# How can we trust knife fighting "experts" if most have never been in a real knife fight? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 20, 2013, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205 "2013-04-20T09:54:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/21 "2013-04-22T00:04:58Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > On the other hand: [Mythbusters on bringing a knife to a gunfight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckz7EmDxhtU). > > Briefly: The guy with the gun should not get cocky. And I saw that episode, too! Well played, sir. Well played. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/22 "2013-04-22T01:05:50Z")
> [@AtomicDog](#): > > Rule #1 for a knife fight: bring a gun. Or a ballistic knife. (I’m so goddamn mad they didn’t use that joke in the “Punisher” movie!) ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/23 "2013-04-22T03:22:06Z")
Neither Angelo Dundee nor Freddie Roach ever became champion. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/24 "2013-04-22T05:53:10Z")
Whenever I tell people that you have to be farther than 20 feet for even an out of shape guy to pull a knife and stab someone before the other guy pulls his gun, and removes the safety and fires, no one EVER believes me. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/25 "2013-04-22T06:22:24Z")
That rule doesn’t always hold. The Royal Canadian Mounties practice their pistol draws at suspects who make a sudden move less than half that distance. People also don’t believe me when I say that 6 feet (toe-to-toe distance) is striking distance for a trained karate fighter. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/26 "2013-04-22T06:23:45Z")
Not sure I’d be terribly inclined to take any kind of guidance from someone who has been in dozens of knife fights. I’m 45 and I’ve never been in a single knife fight in my whole life. I’m already doing something right that an experienced knife fighter must keep getting wrong. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/27 "2013-04-22T17:04:02Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > That rule doesn’t always hold. The Royal Canadian Mounties practice their pistol draws at suspects who make a sudden move less than half that distance. > > People also don’t believe me when I say that 6 feet (toe-to-toe distance) is striking distance for a trained karate fighter. If the purpose of the exercise is to teach gun owners (not military) that their gun won’t help them in the ranges they think it will, then it might save their lives if they gain space while drawing against a knife attacker (which is counter intuitive). Also, I have never seen anyone open carry in a holster like that before, so if your gun is concealed, add another 20 feet to the “knife\>gun” range. Still though, I can’t imagine why knife-guy would even reveal his knife from 20+ feet away and do a charge like that. I’ve seen a knife fight and the guy pulled the knife from about 7 feet away and started swinging wildly, the other guy definitely would’ve gotten stabbed in the cramped space (a bus) if he had stood and pulled a gun instead of started using his advantage-being up the stairs while knife guy was down the stairs on the bus-to kick the hell out of the other guy. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/28 "2013-04-22T17:17:52Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Not sure I’d be terribly inclined to take any kind of guidance from someone who has been in dozens of knife fights. > > I’m 45 and I’ve never been in a single knife fight in my whole life. I’m already doing something right that an experienced knife fighter must keep getting wrong. It’s kind of like looking for advice from an experienced Kamikaze pilot. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/29 "2013-04-22T17:41:15Z")
Nothing is like the real thing. Unfortunately, the more a knife fighter experiences the real thing, the more likely it is that he is dead. The writer of the article is quite correct - it is rarely a knife “fight”. Usually it is a knife “attack”. But I never heard anyone who knew anything about martial arts say what the author claims is one of the lies - “it’s easy to disarm an armed opponent”. No it isn’t, and in some ways it is harder to deal with a knife-wielder than a gunman. (You can’t lock the action on a knife, for one thing.) So who do you trust? No matter who you trust, defense against a knife, or knife-fighting in general, is a high-risk proposition. And most of those who have found this out from first-hand experience are not here to talk about it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/30 "2013-04-22T21:57:38Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > It’s kind of like looking for advice from an experienced Kamikaze pilot. Or indeed, marital guidance from someone who has been in lots of different marriages. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/31 "2013-04-23T01:15:17Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > Simple rule is, everyone gets cut in a knife fight. I’ve heard that there’s two outcomes to a knife fight: the loser is dead, and the winner is bleeding profusely. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/32 "2013-04-23T02:17:24Z")
