# How can we trust knife fighting "experts" if most have never been in a real knife fight? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 20, 2013, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205 "2013-04-20T09:54:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/1 "2013-04-20T09:54:18Z")
In reading [this article](http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html) it made some good points. How can we trust knife fighting “experts” if most have never been in a real knife fight? Can we really trust most knife fighters techniques if most knife fight instructors (in the US at least) don’t have any real world life or death knife fight experience? ---
**Author:** ![ducati](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@ducati](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ducati)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/2 "2013-04-20T20:32:18Z")
I’m a pretty good firearms instructor. I’ve never shot anyone, although I have been shot at. I’d trust Michael Janich. [He’s been around.](http://www.martialbladeconcepts.com/) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/3 "2013-04-20T20:37:39Z")
Knife fighting experts could study known knife fights and report on what was successful even if they’re never been in a knife fight themself. Some of it is a matter of physics too. I’d have a tendency not to trust someone who has a lot of experience in actual knife fights. They’re either very bad people, or not smart enough to avoid knife fights. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/4 "2013-04-20T20:37:45Z")
> [@astro](#): > > In reading [this article](http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html) it made some good points. How can we trust knife fighting “experts” if most have never been in a real knife fight? > > Can we really trust most knife fighters techniques if most knife fight instructors (in the US at least) don’t have any real world life or death knife fight experience? Because drilling with a rubber knife still lets you know what the outcome would have been without all the blood ,screaming, and insurance paperwork.. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/5 "2013-04-20T20:44:28Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I’d have a tendency not to trust someone who has a lot of experience in actual knife fights. They’re either very bad people, or not smart enough to avoid knife fights. This. There are very few legitimate lifestyle choices that produce individuals with experience in killing people with knives. Even Delta/SAS/superninjacommando types prefer to use guns. ---
**Author:** ![wheresmymind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@wheresmymind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wheresmymind)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/6 "2013-04-20T21:21:34Z")
Man, if we can’t trust knife fighting experts, who can we trust? What is this world coming to? I weep for the children! ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/7 "2013-04-21T00:44:59Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Knife fighting experts could study known knife fights and report on what was successful even if they’re never been in a knife fight themself. Some of it is a matter of physics too. > > I’d have a tendency not to trust someone who has a lot of experience in actual knife fights. They’re either very bad people, or not smart enough to avoid knife fights. Hah! I laughed out loud! ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/8 "2013-04-21T01:32:09Z")
I have actually met Animal, the author of the linked article in the OP. He is an amazing man who grew up on the wrong side of the tracks, has been there, done that and turned his life around. If he says it, it is wise to listen. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/9 "2013-04-21T01:37:28Z")
I read once from a knife fighting expert that most knife fighting trainers teach you how to basically fight in what would be a highly illegal knife duel. But historically most experts in blade weapons get that way through rigorous training with blunted weapons and etc. The first time a knight fought on the battlefield he was still going to be pretty good at using his sword, moreso than a recently mustered man-at-arms who didn’t have his years of practice flights. He wouldn’t be the equal of a grizzled veteran, but training with blunted blade weapons can still teach you the principles… ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/10 "2013-04-21T01:58:59Z")
That is one long ass article. Interesting read but long as hell. I’m not a knife fighting master so I have no position. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/11 "2013-04-21T06:12:18Z")
> [@wheresmymind](#): > > Man, if we can’t trust knife fighting experts, who can we trust? What is this world coming to? I weep for the children! My new motto. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/12 "2013-04-21T09:50:32Z")
You can’t trust knife fighting experts really, the same way you cant trust “martial arts” instructors who have never actually put any of the techniques they teach to use. This is the weakness of non-competitive martial arts, bad techniques don’t get removed because you don’t use them to know they’re junk in practice. This isn’t anything new, with the fall of the Feudal Era in Japan, it was noted that suddenly there were CRAPLOADS of sword schools opening up and eventually peace-time samurai who didn’t know about war were also teaching swordsmanship without having ever even been in a duel. Of course, there has to be a balance between practicality (You can’t really challenge people to knife fights to the death to learn if you’re good). I have both heard some ridiculous claims from martial arts instructors, and idiotic claims and techniques from friends who took martial arts. They believed some stupidly flawed techniques would help them win fights. Simple rule is, everyone gets cut in a knife fight. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/13 "2013-04-21T10:35:13Z")
I honestly had no fucking clue knife fighting was a “thing.” I thought a “knife fight” was basically some thugs come up, overpower you, and stab you and steal your shit. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/14 "2013-04-21T10:38:49Z")
That is a real knife fight. A duel where two guys agree on mutual combat and pull their own knives at the same time happens about as often in real life as simultaneous orgasms. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/15 "2013-04-21T11:08:27Z")
> [@wheresmymind](#): > > Man, if we can’t trust knife fighting experts, who can we trust? What is this world coming to? I weep for the children! You should always trust a knife fighting expert. Because he might stab you for doubting him. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/16 "2013-04-21T12:49:34Z")
Rule #1 for a knife fight: bring a gun. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/17 "2013-04-21T12:56:42Z")
[![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4DzcOCyHDqc/hqdefault.jpg "Indiana Jones : Sword vs. Gun") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DzcOCyHDqc) ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/18 "2013-04-21T18:00:43Z")
> [@AtomicDog](#): > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DzcOCyHDqc](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DzcOCyHDqc) On the other hand: [Mythbusters on bringing a knife to a gunfight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckz7EmDxhtU). Briefly: The guy with the gun should not get cocky. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/19 "2013-04-21T18:03:24Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > I honestly had no fucking clue knife fighting was a “thing.” I thought a “knife fight” was basically some thugs come up, overpower you, and stab you and steal your shit. Haha, me too, drew. Me too. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/20 "2013-04-21T23:27:06Z")
I’m quite certain that I would wet my pants if faced with a knife fight, so all the experts in the world wouldn’t do me much good, no matter **how** trustworthy they might be. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205.md?page=2)