# How can we know if a racist changed and how long is the statute of limitations for a racist past? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 13, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-know-if-a-racist-changed-and-how-long-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for-a-racist-past/754714 "2016-05-13T21:14:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-know-if-a-racist-changed-and-how-long-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for-a-racist-past/754714/41 "2016-05-16T15:13:05Z")
> [@Commodore](#): > > Racist is one thing and racial prejudice is totally another thing. Explain the difference please. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-know-if-a-racist-changed-and-how-long-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for-a-racist-past/754714/42 "2016-05-16T15:14:51Z")
> [@Commodore](#): > > There is noting wrong with a abo being proud of his race and I hope he is proud of being one. and if that makes me a racist fine ! but I am not racial prejudice, because I understand, a prejudice person does not understand. Nobody said anything about being proud of your race though. You can be proud of your race and not a racist. Or you can be proud of your race and be a racist. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-know-if-a-racist-changed-and-how-long-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for-a-racist-past/754714/43 "2016-05-16T15:56:57Z")
> [@DaphneBlack](#): > > Well, that’s a unique take on communication in e English language. > > The Nazis were the racists… You know that, right? It doesn’t do your argument any good to suggest that non-racists are the ones being like the Nazis. > > Using a term like “part breed” is really gross. Do people like myself with mixed ethnic heritage not have a right to be a part of society? Our new acquaintance also believes that sexual deviants (his term) should be executed and the unfit (also his term) prevented from breeding. So yeah, I suspect his ideal society does not include cross-breeding, as it were. We must protect the national gene pool or civilization will collapse! As history shows… ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-know-if-a-racist-changed-and-how-long-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for-a-racist-past/754714/44 "2016-05-16T16:20:21Z")
> [@DaphneBlack](#): > > The Nazis were the racists… You know that, right? It doesn’t do your argument any good to suggest that non-racists are the ones being like the Nazis. It’s even weirder because the band Skrewdriver mentioned as part of the controversy in the OP is a neo-Nazi band. I don’t mean in the metaphorical sense, I mean their fans like to pose giving the Nazi salute in front of Nazi flags, and they have songs directly and indirectly praising actual members of the Nazi party. I suspect a number of people in this thread aren’t really familiar with them, so: Take a look at the pics in the article: [NF & KKK lynched black people in effigy in Swansea - UK Indymedia](https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/03/507472.html?c=on) Or the lyrics of one of their hits [Forty Six Years lyrics by Skrewdriver - original song full text. Official Forty Six Years lyrics, 2024 version | LyricsMode.com](http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/s/skrewdriver/forty_six_years.html) > [@](#): > > They tried to break him with their corrupt ways > Offered freedom until the end of his days > They wanted him to denounce the Fuhrer > But his devotion was always true > > And now he’s dead, Rudolph Hess is free > He’s paid the price for his loyalty > A man who left a son and a wife > We won’t forget his sacrifice ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-know-if-a-racist-changed-and-how-long-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for-a-racist-past/754714/45 "2016-05-16T16:42:14Z")
> [@Commodore](#): > > . . . Abo’s . . . Please do not use ethnic slurs to identify groups on the SDMB. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-know-if-a-racist-changed-and-how-long-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for-a-racist-past/754714/46 "2016-05-16T16:45:43Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > You say this like it’s just weird not to hang out with people you know are racists. No. I say it like it is not weird that, happening to know racists, a person does not treat them like 1st century lepers, avoiding all possible contact with them. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-know-if-a-racist-changed-and-how-long-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for-a-racist-past/754714/47 "2016-05-16T16:48:54Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > No. I say it like it is not weird that, happening to know racists, a person does not treat them like 1st century lepers, avoiding all possible contact with them. Choosing not to socialize with racists is hardly treating them like 1st century lepers. It would, of course, greatly threaten the institution of the extended family dinner. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-know-if-a-racist-changed-and-how-long-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for-a-racist-past/754714/48 "2016-05-16T16:50:53Z")
> [@Commodore](#): > > I do say that Political Correctness came from the Nazi’s and the Communist as that is what they use to control the people or to brainwash them with such crap. You are wrong. Every society has had certain taboo expressions, often attempting to marginalize smaller groups within those societies. Most of what the political Right moans against as Political Correctness is just the effort of society to correct previous taboos. There are examples of actual PC nonsense, but they are far less prevalent than the hate speech against which it is directed. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-know-if-a-racist-changed-and-how-long-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for-a-racist-past/754714/49 "2016-05-16T17:02:04Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > Choosing not to socialize with racists is hardly treating them like 1st century lepers. It would, of course, greatly threaten the institution of the extended family dinner. Really? So, you do not uninvite family members to weddings, funerals, or even Christmas dinner, simply because they are racist? How often do you quit a club or a sports team because you discover that one or more member is racist? How often do you refuse to work with someone at your company because they are racist? And, do you take the same actions regarding a person who displays sexist behavior? How about immoral behavior? (For various values of immoral.) I do not go out of my way to make deep friendships with people whose world view so differs from my own, but you appear to suggest that they should, indeed be treated as lepers–and there are far more racists in our world than there ever were lepers, so that is going to be a difficult action to take. And, once I have become friendly to an overt racist, I will do nothing to encourage them to express their racism, but at a party of former co-workers, I am more likely to follow the example of Jesus than I am to follow the example of Georgian or Victorian gentry. