# How Can We Reduce the Great Pacific Garbage Patch?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-reduce-the-great-pacific-garbage-patch/779832
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [February 14, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-reduce-the-great-pacific-garbage-patch/779832 "2017-02-14T17:45:15Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-reduce-the-great-pacific-garbage-patch/779832/1 "2017-02-14T17:45:15Z")
In 1997, a sailor (since turned oceanographer and campaigner), Charles Moore, was traversing the ocean between Hawaii and California when he came across the now infamous Great Pacific Garbage Patch, one of the five main subtropical gyres (circulating systems of ocean currents that draw floating debris into a kind of massive junk vortex).
Ever since its discovery, there has been vigorous debate over the size of the patch, with descriptions ranging from “the size of Texas” to “twice that of France”. It is, in fact, impossible to definitively measure, because its size – and litter visible on the surface – changes with currents and winds, but its heart is thought to be around 1m sq km, with the periphery spanning a further 3.5m sq km, stretching roughly from the west coast of North America to Japan. An aerial survey last year by Dutch foundation The Ocean Cleanup found it is far bigger than previously estimated, while the UN’s environmental programme warns it is growing so fast that it is now visible from space.
Could it be hoovered up? Excluding the monetary costs, would it be possible for trawlers and ships to collect a majority of this? Also how would the detritus be contained and stored? And how could all of that, if possible, be financed?
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### Author:  [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-reduce-the-great-pacific-garbage-patch/779832/2 "2017-02-14T17:51:36Z")
Keep in mind, there’s not much that can be hoovered up.
> **[Great Pacific garbage patch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_garbage_patch)**
>
> The Great Pacific garbage patch (also Pacific trash vortex and North Pacific garbage patch) is a garbage patch, a gyre of marine debris particles, in the central North Pacific Ocean. It is located roughly from 135°W to 155°W and 35°N to 42°N. The collection of plastic and floating trash originates from the Pacific Rim, including countries in Asia, North America, and South America.
> Despite the common public perception of the patch existing as giant islands of floating garbage, its low density (...
> [@](#):
>
> The patch is characterized by exceptionally high relative concentrations of pelagic plastics, chemical sludge and other debris that have been trapped by the currents of the North Pacific Gyre. Its low density (4 particles per cubic meter) prevents detection by satellite photography, or even by casual boaters or divers in the area. It consists primarily of a small increase in suspended, often microscopic, particles in the upper water column.
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### Author:  [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-reduce-the-great-pacific-garbage-patch/779832/3 "2017-02-14T17:56:49Z")
[Previous thread on the subject, from 2009.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=513655)
Collecting it is not feasible. The average density is very low, a few milligrams of garbage per square meter of ocean surface area. Combine that with the wide spread, and the very limited width of the swath that any boat could skim, and your collector boats will end up having to cruise for millions of kilometers to make any significant dent; the air pollution they would release from their stacks would probably more than offset the stuff they collect.
Best bet for reduction is to stop dumping garbage into the ocean.
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### Author:  [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-reduce-the-great-pacific-garbage-patch/779832/4 "2017-02-14T18:55:35Z")
> [@Telemark](#):
>
> Keep in mind, there’s not much that can be hoovered up.
This. Not to minimize its significance and the problems it represents, but it’s much more a sea of dirty water than anything like a floating garbage dump.
Massive extraction ships or platforms, sort of like mechanized baleen whales filtering out the particles, is probably about the only solution. Possibly coupled with bio-safe clumping agents.
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### Author:  [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-reduce-the-great-pacific-garbage-patch/779832/5 "2017-02-14T21:22:34Z")
I keep reading there is bacteria that will eat plastic. Does anyone know if it could be harnessed to solve this problem?
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### Author:  [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2017, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-reduce-the-great-pacific-garbage-patch/779832/6 "2017-02-14T21:38:29Z")
Am I stating the obvious … this is quite well known now. An awful lot of the plastics come out f Asian rivers, it seems - this is an interesting approach:
> **[Dutch prototype clean-up boom brings Pacific plastics solution a step closer](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/22/dutch-prototype-clean-up-boom-brings-pacific-plastics-solution-a-step-closer)**
>
> If tests of the 100 metre-long barrier that collects rubbish on the sea’s surface are successful, it could be deployed at a larger scale in the ‘great Pacific garbage patch’
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### Author:  [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-reduce-the-great-pacific-garbage-patch/779832/7 "2017-02-15T01:53:22Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#):
>
> I keep reading there is bacteria that will eat plastic. Does anyone know if it could be harnessed to solve this problem?
Could breed a strain of this that lives only in ocean waters, and eats the plastic garbage. Bacteria that would then serve as food for plankton, which would be eaten by fish & whales, etc.