I read this article the other day and was curious to see if there were any references to Gurkha soldiers (none). Their traditional weapon is the kukri knife, and I wonder what their philosophy is for its use. Is it more of a ceremonial weapon, or do they really train with it expecting to use it? A couple of years ago a Gurkha took on about a dozen train robbers with his kukri and sent them running for their lives. I wonder about his opinion on this. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/33 "2013-04-23T02:31:14Z")
[This guy demonstrates some pretty good technique for defending against a knife weilding opponent. It seems to consist mostly of getting stabbed repeatedly.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=E61jnJe_1SI&NR=1) [This older video gives the three rules for knife fighting:](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJGyxBgf0Is) RUN! HIDE! FLY!! ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/34 "2013-04-23T02:54:59Z")
[Funny Conan knife fighting video. (talk show host…not the barbarian)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qme5l9H2UIY&NR=1&feature=endscreen) ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/35 "2013-04-23T08:17:28Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > I read this article the other day and was curious to see if there were any references to Gurkha soldiers (none). Their traditional weapon is the kukri knife, and I wonder what their philosophy is for its use. Is it more of a ceremonial weapon, or do they really train with it expecting to use it? > > A couple of years ago a Gurkha took on about a dozen train robbers with his kukri and sent them running for their lives. I wonder about his opinion on this. The issued knife has a 9 to 10-inch blade – big, but not much bigger than a Bowie knife. The gigantic machete-sized kukri you see in photos is often a ceremonial weapon, but more often a tool for chopping wood or butchering meat. And Bishnu Shrestha took on 30 train robbers, killing 3, injuring 8. The rest fled, but he was injured as well (my recollection is that he lost the use of his left hand). ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/36 "2013-04-23T15:58:40Z")
As a fun exercise in knife defense, my martial arts group did this a few times: Everyone wore white outfits and the knife attackers carried a marker pen (non-permanent ink.) The defenders were somewhat limited in that, of course, we had to be careful to not injure the attackers but it was otherwise a good exercise. It took very little time before I had marks all over my front, arms and hands. Probably not deadly cuts but the hand cuts would have been serious. Trying to kick the knife out of the hand, like in the movies, was good for a laugh. We didn’t try ‘knife’ against ‘knife.’ ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/37 "2013-04-23T18:39:35Z")
Situational awareness. Situational awareness. Situational awareness. Situational awareness. Situational awareness. And sometimes you will be surprised anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/38 "2013-04-23T18:57:19Z")
I have a very good friend who was quite adept at eskrima when he was younger (marriage, jobs, kids, etc. kinda moved it off the priority list). Using dull wooden knives or permanent markers, he killed me within seconds countless times in the back yard and I never got close to ‘cutting’ him (except for when I threw my marker at him and put a dot on his forehead). I’m confident he could have handled himself alright during te real thing. > [@TriPolar](#): > > I’d have a tendency not to trust someone who has a lot of experience in actual knife fights. They’re either very bad people, or not smart enough to avoid knife fights. You’ve GOT to use this for a sigline. I would, but I’m unworthy. > [@rogerbox](#): > > That is a real knife fight. A duel where two guys agree on mutual combat and pull their own knives at the same time happens about as often in real life as simultaneous orgasms. 😉 Must be a helluvalotta knife fighting in a small suburb of southwest Denver. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/39 "2013-04-23T19:05:52Z")
> [@AtomicDog](#): > > Rule #1 for a knife fight: bring a gun. Rules? In a knife fight? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205/40 "2013-04-23T19:42:30Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > I read this article the other day and was curious to see if there were any references to Gurkha soldiers (none). Their traditional weapon is the kukri knife, and I wonder what their philosophy is for its use. Is it more of a ceremonial weapon, or do they really train with it expecting to use it? > > A couple of years ago a Gurkha took on about a dozen train robbers with his kukri and sent them running for their lives. I wonder about his opinion on this. My understanding is that Gurkhas do train to kill using their knives. I read an account of a soldier who fought alongside Ghurka soldiers in Burma in WW2 (the author of the Flashman novels, as it turns out) and he was pretty clear that Gurkhas actually used knives in combat. But, of course, it was not “knive versus knife” combat - they were killing enemy soldiers with knives, but not in some sort of duel. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-we-trust-knife-fighting-experts-if-most-have-never-been-in-a-real-knife-fight/656205.md?page=3)