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-know-if-a-racist-changed-and-how-long-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for-a-racist-past/754714/50 "2016-05-16T17:15:30Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Really? So, you do not uninvite family members to weddings, funerals, or even Christmas dinner, simply because they are racist? How often do you quit a club or a sports team because you discover that one or more member is racist? How often do you refuse to work with someone at your company because they are racist? > > And, do you take the same actions regarding a person who displays sexist behavior? How about immoral behavior? (For various values of immoral.) > > I do not go out of my way to make deep friendships with people whose world view so differs from my own, but you appear to suggest that they should, indeed be treated as lepers–and there are far more racists in our world than there ever were lepers, so that is going to be a difficult action to take. > > And, once I have become friendly to an overt racist, I will do nothing to encourage them to express their racism, but at a party of former co-workers, I am more likely to follow the example of Jesus than I am to follow the example of Georgian or Victorian gentry. This is what you got out of my post, eh? Well, you’re a mod, and clearly a bit over-caffeinated, so I’m just going to back out slowly. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-know-if-a-racist-changed-and-how-long-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for-a-racist-past/754714/51 "2016-05-16T17:32:07Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > This is what you got out of my post, eh? Well, you’re a mod, and clearly a bit over-caffeinated, so I’m just going to back out slowly. That was what I got from your response to my earlier post. Did you mean something different? (I’m not sure what my Mod status has to do with anything; I am not in the habit of smacking posters who disagree with me.) ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-know-if-a-racist-changed-and-how-long-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for-a-racist-past/754714/52 "2016-05-16T17:44:10Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > That was what I got from your response to my earlier post. Did you mean something different? > > (I’m not sure what my Mod status has to do with anything; I am not in the habit of smacking posters who disagree with me.) Okay, more seriously, then. Of course I don’t shun people who may be or certainly are racist in my family, workplace, or community groups. Hell, I don’t claim to be free of racism myself. How could I be? I relate to the usual people in the usual ways. Heck, I even like quite a few of them. Love some of them–that’s the extended family dinner. I simply don’t cultivate close friendships among people who are blithely and unapologetically racist, sexist, or homophobic. This doesn’t strike me as a personal flaw in need of correction. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-know-if-a-racist-changed-and-how-long-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for-a-racist-past/754714/53 "2016-05-16T18:17:09Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I would reverse Czarcasm’s question. Can anyone point to actual racist comments he has posted in the last ten years? I agree here. The social statute of limitations for racism, whatever it “should” be, is likely less than 30 years for the overwhelming majority of people. As such, if it were below that amount, I think the onus is on the person to prove he’s changed, but over it, it’s on those who think he hasn’t to prove it. I think virtually all of us have had opinions that, for lack of a better term, we’re ashamed of now. Here it’s racism, but for others, it could be religious views, political views, or it could be changes in our social circle or activities or just something fairly innocuous like tastes in music, film, or literature. I forget where I heard it, but someone once said that if you can’t look back at who you were a year, or five years, or ten years ago and see those changes in opinion, you haven’t grown as a person. Frankly, I’m not ashamed of my past opinions that I no longer hold, because they’re signs of how far I’ve come. Admittedly, I never held one like racism, but at the same time, if he has changed his views, then he’s no longer that person. And as far as views go, I think the proper atonement is simply being a better person as a result of that change. The need for “atonement”, I think, is more dependent upon what actions one’s views compelled one to take and one’s relationship with oneself and others. That is, first, one has to be able to live with oneself, regardless of where society’s bar is, one should start with making sure one feels in balance for the harm those views caused. At that point, it’s a matter of seeing where the bars are for the people one wants to relate to. For some, their own standards may be so high that their personal atonement will suffice for most others. And for some others still, a stigma of a past view can never be undone. The problem here is for someone in a public facing sort of job. I think most people will probably recognize that he claims to have given it up 30 years ago, hasn’t really shown anything against that since then, and will let it go, but it’s going to be those people who require ridiculous or impossible feats that will be the loud ones and he and the company have to manage that press. > [@](#): > > I mean, I have met and associated with any number of people who are racist over the years. I met some at work; I met some at other community events; I met some because our kids were involved in the same schools or clubs. I do not encourage their behavior. I did not allow them to push their messages of hatred on my kids. I made it clear that their particular brand of hateful nonsense was not welcome in my presence. But I also found that when I could keep the conversation away from race, they were often otherwise nice people. I do not choose to invite them into my home, but if I was in a social situation–a bar, a party at someone else’s house, a community