But might be some really serious side effects, if such bacteria were to get loose worldwide. Imagine if a plastic-eating strain of bacteria were to get loose in your house? Everything from the insulation on the electrical wires inside your walls, the dishes in the kitchen cupboards – even the keyboard used for SDMB would go away!
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2017, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-reduce-the-great-pacific-garbage-patch/779832/8 "2017-02-15T03:43:38Z")
Science fiction writers did this [40+ years ago](http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=1663).
> [@](#):
>
> A tiny organism appears to have been brought back from the region of space nearest the Earth.
> “the organism…Mutated to a noninfectious form. And perhaps it is still mutating. Now it is no longer directly harmful to man, but it eats rubber gaskets.”
>
> “The airplane.”
>
> Hall nodded. “National guardsmen could be on the ground, and not be harmed. But the pilot had his aircraft destroyed because the plastic was dissolved before his eyes.”
> From The Andromeda Strain, by Michael Crichton.
> Published by Alfred A. Knopf in 1969
>
> Here’s what it’s like when bacteria eats plastic unexpectedly.
>
> ```
> ...the post team had heard transcripts of the flight transmission between the Phantom [jet] and Topeka Central. For the most part it was dull, except for the final moments before the pilot crashed.
>
> The pilot had said: "Something is wrong."
>
> And then, a moment later, "My rubber air hose is dissolving. It must be the vibration. It's just disintegrating into dust... Everything made of rubber in the cockpit is dissolving."
>
> ```
>
> A similar scenario forms the basis for the 1971 novel Mutant 59: The Plastic Eaters by Gerry Davis and Kit Pedler:
>
> ```
> "In the shaft leading to the [ventilation] grille a mindless, groping mass of malodorous corruption was thrusting its way silently towards the surface. Buoyed up by bubbling foam it steadily rose. Single units in an obscene abrogation of normal order divided and made two. Two became four and four, eight. Endlessly supplied with food, each unit absorbed nutrient and in a soft, ancient certainty fulfilled its only purpose - to multiply, to extend and to multiply...
>
> "In the Coburg Street control room of the London Underground system,there was a full emergency... In a dozen tunnels, trains ground down to a halt. Hordes of terrified commuters made their way anxiously along dark, musty tunnels to the lights and safety of the next station. There were minor explosions, fires, and the failure of a million wires andcables. As the dissolution of plastic proceeded and accelerated in rate,the elegant order of the system gradually turned into complete chaos.
>
> "On the surface, in the freezing December air, the smell of the rotting plastic began to hang permanently in the air. A cloying, wet, rotting smell similar to the smell of long-dead flesh. It filled streets , basements and factories. Traffic lights failed, causing irresolvable jams.... The breakdown of plastic spread into BroadcastingHouse.... A gas main with polypropylene seals on its pressure regulatorserupted into flame.... Plastic cold-water pipes softened, ballooned, andburst, flooding into shops, homes, and restaurants.
>
> "Slowly and inexorably, the rate of dissolution increased; failures occurred in increasing succession until, within forty-eight hours, the centre of London had become a freezing chaos without light, heat, or communication."
>
> ```
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### Author:  [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2017, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-reduce-the-great-pacific-garbage-patch/779832/9 "2017-02-15T15:38:30Z")
**Newly discovered bacteria can eat plastic bottles**
Now worries. The Japanese are on top of this problem.
> **[Newly discovered bacteria can eat plastic bottles](https://phys.org/news/2016-03-newly-bacteria-plastic-bottles.html)**
>
> A team of Japanese scientists has found a species of bacteria that eats the type of plastic found in most disposable water bottles.
“Mincer said the study was impressive and did a good job showing that these organisms were eating the plastic pretty well. However, he said it was not immediately clear whether or not it would help keep plastics out of the ocean, for example.”
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### Author:  [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-reduce-the-great-pacific-garbage-patch/779832/10 "2017-02-15T16:09:59Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#):
>
> Science fiction writers did this [40+ years ago](http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=1663).
Beat me to both. I didn’t know anyone else had ever \*seen \*the latter book.
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### Author:  [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2017, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-reduce-the-great-pacific-garbage-patch/779832/11 "2017-02-15T16:16:59Z")
Why not use floating water filters to filter out the crap. The filters would naturally float to where the concentration of crap is highest and filter the water. Make them solar powered (so what if they only work on sunny days); sturdy to survive bad weather and put a GPS on them.
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### Author:  [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-reduce-the-great-pacific-garbage-patch/779832/12 "2017-02-15T16:26:52Z")
[https://phys.org/news/2016-03-newly-...c-bottles.html](https://phys.org/news/2016-03-newly-...c-bottles.html)
I wish the article had mentioned what by product is created when these bacteria eat plastic. Is it something worth harvesting?
