heart grow fonder I suppose. Hmm… ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-help-the-sdmb-aka-think-of-the-hamsters/129691/35 "2002-09-29T02:20:52Z")
Sure, but at the same time there’s no sense in we natives getting restless. The CR has its own timeline for this endeavor, and no amount of discussion here will push them to get it done any quicker, outages or no. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-help-the-sdmb-aka-think-of-the-hamsters/129691/36 "2002-09-29T03:40:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RTFirefly \* > **You wouldn’t have any idea as to why, would you, Tuba?** Why wouldn’t NBC let CBS air Friends every other week? The Reader knows that they have several thousand people thoroughly addicted to their product, to the point that we’re literally trying to throw money at them. “More,” we cry, “more!” They just need to find the time to work out something so that they won’t be slammed in tazxes, or whatever. And of course, this is all MHO and purely speculative. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-help-the-sdmb-aka-think-of-the-hamsters/129691/37 "2002-09-29T03:53:19Z")
NBC wouldn’t let CBS air Friends because over overexposure and because they wouldn’t receive any of the added advertisement revenue such a broadcast network would generate. When they negotiate contracts with syndicated stations, they get a much lower flat rate than they would if the same shows were broadcast on one of the “big” networks. What RT is saying is that a nonprofit could maintain the site (or parts of it) for a nominal fee, to be paid by the members. The CR wouldn’t lose out, because their name would still be plastered all over the thing. They wouldn’t get the nominal fee, but I can’t imagine it would be a large amount. Of course, this is all speculation, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-help-the-sdmb-aka-think-of-the-hamsters/129691/38 "2002-09-29T18:58:13Z")
You can speculate all you like but I think it’s more than a bit arrogant to try to tell a company what they should do with their assets. Just my opinion. But perhaps I see things from a different perspective. Mostly I’m grateful to the Reader, they could have just dropped the whole idea when AOL cancelled the Straight Dope contract, they didn’t have to give us house room, they didn’t have to do any of what they’ve given us. It’s all been a grand experiment on their part and I’m thankful they’ve done so. your humble TubaDiva ---
**Author:** ![JfMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@JfMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JfMen)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-help-the-sdmb-aka-think-of-the-hamsters/129691/39 "2002-09-29T19:21:26Z")
A simple one line change could make it a revenue stream. Have the SD banner at the top of every page take you to Cecil’s Book and coffeecup page instead of looping back to the forum. Every new user must hit that button at some point, and most new users are Cecil fans. It’s so easy a change there’s no harm in asking. There’s no down side. ---
**Author:** ![Melandry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Melandry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melandry)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-help-the-sdmb-aka-think-of-the-hamsters/129691/40 "2002-09-29T21:24:05Z")
Umm…I’ve never clicked on the banner. Why would I, with the convenient drop down menus to navigate the board with? ---
**Author:** ![Member\_10K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Member\_10K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Member_10K)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-help-the-sdmb-aka-think-of-the-hamsters/129691/41 "2002-09-30T03:30:53Z")
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