picnic–I would not make real efforts to avoid being photographed with them. I would even engage in social interaction as long as they did not engage in racist polemics. I can think of a couple of guys with whom I worked many years ago who I would be delighted to see, again. This as well. Again, don’t think I know anyone that is all white-supremacist, but certainly we all know people with varying degrees of sexism, racism, or other prejudices. If I held everyone to the same standards I have now, I’d have few people in my life, and even less if they reciprocated. I think my views have generally evolved for the better (otherwise, why would I have them, right?) but just because I’m where I am in some place doesn’t mean I’m better in all places; in fact, I’m pretty sure I’m not. I’m sure for a tiny bit of whatever random prejudices they have they will bug me, I have some I might not even be completely aware of and they deal with for me. I’m not doing anything to better their lives, my life, or the world by cutting people out like that, especially if we can get along just fine in so many other ways. In fact, I think keeping those sorts of people in my life, I’ve been a positive influence in improving those sorts of views, and some of them have helped evolve my views too. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-know-if-a-racist-changed-and-how-long-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for-a-racist-past/754714/54 "2016-05-16T18:47:33Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > That was what I got from your response to my earlier post. Did you mean something different? > > (I’m not sure what my Mod status has to do with anything; I am not in the habit of smacking posters who disagree with me.) Hmmmm. ---
**Author:** ![Doyle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doyle/32/439_2.png) [@Doyle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doyle)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-know-if-a-racist-changed-and-how-long-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for-a-racist-past/754714/55 "2016-05-16T19:07:19Z")
I’m a recovering racists. Just like a recovering alcoholic. Don’t want to be one, shouldn’t be one, but those thoughts always creep into my mind. Born and raised in an environment where it was very common. Didn’t hear my father use any other word but the “N” to describe African Americans. I am friends with blacks, invite them to our house, play golf with them, but losing 30 years of indoctrination isn’t such an easy thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-know-if-a-racist-changed-and-how-long-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for-a-racist-past/754714/56 "2016-05-16T19:16:01Z")
> [@Doyle](#): > > I’m a recovering racists. Just like a recovering alcoholic. Don’t want to be one, shouldn’t be one, but those thoughts always creep into my mind. Born and raised in an environment where it was very common. Didn’t hear my father use any other word but the “N” to describe African Americans. I am friends with blacks, invite them to our house, play golf with them, but losing 30 years of indoctrination isn’t such an easy thing to do. Good for you for recognizing this and striving to overcome it. It’s a positive and worthy goal. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-know-if-a-racist-changed-and-how-long-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for-a-racist-past/754714/57 "2016-05-16T19:21:41Z")
> [@Doyle](#): > > I’m a recovering racists. Just like a recovering alcoholic. Don’t want to be one, shouldn’t be one, but those thoughts always creep into my mind. Born and raised in an environment where it was very common. Didn’t hear my father use any other word but the “N” to describe African Americans. I am friends with blacks, invite them to our house, play golf with them, but losing 30 years of indoctrination isn’t such an easy thing to do. I think all of us (in the US. I’ll limit it to here) have been indoctrinated, in both overt and subtle ways. Trying to recognize it and combat it isn’t just half the battle, it is the battle. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-know-if-a-racist-changed-and-how-long-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for-a-racist-past/754714/58 "2016-05-16T19:22:22Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > I simply don’t cultivate close friendships among people who are blithely and unapologetically racist, sexist, or homophobic. This doesn’t strike me as a personal flaw in need of correction. I also think there’s a pretty big gap between hanging out with someone who was in a band that has songs that literally praise Nazi party members and that did fund-raisers for neo-nazi groups; that is a little bit past ‘I don’t make a scene with that one racist jerk from work’. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-know-if-a-racist-changed-and-how-long-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for-a-racist-past/754714/59 "2016-05-16T19:33:10Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Really? So, you do not uninvite family members to weddings, funerals, or even Christmas dinner, simply because they are racist? How often do you quit a club or a sports team because you discover that one or more member is racist? How often do you refuse to work with someone at your company because they are racist? Jesus Christ, **tom** , we’re not talking about Uncle Jack who starts bitching about the Mexicans when he’s had a few at Thanksgiving. We’re talking about _actual Nazi skinheads_. God help me, _celebrity_ Nazi skinheads. Yeah, if I had a cousin who liked showing off all his swastika tattoos, that fucker would not be invited to Easter anymore. Pretty sure he’d never get past HR at my current job, either. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-know-if-a-racist-changed-and-how-long-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for-a-racist-past/754714/60 "2016-05-16T19:53:45Z")
Ugh, editing fail on the last post. I also think there’s a pretty big gap between hanging out with ‘someone who’s kind of racist but mostly doesn’t talk about it’ and ‘someone who was in a band that has songs that literally praise Nazi party members and call for racial cleansing and that did fund-raisers for neo-nazi groups’; that is a little bit past ‘I don’t make a scene with that one racist jerk from work’. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-know-if-a-racist-changed-and-how-long-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for-a-racist-past/754714.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-know-if-a-racist-changed-and-how-long-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for-a-racist-past/754714.md?page=4)