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2017, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-reduce-the-great-pacific-garbage-patch/779832/13 "2017-02-15T16:32:29Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#):
>
> Why not use floating water filters to filter out the crap. The filters would naturally float to where the concentration of crap is highest and filter the water. Make them solar powered (so what if they only work on sunny days); sturdy to survive bad weather and put a GPS on them.
Molecular-scale water filters? And who maintains them? Filters doing their jobs need to be changed or flushed when they’re full of filtered material.
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### Author:  [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-reduce-the-great-pacific-garbage-patch/779832/14 "2017-02-15T16:38:24Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#):
>
> Why not use floating water filters to filter out the crap. The filters would naturally float to where the concentration of crap is highest and filter the water. Make them solar powered (so what if they only work on sunny days); sturdy to survive bad weather and put a GPS on them.
So, what exactly _is_ a floating solar powered particulate water filter? How many millions of them would you need, and how would you keep them from killing of marine life themselves? And why would they need to be powered?
The problem with complex problems is that they tend to [not have](http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/06/02/next-step-space-based-lasers-that-will-disintegrate-the-junk/) [easy solutions](http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2017/01/08/whatever-happened-to-boyan-slats-test/).
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### Author:  [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-reduce-the-great-pacific-garbage-patch/779832/15 "2017-02-15T19:35:15Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#):
>
> Why not use floating water filters to filter out the crap. The filters would naturally float to where the concentration of crap is highest and filter the water. Make them solar powered (so what if they only work on sunny days); sturdy to survive bad weather and put a GPS on them.
Several problems:
-We are talking about several MILLION square miles of ocean. It’s good that you said “filters” instead of “filter,” but the plural by itself doesn’t quite convey the scale of implementation that would be required. The devices you propose would need to be massive in number to even make a dent in the problem.
-the garbage is very, very dispersed. [According to Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_garbage_patch#Discovery), we’re talking about 5.1 kilograms per square kilometer of ocean surface; each unit will have to filter a tremendous amount of water to collect even a trifling amount of junk.
-The ocean is really, really hard on man-made things. Ships need constant maintenance due to the aging effects of sun and salt water and the accumulation of marine life on underwater surfaces. Your unattended filters will soon be shredded by wind and waves and clogged with biomass.
You could spend billions of dollars on this solution, and the result would probably be regarded as a failure.
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### Author:  [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2017, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-reduce-the-great-pacific-garbage-patch/779832/16 "2017-02-16T12:54:09Z")
Start with the immense number of filters needed and their having to be composed of lightweight, cheap materials (i.e., plastic). Throw in losing many of them and damage to them and you’re basically adding to the problem. Not subtracting.
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### Author:  [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2017, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-reduce-the-great-pacific-garbage-patch/779832/17 "2017-02-16T13:01:39Z")
Start by not making it worse. A nightmare of control in itself, but if we can find a way to stoop adding to it, that’s a start.
After that, it may actually resolve itself in a manner of speaking - that is, drop out of suspension and become entombed in the sea floor, or become sequestered by any number of other processes.
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### Author:  [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2017, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-reduce-the-great-pacific-garbage-patch/779832/18 "2017-02-16T13:41:53Z")
Then there’s this Dutch kid’s science fair idea. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/a-young-man-tries-to-save-the-oceans-from-plastic-with-floating-noodle-look-alikes/2017/01/20/b234922e-dcc5-11e6-ad42-f3375f271c9c\_story.html?utm\_term=.01e949984480](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/a-young-man-tries-to-save-the-oceans-from-plastic-with-floating-noodle-look-alikes/2017/01/20/b234922e-dcc5-11e6-ad42-f3375f271c9c_story.html?utm_term=.01e949984480)
Small(ish) scale real-world prototype broke down quicker than expected - this is somewhere between “needs tweaking” and “not happening”.
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### Author:  [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2017, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-reduce-the-great-pacific-garbage-patch/779832/19 "2017-02-16T14:25:14Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#):
>
> Then there’s this Dutch kid’s science fair idea. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/a-young-man-tries-to-save-the-oceans-from-plastic-with-floating-noodle-look-alikes/2017/01/20/b234922e-dcc5-11e6-ad42-f3375f271c9c\_story.html?utm\_term=.01e949984480](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/a-young-man-tries-to-save-the-oceans-from-plastic-with-floating-noodle-look-alikes/2017/01/20/b234922e-dcc5-11e6-ad42-f3375f271c9c_story.html?utm_term=.01e949984480)
>
> Small(ish) scale real-world prototype broke down quicker than expected - this is somewhere between “needs tweaking” and “not happening”.
See links in post #14.
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### Author:  [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2017, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-reduce-the-great-pacific-garbage-patch/779832/20 "2017-02-16T18:29:52Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#):
>
> See links in post #14.
Insufficiently descriptive, so not a link I clicked. Had you mentioned the kids name, or his origin, or some other identifier, I would not have made my post.
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